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Post by guest2 on Jun 6, 2017 3:19:46 GMT -5
Del sol is wrapping up norcecas with mesko and then will partner with kolinske for future norcecas. His main priority is trying to get points for FIVB although I dont understand why he won't do avps. Might have something to do with kolinske not signing. Getting points for the FIVB? To what end? Eventually losing in Country Quota matches?
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Post by haze on Jun 6, 2017 8:46:36 GMT -5
Del sol is wrapping up norcecas with mesko and then will partner with kolinske for future norcecas. His main priority is trying to get points for FIVB although I dont understand why he won't do avps. Might have something to do with kolinske not signing. Getting points for the FIVB? To what end? Eventually losing in Country Quota matches? With the depth us men have (or don't have), who the hell knows what players will be represented on the men's side in 5 years. Defensively, who do the men have that will be on the next level in 5 years, Taylor crabb and nobody? Who's the second best 30 under defenseman playing avp in ny? Bomgren? Eric Zaun? Del Sol is a better player than those guys. People don't realize how desperate usa is for even just young really good players right now, let alone international players.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 6, 2017 8:49:24 GMT -5
Getting points for the FIVB? To what end? Eventually losing in Country Quota matches? With the depth us men have (or don't have), who the hell knows what players will be represented on the men's side in 5 years. Defensively, who do the men have that will be on the next level in 5 years, Taylor crabb and nobody? Who's the second best 30 under defenseman playing avp in ny? Bomgren? Eric Zaun? Del Sol is a better player than those guys. People don't realize how desperate usa is for even just young really good players right now, let alone international players. So why would he hook his wagon to the NVL? He and who are beating any of the top 6 teams on the AVP?
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Post by haze on Jun 6, 2017 9:11:19 GMT -5
It's a great unknown question not to mention the top teams are all old, and over the hill defenders with the question of 1 or 2 players.
Zaun makes the move over and is probably going to be a main draw entry with ratledge in his 3rd avp tournament. Del sol is staying g on norceca and carrying john fn mesko to qualifying usa finishes. Del sol isnt even tied to the nvl. That was suposed to be marciniak who was employed by them at their base academy in florida.
That's the sad state that us beach volleyball is right now.it couldn't be more wide open for any young player under 30 to make an impact. What are the odds that in 7 years, in 2024, we could have some young kid currently playing grassroots level somewhere come in and qualify.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 6, 2017 9:29:28 GMT -5
Getting points for the FIVB? To what end? Eventually losing in Country Quota matches? With the depth us men have (or don't have), who the hell knows what players will be represented on the men's side in 5 years. Defensively, who do the men have that will be on the next level in 5 years, Taylor crabb and nobody? Who's the second best 30 under defenseman playing avp in ny? Bomgren? Eric Zaun? Del Sol is a better player than those guys. People don't realize how desperate usa is for even just young really good players right now, let alone international players. Thats a reasonable point, especially since Bomgren is 33, although he is much better than Del Sol. Frishman may be the best under 30 defender, although there is basically no one right now. I guess its smart of Del Sol to be on all the NORCECAs, the NVL thing is still confusing. I still cant see Del Sol repping the US internatonally, but that would require new players joining the tour. I didnt realize how many players I think of as sort of new or up and coming (like Bomgren, Burik, Mayer) are already old.
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Post by haze on Jun 6, 2017 9:45:25 GMT -5
I disagree with frishman but that's a different argument. Frishman and del sol are the same age. Are they international quality players right now? Probably not. But unfortunately for the usa, someone is going to have to take over the current crop of international usa players not named taylor crabb, and somoney would be incredibly stupid to say that del sol, and frishman for that matter, don't have just as much an opportunity than anyone else to be one of the 6 or so next generation of usa teams.
To a guy like Del Sol's credit, he's playing as many norcecas as he can to get points, just like Taylor crabb did in his transition and everyone else who plays on the fivb. To Del Sol's dismay, he isn't playin the avp to integrate himself with the best usa players, so he isn't doing himself any favors as far as finding a qualiy partner. One will get a beer gauge of his ability when he plays with kolinske, who has played in an fivb qualifier.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 6, 2017 10:08:19 GMT -5
I disagree with frishman but that's a different argument. Frishman and del sol are the same age. Are they international quality players right now? Probably not. But unfortunately for the usa, someone is going to have to take over the current crop of international usa players not named taylor crabb, and somoney would be incredibly stupid to say that del sol, and frishman for that matter, don't have just as much an opportunity than anyone else to be one of the 6 or so next generation of usa teams. To a guy like Del Sol's credit, he's playing as many norcecas as he can to get points, just like Taylor crabb did in his transition and everyone else who plays on the fivb. To Del Sol's dismay, he isn't playin the avp to integrate himself with the best usa players, so he isn't doing himself any favors as far as finding a qualiy partner. One will get a beer gauge of his ability when he plays with kolinske, who has played in an fivb qualifier. I didn't mean Frishman was better than Del Sol, I meant on the AVP, although I have no idea who is second, maybe the little Mckibbin? Makes it even more frustrating that 1) Tri is hurt and 2) he stupidly insists on blocking. I'll go you one further and say I don't think any of the defending dinosaurs are in their primes anymore. Casey, Hyden and Rosie are definitely past it, and Nick seems like he is at the very tail end. He still plays great defense and is very,very fast, but he makes fewer insane athletic plays than he used to and Mayer has a job now. I'd trade all of them for Aaron Russell or Taylor Sander to commit to the beach.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 6, 2017 10:20:20 GMT -5
Who is the women's favorite? A week ago I would have said Kelly/Sara, but after Brooke and Summer manhandled them I wonder. Maybe the first competitive full field women's AVP in a long time.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 6, 2017 10:20:52 GMT -5
I disagree with frishman but that's a different argument. Frishman and del sol are the same age. Are they international quality players right now? Probably not. But unfortunately for the usa, someone is going to have to take over the current crop of international usa players not named taylor crabb, and somoney would be incredibly stupid to say that del sol, and frishman for that matter, don't have just as much an opportunity than anyone else to be one of the 6 or so next generation of usa teams. To a guy like Del Sol's credit, he's playing as many norcecas as he can to get points, just like Taylor crabb did in his transition and everyone else who plays on the fivb. To Del Sol's dismay, he isn't playin the avp to integrate himself with the best usa players, so he isn't doing himself any favors as far as finding a qualiy partner. One will get a beer gauge of his ability when he plays with kolinske, who has played in an fivb qualifier. I didn't mean Frishman was better than Del Sol, I meant on the AVP, although I have no idea who is second, maybe the little Mckibbin? Makes it even more frustrating that 1) Tri is hurt and 2) he stupidly insists on blocking. I'll go you one further and say I don't think any of the defending dinosaurs are in their primes anymore. Casey, Hyden and Rosie are definitely past it, and Nick seems like he is at the very tail end. He still plays great defense and is very,very fast, but he makes fewer insane athletic plays than he used to and Mayer has a job now. I'd trade all of them for Aaron Russell or Taylor Sander to commit to the beach. Also Cody Kessel.
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Post by beej05 on Jun 6, 2017 10:46:25 GMT -5
With the depth us men have (or don't have), who the hell knows what players will be represented on the men's side in 5 years. Defensively, who do the men have that will be on the next level in 5 years, Taylor crabb and nobody? Who's the second best 30 under defenseman playing avp in ny? Bomgren? Eric Zaun? Del Sol is a better player than those guys. People don't realize how desperate usa is for even just young really good players right now, let alone international players. Thats a reasonable point, especially since Bomgren is 33, although he is much better than Del Sol. Frishman may be the best under 30 defender, although there is basically no one right now. I guess its smart of Del Sol to be on all the NORCECAs, the NVL thing is still confusing. I still cant see Del Sol repping the US internatonally, but that would require new players joining the tour. I didnt realize how many players I think of as sort of new or up and coming (like Bomgren, Burik, Mayer) are already old. I think that's selling Del Sol,Taylor Crabb, Frishman, Zaun short. Those guys are ballers that can side out. They are young yes. But they will get there. Many of them just need a good blocker in from of them. Not great but good and I think most of them will compete on the FIVB stage. Mayer has other stuff outside of beach going so I feel like those things are what has kept him from getting to be the best of the best. IMO
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Post by haze on Jun 6, 2017 11:05:06 GMT -5
I didn't mean Frishman was better than Del Sol, I meant on the AVP, although I have no idea who is second, maybe the little Mckibbin? Makes it even more frustrating that 1) Tri is hurt and 2) he stupidly insists on blocking. I'll go you one further and say I don't think any of the defending dinosaurs are in their primes anymore. Casey, Hyden and Rosie are definitely past it, and Nick seems like he is at the very tail end. He still plays great defense and is very,very fast, but he makes fewer insane athletic plays than he used to and Mayer has a job now. I'd trade all of them for Aaron Russell or Taylor Sander to commit to the beach. Also Cody Kessel. I want more than anything for Kessel to move to the beach. Him and del sol had a very potent but short partnership after he graduated and waited for indoor season to start and del sol was teaching him the game. . Kid has so much ability and really puts up a wall as a block. But he may even be better playing defense in the sand and could probably have a higher ability.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 6, 2017 12:33:18 GMT -5
Thats a reasonable point, especially since Bomgren is 33, although he is much better than Del Sol. Frishman may be the best under 30 defender, although there is basically no one right now. I guess its smart of Del Sol to be on all the NORCECAs, the NVL thing is still confusing. I still cant see Del Sol repping the US internatonally, but that would require new players joining the tour. I didnt realize how many players I think of as sort of new or up and coming (like Bomgren, Burik, Mayer) are already old. I think that's selling Del Sol,Taylor Crabb, Frishman, Zaun short. Those guys are ballers that can side out. They are young yes. But they will get there. Many of them just need a good blocker in from of them. Not great but good and I think most of them will compete on the FIVB stage. Mayer has other stuff outside of beach going so I feel like those things are what has kept him from getting to be the best of the best. IMO I haven't seen enough of Del Sol to say 100% - although I am 98 - but Frishman and Zaun aren't winning FIVBs. Frishman is tiny, not that great athletically, and old. Almost everyone who has ever been any good was either playing at an elite level indoors or out. What defender on the FIVB now doesn't have better physical tools than Zaun?
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Post by bvbfan on Jun 6, 2017 13:06:27 GMT -5
I dont think you've watched Frishman much if you are saying he isn't athletically gifted. Zaun also pretty much purely relies on his athleticism. He is very raw at only 23 years old. People don't realize that he is carrying Ratledge to his best season in years while being the youngest player on tour by a few years (yes it's already safe to say this his best season in years after only 2 tournaments)
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Post by haze on Jun 6, 2017 14:27:18 GMT -5
Zaun IMO is very explosive and really physically gifted, but he doesn't have enough consistency right now and he isn't natural at defending. He's to me a much shorter and poorer version of Patterson, who strengths lay in siding out and transition when he can make quality plays defensively. He really struggles in out of system and bettering the ball. He's learning and continues to get better though.
Del Sol to me is kind of a mystery, he's also very explosive, and makes crazy plays defensively. He's kind of a throwback old school player where his ball control is exceptional, he can make all the shots and he has elite hands. He's always going to be limited on his size. He's somewhat of a salty player which shows in his ability to flat out make great plays, but I wonder if people get tired of his demanding persona. Marciniak ended up taking a backseat to him on the NVL and he basically taught Samuels how to become the blocker he is. Samuels could have been a really solid AVP player if he wasn't such a head case and better conditioned.
The problem with these guys is they are in fact the US best young players, and yes, that's more of a reflection of the current state of men's beach volleyball in the US. None of these guys could play Internationally right now while other countries have better, and younger talents already playing. It could be a situation where these guys do transition to our FIVB team in the next 5+ years simply because there is nobody else. Somebody has to represent USA.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 6, 2017 14:30:52 GMT -5
I dont think you've watched Frishman much if you are saying he isn't athletically gifted. Zaun also pretty much purely relies on his athleticism. He is very raw at only 23 years old. People don't realize that he is carrying Ratledge to his best season in years while being the youngest player on tour by a few years (yes it's already safe to say this his best season in years after only 2 tournaments) Ive seen Zaun play a lot on the NVL, Pottstown, Big Shot, etc. and I'm not very impressed. Good athlete, great regional player, but on the AVP? When they played Hudson and Mark on grass, he seemed like the second or third best athlete out there - behind Palm and tied with or behind Hudson. Definitely Ed's best season in a while, but those results were both essentially lucky draws. They have beaten one good team all year and calling Ty/Ty good is being kind. I think Piotr has more potential, although both top out around 5th, with an occasional good draw 3rd. I do like to see young guys aim high so its good to see him make the move, maybe I am wrong, I never expected Burik to be this good for example. It seems like far from the NVL getting stronger it may actually be suffering this year. With Peter, Zaun, Samuels, Pri Lima all moving over, it would take both Kolinske and Page playing full time NVL to do any better than break even. (I can't imagine Kerri playing more than one or two NVLs) Frishman is athletically gifted if you don't count height, however when you are as small as Chase to be sufficiently gifted to be able to contend in a pro beach event means a whole different thing. Put his speed, jump etc. on a 6'5 guy and we'd be raving, but Chase is Jon Steveson short. Also he and Brunsting started the year by getting waxed by a bunch of non-contenders
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