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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 26, 2017 11:05:25 GMT -5
Agatha said she's sticking with Duda for 2020 Yeah, like it's going to be her choice.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 26, 2017 11:46:08 GMT -5
I've never found that a compelling argument, to say the least. Sam Jones wasn't tasked with carrying his team, Bill Russell was (which is why Russ is always in the conversation). Same with Parker - or Ginobli, Horry, Kerr and other guys who collected rings but were never asked to be "The Man." Larissa v. Misty is an interesting discussion, but it's a short one. Along with her 100-something wins, Misty was a Big Game Hunter. Larissa? Playing for bronze...again. And how did Misty do without Kerri? Remind me again? And Kerri without Misty? Juliana without Larissa? Russell wasn't tasked with carrying his team. In the playoff, when the Celts needed to score, Sam Jones is the one they looked to along with a few others depending on the year. Never Russell. Kobe and Duncan were asked to be the man, so by your rationale both are better than Lebron or Wilt. Bill Russell rather than being what proves your argument is what shows how limited it is. As time goes on and analytics become more advanced and the game is better understood, only tradition even keeps Russell in the conversation. No other player in the top 20 all time wasn't a top 3 offensive player in the league for several years. Russell was regularly not even a top 3 offensive player on his team How many major wins does Kerri have with someone other than Misty? Zero? But that's probably an entirely different discussion. My point is how Misty performed in big events. She was, virtually without fail, lights out - never cracking, while at the same time keeping Kerri from flipping out on multiple occasions. In my mind, that will always keep her on a higher pedestal than Larissa. And while this might be considered recency bias to some degree on my part, I would probably give the "Larissa as equal to or better than Misty" argument more credence if it had been made after Larissa won a big event instead of it being brought up during a quarterfinal match in a meaningless tournament a few hours before being humiliated in the semifinal. As for Russell, second bananas don't win five MVP's. Even with guys like Cousy, the two Jones's, and Havlicek on the roster, the Celt's were Russell's team. I would be honestly interested in seeing modern analytics applied to Russell, but I'm not sure that's really possible - I'd be surprised if every NBA game he played is available for viewing (although I could be wrong). I'm not even sure detailed box scores are available, although that seems more likely.
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Post by ajm on Aug 26, 2017 12:54:55 GMT -5
Germans win 15-10. Laura ends the match with 2 aces! Can't believe they won 2016 Olympic gold, 2016 World Tour Finals, 2017 World Champs, 2017 World Tour Finals (in hometown Hamburg too)! Kind of a gutsy performance by Kira as she didn't look 100% healthy. She had problems siding out in the second set and they even switched to split blocking for awhile. Looked like the trainer was icing her shoulder during time outs. Laura's defense was spectacular as usual. Agatha and Duda had plenty of opportunities to win this match but just made too many errors. They also had some communication issues on serve receive.
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Post by ajm on Aug 26, 2017 12:57:58 GMT -5
Also, I love the serve receive location chart they kept showing on the live stream. Wish the AVP would do this too.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2017 12:58:32 GMT -5
Agatha said she's sticking with Duda for 2020 In related news, Nicole is sticking with Kerri. I think you are probably right but Duda is the one making that decision (unless its the federation)
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2017 13:16:31 GMT -5
And how did Misty do without Kerri? Remind me again? And Kerri without Misty? Juliana without Larissa? Russell wasn't tasked with carrying his team. In the playoff, when the Celts needed to score, Sam Jones is the one they looked to along with a few others depending on the year. Never Russell. Kobe and Duncan were asked to be the man, so by your rationale both are better than Lebron or Wilt. Bill Russell rather than being what proves your argument is what shows how limited it is. As time goes on and analytics become more advanced and the game is better understood, only tradition even keeps Russell in the conversation. No other player in the top 20 all time wasn't a top 3 offensive player in the league for several years. Russell was regularly not even a top 3 offensive player on his team How many major wins does Kerri have with someone other than Misty? Zero? But that's probably an entirely different discussion. My point is how Misty performed in big events. She was, virtually without fail, lights out - never cracking, while at the same time keeping Kerri from flipping out on multiple occasions. In my mind, that will always keep her on a higher pedestal than Larissa. And while this might be considered recency bias to some degree on my part, I would probably give the "Larissa as equal to or better than Misty" argument more credence if it had been made after Larissa won a big event instead of it being brought up during a quarterfinal match in a meaningless tournament a few hours before being humiliated in the semifinal. As for Russell, second bananas don't win five MVP's. Even with guys like Cousy, the two Jones's, and Havlicek on the roster, the Celt's were Russell's team. I would be honestly interested in seeing modern analytics applied to Russell, but I'm not sure that's really possible - I'd be surprised if every NBA game he played is available for viewing (although I could be wrong). I'm not even sure detailed box scores are available, although that seems more likely. Oh I am not saying Larissa is the best current player, she is clearly a year or three past her prime. I think she is probably 3rd to 6th currently, hard to say when so much is matchups and teammates. The reason it came up now is I took a look at season wins and realized she had 4 when I though it was 2, before the final here, no one else had 2. For Russell True Shooting and regular old field goal percentage tell the story. He was a dunker who made shots at an Iverson-esque clip
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2017 13:18:13 GMT -5
Germans win 15-10. Laura ends the match with 2 aces! Can't believe they won 2016 Olympic gold, 2016 World Tour Finals, 2017 World Champs, 2017 World Tour Finals (in hometown Hamburg too)! Kind of a gutsy performance by Kira as she didn't look 100% healthy. She had problems siding out in the second set and they even switched to split blocking for awhile. Looked like the trainer was icing her shoulder during time outs. Laura's defense was spectacular as usual. Agatha and Duda had plenty of opportunities to win this match but just made too many errors. They also had some communication issues on serve receive. You know what I found amazing about the German girls is they played two very different offensive styles against the Canadian and the Brazilians, but won with both. If they can get their injury issues under control, hard to see them not dominating for a few years at least.
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Post by VolleyballMag on Aug 26, 2017 15:58:05 GMT -5
Match story is up: volleyballmag.com/fivb-hamburg-082617/
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Post by socalplayer on Aug 27, 2017 0:41:45 GMT -5
But we can`t judge just based on winning the Olympics. Look at soccer, Messi and Ronaldo are considered among the greatest ever, but they have never performed well in the World Cup and they will end their careers without ever winning the biggest tournament. I see the World Tour as "club season" and OG and WCH as "International Tournaments". In the World Tour everyone is more in their element, in the OG and WCH everyone is out of their comfort zone. Precisely the point. Misty has six golds from WC/OG. Larissa has one (2011 WC). When everyone is out of their comfort zone, Misty performed time and time again. Every discussion of who the GOAT is - May, Walsh, Larissa, Michael Jordan, LeBron, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Serena, Federer and so on - always boils down to who won the biggest, most pressure packed events. True but comparing Federer's achievements to Ronaldo and Messi is not a fair comparison. Federer plays an individual sport. Ronaldo and Messi play in the best clubs in the world but their countrymen are average. You need 11 people for soccer. Portugal and Argentina had great players time to time but never more than 1-2 at once. You can't win a WC on your own. But I agree with you. Misty and Kerri always won the biggest events...(and won a bunch of small ones as well). They were amazing together! Period! But in my opinion Kerri is the GOAT since she has the most wins and most Olympic medals.
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