|
Post by vbkahuna on Dec 17, 2018 16:35:04 GMT -5
My only quibble with your comment was the word "great", not with whether Hambly is a very good coach or whether he improved the program overall. Other than 2011, those annual W/L records collectively are not "great". Nor, for that matter, does making Sweet 16 constitute "great". You have a very low bar apparently for what constitutes greatness. Furthermore, regarding Tamas, I made no assertion about him. However, he's off to a very good start, including taking virtually the same team Hambly had in 2016 (that didn't make the playoffs) and getting it to the Sweet 16 in 2017 and the Final Four in 2018. The coming years will be the judge whether the term "great" can be applied for his results. You don’t think that many consecutive years of sweet sixteen is great? Ask Michigan, Ohio State, and Michigan what they think of that. How many years did Illinois miss the tourney altogether in the 20 years before Hambly took over. People from Illinois think it’s so easy to have success at the highest level, but don’t appreciate how hard it actually is. Hambly did a great job. You’re drunk if you think otherwise. Hebert did, as well, but Hardin was mediocre and drove away the fruits of Hebert’s labor. As a matter of fact, no, I don't think getting to Sweet 16s is "great". I think it's "very good". Getting to multiple Final Fours is "excellent". Winning multiple championships is "great". I'm not drunk. I have high standards. Aspiring to (and achieving) such standards leads to true greatness. Elevate your aspirations.
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Dec 17, 2018 16:42:09 GMT -5
The road is littered with coaches who have taken the reins at a program and found success with someone else's talent--Mike Sealy at UCLA, Kevin Hambly at Illinois, Mick Haley at USC, John Dunning at Stanford, among others-- and then struggled (to some degree or another) to create their own powerhouse. Tamas has as much potential as any of those coaches, but don't underestimate the difficulty of creating and maintaining a quality program over time. Tamas is still a young and relatively inexperienced coach, and he still has a lot to experience and learn, and Illinois still has a way to go as an institution before it can consistently deliver what is needed for that level of success. I get your point overall, but you need to edit John Dunning's name out of your comment. He's a Hall of Fame coach over 32 years and multiple successful records at different colleges, including 2 national championships at UOP and 3 at Stanford. No, i don't. Dunning began and ended his career at Stanford with National Championships (2001 and 2016, with another in 2004), but he had a very long drought in between 2004 and 20016 (a remarkable drought for Stanford, notwithstanding Penn State's 4 years of dominance). Stanford is in a league of its own recruiting-wise, but Dunning's time there still fits the narrative I described. Meanwhile, at Pacific, Dunning won back to back championships his first two years, and didnt win another.
|
|
|
Post by illinoisportsfan on Dec 17, 2018 16:44:33 GMT -5
Hambly has created Illinois into a great volleyball program from a less than average one. Everyone, even he, thought he would stay.... then his dream job opened up. Nebraska is probably Tmas’s Dream job. "Rebuilt" would be a better word to describe the job Hambly did at Illinois. If you compare Hebert's teams from '85-'95, he had arguably more consistent success than Hambly, including 11 straight NCAA tournament appearances, 7 sweet-sixteens, 5 regional finals and 2 Final Fours. Hardin had 6 NCAA tournament appearances in 13 years, including 4 second-round and 3 sweet-sixteen appearances. Hambly in 8 seasons: 6 NCAA tournament appearances, including 6 sweet-sixteens and 1 Final Four
|
|
|
Post by ilalum92 on Dec 17, 2018 16:47:26 GMT -5
Mike Hebert was the architect of Illinois volleyball. Thank you! I was about to chime in -- Hambly didnt build anything. Hebert puts us on the map. Two consecutive Final Fours. I had the pleasure of watching those teams from the confines of good ole Kinney Gym. Those upper balcony seats were horrendous and you couldn't see but we packed the gym every game.
|
|
|
Post by brucks on Dec 17, 2018 17:44:20 GMT -5
Mike Hebert was the architect of Illinois volleyball. Thank you! I was about to chime in -- Hambly didnt build anything. Hebert puts us on the map. Two consecutive Final Fours. I had the pleasure of watching those teams from the confines of good ole Kinney Gym. Those upper balcony seats were horrendous and you couldn't see but we packed the gym every game. Good point. Then again, it only took about 17 fans to pack Kinney.
|
|
|
Post by oldmanvb on Dec 17, 2018 18:59:05 GMT -5
The argument is that Hambly is a better recruiter than practice/game coach. I understand that rating recruiting classes is subjective in the extreme, and that stuff happens after the recruits show up on campus, but his recruiting classes were consistently rated as top 10, but only once did he get past the sweet sixteen. I kept getting the feeling that after 2011 he was phoning it in - the cool demeanor on the bench during our matches was replaced by standing and coaching after he got to Stanford. The substance may have been the same, but the appearance was certainly different. In my opinion, his move to Stanford was good for him and good for Illinois.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 14:08:40 GMT -5
The road is littered with coaches who have taken the reins at a program and found success with someone else's talent--Mike Sealy at UCLA, Kevin Hambly at Illinois, Mick Haley at USC, John Dunning at Stanford, among others-- and then struggled (to some degree or another) to create their own powerhouse. Tamas has as much potential as any of those coaches, but don't underestimate the difficulty of creating and maintaining a quality program over time. Tamas is still a young and relatively inexperienced coach, and he still has a lot to experience and learn, and Illinois still has a way to go as an institution before it can consistently deliver what is needed for that level of success. Kevin only had success with his own recruits. He was there as an assistant for several years before he was the head coach. Kevin has had success at Stanford with dunning’s recruits. When Hentz is THE BRO you better win stuff.
|
|
|
Post by eamuscatuli on Dec 20, 2018 12:32:47 GMT -5
It's official. Mica Allison is Illinois-bound. What do you do with two really good setters? 6-2?
|
|
|
Post by vbkahuna on Dec 20, 2018 12:46:52 GMT -5
It's official. Mica Allison is Illinois-bound. What do you do with two really good setters? 6-2? Win
|
|
|
Post by huskerjen on Dec 20, 2018 13:34:17 GMT -5
It's official. Mica Allison is Illinois-bound. What do you do with two really good setters? 6-2? Allison will set a 5-1.
|
|
|
Post by ilalum92 on Dec 20, 2018 14:41:25 GMT -5
The argument is that Hambly is a better recruiter than practice/game coach. I understand that rating recruiting classes is subjective in the extreme, and that stuff happens after the recruits show up on campus, but his recruiting classes were consistently rated as top 10, but only once did he get past the sweet sixteen. I kept getting the feeling that after 2011 he was phoning it in - the cool demeanor on the bench during our matches was replaced by standing and coaching after he got to Stanford. The substance may have been the same, but the appearance was certainly different. In my opinion, his move to Stanford was good for him and good for Illinois. I'm so glad someone else noticed this too. Hambly sat on his butt most of the time during the last 2-3 years. I remember his famous " figure it out" line he yelled one time. At Stanford he stands the whole time, checking his tablet and making adjustments. I'm glad he's gone. I think Tamas will bring this program back to the Hebert days. I also thought it was odd that everyone thought he was such an amazing recruiter. We had some recruits who just nose-dived. Tamas came in early 2017 and Hambly had just ONE recruit signed for the 2018 class. Tamas was way behind. He came in and has signed some great girls along with hitting the transfer market. Hambly sort of handicapped us.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 23:16:28 GMT -5
The road is littered with coaches who have taken the reins at a program and found success with someone else's talent--Mike Sealy at UCLA, Kevin Hambly at Illinois, Mick Haley at USC, John Dunning at Stanford, among others-- and then struggled (to some degree or another) to create their own powerhouse. Tamas has as much potential as any of those coaches, but don't underestimate the difficulty of creating and maintaining a quality program over time. Tamas is still a young and relatively inexperienced coach, and he still has a lot to experience and learn, and Illinois still has a way to go as an institution before it can consistently deliver what is needed for that level of success. I think there's something to be said for Tamas taking a group of juniors and seniors that Hambly couldn't even make the tournament with two seasons ago to the Final Four. Illinois only started two top ten kids. He's clearly got something.
|
|
|
Post by WahineFan44 on Dec 20, 2018 23:29:28 GMT -5
The road is littered with coaches who have taken the reins at a program and found success with someone else's talent--Mike Sealy at UCLA, Kevin Hambly at Illinois, Mick Haley at USC, John Dunning at Stanford, among others-- and then struggled (to some degree or another) to create their own powerhouse. Tamas has as much potential as any of those coaches, but don't underestimate the difficulty of creating and maintaining a quality program over time. Tamas is still a young and relatively inexperienced coach, and he still has a lot to experience and learn, and Illinois still has a way to go as an institution before it can consistently deliver what is needed for that level of success. I think there's something to be said for Tamas taking a group of juniors and seniors that Hambly couldn't even make the tournament with two seasons ago to the Final Four. Illinois only started two top ten kids. He's clearly got something. I really wish Hawaii was in that scenrio when having 2 top ten kids is considered an “only” lol
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Dec 20, 2018 23:33:21 GMT -5
The road is littered with coaches who have taken the reins at a program and found success with someone else's talent--Mike Sealy at UCLA, Kevin Hambly at Illinois, Mick Haley at USC, John Dunning at Stanford, among others-- and then struggled (to some degree or another) to create their own powerhouse. Tamas has as much potential as any of those coaches, but don't underestimate the difficulty of creating and maintaining a quality program over time. Tamas is still a young and relatively inexperienced coach, and he still has a lot to experience and learn, and Illinois still has a way to go as an institution before it can consistently deliver what is needed for that level of success. I think there's something to be said for Tamas taking a group of juniors and seniors that Hambly couldn't even make the tournament with two seasons ago to the Final Four. Illinois only started two top ten kids. He's clearly got something. I think he's good. As good or better than his peers in age or experience, but I think it takes a lot to build a consistent program, some/much of which goes beyond coaching. It's too early to tell about those other things (admin, recruiting, PR, fundraising, difficulties in individual and/or team relationships, ego and ambition, etc.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 23:36:23 GMT -5
I think there's something to be said for Tamas taking a group of juniors and seniors that Hambly couldn't even make the tournament with two seasons ago to the Final Four. Illinois only started two top ten kids. He's clearly got something. I really wish Hawaii was in that scenrio when having 2 top ten kids is considered an “only” lol Well, I mean compared to Wisconsin, Nebraska, Texas, Penn State, Stanford... Getting to that stage with two top ten kids, one other ranked in the 30s, one in the 50s, one in the 80s (QUADE!), and two others that weren't ranked is a pretty big accomplishment.
|
|