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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 4, 2019 2:31:20 GMT -5
How so? Bronn has never been above using threats to achieve personal gain (or just outright violence). And Tyrion did owe him quite a bit. The fact that he could simply walk up to the Hand of the Queen without encountering guards - and even if Tyrion didnt have them, Jaime would certainly have needed defending in Stark country, the fact that the Hand then put a man who was neither smart nor trustworthy on the Small Council, the fact that Bran honored a promise blackmailed via proxy out of Danearys that would be harmful to many many people etc. etc. etc. Even kings and queens generally had a very small bodyguard in this story. There is no evidence that the king or queen's Hand ever had a bodyguard (well, except when Tyrion hired Bronn to do it). And Jamie was a famous warrior, even missing a hand. When Ned was Hand he brought a staff, retainers, soldiers, etc. But they would have (and did) let known people past the gates. Numerous people are seen meeting with Ned one-on-one. Bronn was a known friend of both Jaime and Tyrion.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 4, 2019 8:21:48 GMT -5
The fact that he could simply walk up to the Hand of the Queen without encountering guards - and even if Tyrion didnt have them, Jaime would certainly have needed defending in Stark country, the fact that the Hand then put a man who was neither smart nor trustworthy on the Small Council, the fact that Bran honored a promise blackmailed via proxy out of Danearys that would be harmful to many many people etc. etc. etc. Even kings and queens generally had a very small bodyguard in this story. There is no evidence that the king or queen's Hand ever had a bodyguard (well, except when Tyrion hired Bronn to do it). And Jamie was a famous warrior, even missing a hand. When Ned was Hand he brought a staff, retainers, soldiers, etc. But they would have (and did) let known people past the gates. Numerous people are seen meeting with Ned one-on-one. Bronn was a known friend of both Jaime and Tyrion. Ned had guards he brought from Winterfell, you will recall when Jaime attacked him in Kings Landing many were killed. Bronn was a known cutthroat who chose to side with Cersei to the extent he was known at all, otherwise it has been years since he was with Tyrion and no one guarding the hand likely would have known him on sight
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 4, 2019 8:57:49 GMT -5
Ned had guards he brought from Winterfell, you will recall when Jaime attacked him in Kings Landing many were killed. Think back to when Arya showed up. Sansa had one bodyguard (Brienne), and she wasn't with Sansa day and night. Meanwhile Winterfell did have gate guards (who refused to let Arya in), but they were shown to be incompetent. I think you are confusing the people who guarded the Tower Of The Hand with the people who guarded Ned himself. Ned had a body of soldiers there with him, but not bodyguards. The distinction was generally very real during medieval times. A lord had a retinue of soldiers in part just to show that he was a lord. He could be called on to contribute those soldiers to the King's service. He also had a small army of servants and household members, and the soldiers protected them from bandits and such. He didn't need "bodyguards" because of course no one would harm him when he was their guest (guestright). But he needed protection when he traveled, and it was only polite (and good sense) for him to contribute to the defense of the castle of wherever he was staying. Come to think of it, the distinction is still real here in the US. The President commands the military, but his bodyguards are not military -- they are Secret Service. The guards Ned brought with him to King's Landing were like the military, not like the Secret Service. The Kingsguard was like the Secret Service. If Jaime *had* brought an entire Lannister army with him, he still wouldn't have had bodyguards. They would have been out in the military camps and guarding the walls, not protecting his person.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 4, 2019 9:12:59 GMT -5
Ned had guards he brought from Winterfell, you will recall when Jaime attacked him in Kings Landing many were killed. Think back to when Arya showed up. Sansa had one bodyguard (Brienne), and she wasn't with Sansa day and night. Meanwhile Winterfell did have gate guards (who refused to let Arya in), but they were shown to be incompetent. And in pointing out a contradiction you further illustrate my point vis a vis bad and sloppy writing,I think you are confusing the people who guarded the Tower Of The Hand with the people who guarded Ned himself. The conflict in question, which involved Ned's guards, took place outside a brothelNed had a body of soldiers there with him, but not bodyguards. The distinction was generally very real during medieval times. Westeros is not medieval times, its a fictional placeCome to think of it, the distinction is still real here in the US. The President commands the military, but his bodyguards are not military -- they are Secret Service. The guards Ned brought with him to King's Landing were like the military, not like the Secret Service. The Kingsguard was like the Secret Service. If Jaime *had* brought an entire Lannister army with him, he still wouldn't have had bodyguards. They would have been out in the military camps and guarding the walls, not protecting his person. And if Jaime were not guarded the Northmen would have torn him apart. Just more sloppy thinking and lazy writing, which are what plagued the show once the source material was exhausted
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 4, 2019 9:50:29 GMT -5
And if Jaime were not guarded the Northmen would have torn him apart. He was there to fight for them. Once Sansa and Dani and Jon and Bran said he could stay (remember that scene?), why would he need guards? Besides, the Bronn scene in question was Episode 4. This is AFTER Jaime has participated in the defense of Winterhold. They are all drinking buddies now, not enemies. They also probably have a lot looser guard procedures -- half the would-be guards are dead and the other half are drunk and celebrating how they defeated an army of zombies.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 4, 2019 10:03:38 GMT -5
As for Ned, Ned had guards when walking around the city, but not in the Red Keep. Jaime and Tyrion were not out in the middle of the biggest city in Westeros -- they were in what looked to be private chambers in Winterfell.
Bottom line, I had no problem with Bronn being able to just walk in on Jaime and Tyrion at that time and place. (I had a lot of problem with Bronn being able to recock that massive crossbow so quickly after firing a warning shot.)
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 4, 2019 10:07:47 GMT -5
Anyway, what would have happened if a guard had come in and said, "My lords, there is a man who says he is Sir Bronn Of The Blackwater here to see you"? Any doubt Tyrion would have said, "Bronn? Send him in!"
They both thought they were welcoming in an old buddy, not inviting in the guy that Cersei had hired to kill them.
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Post by jayj79 on Jun 4, 2019 17:14:27 GMT -5
happened to catch the end of the final episode while flipping through the channels, and noticed something that I hadn't realized during the initial viewing.
The opening scene of the first episode of season 1 had 3 members of the Nights Watch riding through the Castle Black tunnel and into the forest north of the Wall to try and investigate where all the Wildlings had gone.
The closing scene of the final episode had Jon/Aegon (AeJon?) and Tormund riding (along with many Free Folk on foot) riding through the Castle Black tunnel and into the forest north of the Wall (presumably to resettle those lands).
Kind of a nice touch of symmetry.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 4, 2019 17:43:36 GMT -5
happened to catch the end of the final episode while flipping through the channels, and noticed something that I hadn't realized during the initial viewing. The opening scene of the first episode of season 1 had 3 members of the Nights Watch riding through the Castle Black tunnel and into the forest north of the Wall to try and investigate where all the Wildlings had gone. The closing scene of the final episode had Jon/Aegon (AeJon?) and Tormund riding (along with many Free Folk on foot) riding through the Castle Black tunnel and into the forest north of the Wall (presumably to resettle those lands). Kind of a nice touch of symmetry. Yeah. At first when the screen started getting black from the top down I thought it was a funny sort of wipe, but then I realized (just before they changed the angle of the shot) that it was the door to tunnel at Castle Black closing. I still don't understand the point of having a Night Watch now. Originally the Night Watch was an honor. Eventually it became a punishment or dumping ground for younger sons. But at least it still held some kind of meaning. Now it's meaningless. They should have formally had some kind of "your watch is over" ceremony and retired the Night Watch with honor. (Then they could start a new order as a place for dumping people like Jon Snow, but one that at least has some kind of purpose.)
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Post by jayj79 on Jun 4, 2019 18:20:54 GMT -5
eh, they're still the Westerosi border patrol. *shrug* who's to say that the Thenns or some other group of "wildlings" don't start to get unruly again years down the road.
Or maybe it essentially was disbanded. Seemed like it was just Tormund's group of Free Folk up there, and whoever escorted AeJon up there, and Jon and the Free Folk all seemed to have left for the real North anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2019 1:30:23 GMT -5
Does anyone know why Mike keeps calling her "Dani" vs. "Dany"
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