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Post by moderndaycoach on May 31, 2019 13:10:42 GMT -5
They don't give wildcards for the qualifier. They never have and they never will. If the argument is a WC into the main draw, you give it to about the top 10 qualifier seeds before even thinking about someone like the Partain bros. If they want to not miss the qualifier they can play local AVPA tournaments to get more points and qualify the legit way like everyone else. Most all these guys pay their dues to some form or another. Burik floated in qualifiers early last year without success before now becoming a MD player. Skylar and Bruno were low level qualifers point wise at the beginning of last year and now look to be a MD team possibly in an expanded field. There's opportunities for them to get points to not miss the cut off in qualifiers. Right my point isn't about making the main draw, earn that through the quali. But when we have the opportunity to take two special talents and guarantee them a spot in the Q why would we not be doing that? If Sponcil had zero points and decided she wanted to play with an old UCLA partner or friend that also had zero points, would we not be saying holy crap we need to make sure she has a spot in the Q? Or are we dismissing the fact they are two of the best U21 kids we have that have shown they can compete at a super high level.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 13:13:02 GMT -5
the avp does say they reserve the right to give away qualifier wildcards
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Post by haze on May 31, 2019 13:15:34 GMT -5
They don't give wildcards for the qualifier. They never have and they never will. If the argument is a WC into the main draw, you give it to about the top 10 qualifier seeds before even thinking about someone like the Partain bros. If they want to not miss the qualifier they can play local AVPA tournaments to get more points and qualify the legit way like everyone else. Most all these guys pay their dues to some form or another. Burik floated in qualifiers early last year without success before now becoming a MD player. Skylar and Bruno were low level qualifers point wise at the beginning of last year and now look to be a MD team possibly in an expanded field. There's opportunities for them to get points to not miss the cut off in qualifiers. Right my point isn't about making the main draw, earn that through the quali. But when we have the opportunity to take two special talents and guarantee them a spot in the Q why would we not be doing that? If Sponcil had zero points and decided she wanted to play with an old UCLA partner or friend that also had zero points, would we not be saying holy crap we need to make sure she has a spot in the Q? Or are we dismissing the fact they are two of the best U21 kids we have that have shown they can compete at a super high level. The AVP doesn't do that. They never have. I don't see it as an issue. It's a tiered system now. You can't play in a capped qualifier if you don't have the points, just like you aren't a MD team if you don't have the points. It's a good system. Nobody's arguing that they aren't talented. They simply don't have enough points in a system that doesn't make exceptions. Everyone knows the rules. It doesn't appear that Marcus even played any AVP qualifiers last year. Or this year. Miles hasn't played any this year. They miss HB and Austin and all of a sudden want to fly out to NY in a capped field and the AVP should make exception? No way.
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Post by haze on May 31, 2019 13:16:17 GMT -5
the avp does say they reserve the right to give away qualifier wildcards I would be curious when, and what their exception is. And I would hope that they would explain themselves or imo it's just biased stupidity.
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Post by JB Southpaw on May 31, 2019 13:46:09 GMT -5
They don't give wildcards for the qualifier. They never have and they never will. If the argument is a WC into the main draw, you give it to about the top 10 qualifier seeds before even thinking about someone like the Partain bros. If they want to not miss the qualifier they can play local AVPA tournaments to get more points and qualify the legit way like everyone else. Most all these guys pay their dues to some form or another. Burik floated in qualifiers early last year without success before now becoming a MD player. Skylar and Bruno were low level qualifers point wise at the beginning of last year and now look to be a MD team possibly in an expanded field. There's opportunities for them to get points to not miss the cut off in qualifiers. Right my point isn't about making the main draw, earn that through the quali. But when we have the opportunity to take two special talents and guarantee them a spot in the Q why would we not be doing that? If Sponcil had zero points and decided she wanted to play with an old UCLA partner or friend that also had zero points, would we not be saying holy crap we need to make sure she has a spot in the Q? Or are we dismissing the fact they are two of the best U21 kids we have that have shown they can compete at a super high level. These guys aren't special... May be a bit better than the VZs at this age, which is great, but not special. Big George was special. DeFalco could have been special.
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Post by guest2 on May 31, 2019 14:01:20 GMT -5
All of the things you suggest amount to "they prioritized other things over playing beach." Nothing wrong with that, but the guys you deride didn't. Most had real, adult obligations like jobs, families etc. and they found the time, how do they deserve it less than teenagers who prioritized "offseasons with their friends" (not that I know they did, but just using your proffered rationale) Say a 19 year old walks into a top law firm or investment bank and wants an internship. When the HR guy asks, "did you take X course at your school which would have prepared you for this?" the 19 year old says, "no, I knew I should but I was more interested in AP US history" Thats the end of the interview. These guys may one day be solid pros, but they arent Kent Steffes or Phil Dalhausser and if they want a leg up, they should show they are dedicated to earning it. No knock on them, they have plenty of time to do whatever they want, but they havent earned a WC or really shown any special talent. This isnt Steffes playing high level beach at 19 or Ceman/Swatik almost knocking off KK/KS at the same age. They have some nice wins over decent players, thats all Prioritized other VOLLEYBALL things than playing beach, that is not a professional beach off season with their friends - boys club season runs through July and I am sure they are major pieces to their club teams that they have friends on, so if they bailed it would significantly decrease their teams and friends chances of winning tournaments, not to mention they probably still have class or just finished school. So are you dismissing them being UCLA Commits, qualifying for a main draw before one could drive and one could buy lotto tickets, playing FIVB and being USA pipeline guys? I would say those are pretty qualifying internships to make sure the AVP puts them in a qualifier they signed up for that will most likely wind up with a cap. It's real hard to even think that you read my post and not just running through it to hurry up and post your remark when you say that they aren't dedicated to earning it and wanting a leg up when they are traveling outside of the country to represent USA and beating teams in local qualifiers that are guys that want to be beach volleyball players full time. Like 405LAX makes the point all the time, why are we wasting our time with guys that are getting waxed 11-11 when we have two bright young stars on the men's side that have a real interest and talent in the game? I think we just disagree on their potential. You call them bright young stars and I see them as decent but undersized and unexceptional prospects. They committed to the 5th best indoor college program in the country. Great. Good for them (seriously). Did either Partain get a scholarship? Otherwise aren't they just one of the 50+ or so kids who commit to UCLA or a similar/better vb school every year? Are all 50+ great prospects? I don't see that as something that makes them exceptional. To me it indicates they are solid VB players for their age but unless they got money, they are not in the top tier of prospects. Is it the single time the Partains qualified the difference? 44 year old Chris Luers qualified last year, its not really that difficult a thing to do. (Of course that same old man spanked the younger Partain in two games last year in the first round of a qualifier.) Who did they beat to qualify? Brock/Rice I believe and if anything screams next AVP star its taking down Brock/Rice. The Partains qualification was very similar to the way a lot of pretty good qualifier teams get in. They play a bunch of qualis - I think one of them has player 8-10 - and luck into a great draw. The fact that they converted that opportunity is a big positive, but there are two dozen guys in the qualifiers who have qualified and done better in the qualis than the Partains. Again, positive indicator of some potential, but no reason to think, "there goes the next Scott Ayakatubby" As to playing FIVB, they lost in the qualifier of one age group event. Are there other events I dont know about? Im sure you have seen both play more than me (I have probably seen the one who played with Lotman 4-5 times and the other one less) so tell me, what athletic skills do either possess that would indicate they would be better physically than average AVP players like Billy Allen or Eric Zaun (not ball skills, physical skills). I'm willing to be convinced and I would love to see some top prospects for once in a while but I just dont see it
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Post by guest2 on May 31, 2019 14:07:40 GMT -5
Right my point isn't about making the main draw, earn that through the quali. But when we have the opportunity to take two special talents and guarantee them a spot in the Q why would we not be doing that? If Sponcil had zero points and decided she wanted to play with an old UCLA partner or friend that also had zero points, would we not be saying holy crap we need to make sure she has a spot in the Q? Or are we dismissing the fact they are two of the best U21 kids we have that have shown they can compete at a super high level. These guys aren't special... May be a bit better than the VZs at this age, which is great, but not special. Big George was special. DeFalco could have been special. Seriously? You couldnt use 5 paragraphs to say that like I did?
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Post by guest2 on May 31, 2019 20:26:24 GMT -5
Partains are in. Interested to see how they do, but this is a brutal qualifier and I dont see any team that low pulling off the string of upsets necessary to get in. Would have to beat at least 1 good team, a normal quali 1 seed and a usual lower main draw team.
Only one automatic MD team that isnt a contender to some degree, should be a fun weekend
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Post by 405LAX on May 31, 2019 23:09:50 GMT -5
Can't wait for this qualifier, let's hope players care enough to stream their matches. Hello McK Brothers.
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Post by bombsaway on Jun 2, 2019 15:19:50 GMT -5
Prioritized other VOLLEYBALL things than playing beach, that is not a professional beach off season with their friends - boys club season runs through July and I am sure they are major pieces to their club teams that they have friends on, so if they bailed it would significantly decrease their teams and friends chances of winning tournaments, not to mention they probably still have class or just finished school. So are you dismissing them being UCLA Commits, qualifying for a main draw before one could drive and one could buy lotto tickets, playing FIVB and being USA pipeline guys? I would say those are pretty qualifying internships to make sure the AVP puts them in a qualifier they signed up for that will most likely wind up with a cap. It's real hard to even think that you read my post and not just running through it to hurry up and post your remark when you say that they aren't dedicated to earning it and wanting a leg up when they are traveling outside of the country to represent USA and beating teams in local qualifiers that are guys that want to be beach volleyball players full time. Like 405LAX makes the point all the time, why are we wasting our time with guys that are getting waxed 11-11 when we have two bright young stars on the men's side that have a real interest and talent in the game? I think we just disagree on their potential. You call them bright young stars and I see them as decent but undersized and unexceptional prospects. They committed to the 5th best indoor college program in the country. Great. Good for them (seriously). Did either Partain get a scholarship? Otherwise aren't they just one of the 50+ or so kids who commit to UCLA or a similar/better vb school every year? Are all 50+ great prospects? I don't see that as something that makes them exceptional. To me it indicates they are solid VB players for their age but unless they got money, they are not in the top tier of prospects. Is it the single time the Partains qualified the difference? 44 year old Chris Luers qualified last year, its not really that difficult a thing to do. (Of course that same old man spanked the younger Partain in two games last year in the first round of a qualifier.) Who did they beat to qualify? Brock/Rice I believe and if anything screams next AVP star its taking down Brock/Rice. The Partains qualification was very similar to the way a lot of pretty good qualifier teams get in. They play a bunch of qualis - I think one of them has player 8-10 - and luck into a great draw. The fact that they converted that opportunity is a big positive, but there are two dozen guys in the qualifiers who have qualified and done better in the qualis than the Partains. Again, positive indicator of some potential, but no reason to think, "there goes the next Scott Ayakatubby" As to playing FIVB, they lost in the qualifier of one age group event. Are there other events I dont know about? Im sure you have seen both play more than me (I have probably seen the one who played with Lotman 4-5 times and the other one less) so tell me, what athletic skills do either possess that would indicate they would be better physically than average AVP players like Billy Allen or Eric Zaun (not ball skills, physical skills). I'm willing to be convinced and I would love to see some top prospects for once in a while but I just dont see it Speaking of young with physical potential.... Garrett Peterson and Adam Weincoski beat Dave Palm and Piotr in a Florida event this weekend.
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Post by haze on Jun 2, 2019 16:27:24 GMT -5
I think we just disagree on their potential. You call them bright young stars and I see them as decent but undersized and unexceptional prospects. They committed to the 5th best indoor college program in the country. Great. Good for them (seriously). Did either Partain get a scholarship? Otherwise aren't they just one of the 50+ or so kids who commit to UCLA or a similar/better vb school every year? Are all 50+ great prospects? I don't see that as something that makes them exceptional. To me it indicates they are solid VB players for their age but unless they got money, they are not in the top tier of prospects. Is it the single time the Partains qualified the difference? 44 year old Chris Luers qualified last year, its not really that difficult a thing to do. (Of course that same old man spanked the younger Partain in two games last year in the first round of a qualifier.) Who did they beat to qualify? Brock/Rice I believe and if anything screams next AVP star its taking down Brock/Rice. The Partains qualification was very similar to the way a lot of pretty good qualifier teams get in. They play a bunch of qualis - I think one of them has player 8-10 - and luck into a great draw. The fact that they converted that opportunity is a big positive, but there are two dozen guys in the qualifiers who have qualified and done better in the qualis than the Partains. Again, positive indicator of some potential, but no reason to think, "there goes the next Scott Ayakatubby" As to playing FIVB, they lost in the qualifier of one age group event. Are there other events I dont know about? Im sure you have seen both play more than me (I have probably seen the one who played with Lotman 4-5 times and the other one less) so tell me, what athletic skills do either possess that would indicate they would be better physically than average AVP players like Billy Allen or Eric Zaun (not ball skills, physical skills). I'm willing to be convinced and I would love to see some top prospects for once in a while but I just dont see it Speaking of young with physical potential.... Garrett Peterson and Adam Weincoski beat Dave Palm and Piotr in a Florida event this weekend. Not sure who is more funny to watch try to play defense, Piotr or Palm.
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Post by donnyb on Jun 2, 2019 16:45:10 GMT -5
Yeah they beat us in the second round. Young punks. Lol
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 3, 2019 7:06:49 GMT -5
Going to do some backtracking here. moderndaycoach I don't have an issue with the P-Bros. The thing that got me was saying they deserved something over others. Glad to see they are in the Q. Also, way too early to have final judgement on them. I remember people doubting Nick(still till this day).
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Post by Winbabywin on Jun 3, 2019 14:43:00 GMT -5
But when we have the opportunity to take two special talents and guarantee them a spot in the Q why would we not be doing that? If Sponcil had zero points and decided she wanted to play with an old UCLA partner or friend that also had zero points, would we not be saying holy crap we need to make sure she has a spot in the Q? Or are we dismissing the fact they are two of the best U21 kids we have that have shown they can compete at a super high level. Are you under the impression that these "special talents" are going to be adding something to the tournament (other than their entry fees)? Every golfer is happy when Tiger is granted an exemption, he brings in millions of viewers and dollars and makes everyone more money, i.e SPECIAL TALENT. Letting in any team that might be able to win a couple of sets, maybe a match or two in a niche sport, ain't doing anything but ensuring they stay entitled. Get the points, and you'll get in...that's how it works. Otherwise, be Tiger, be Kerri or Misty, be a reason for someone to go out there to watch, when they weren't planning to in the 1st place. I doubt anyone in NYC is gonna head out there and pay to get in, cuz they heard Sponcil will be playing.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jun 3, 2019 16:30:25 GMT -5
Going to do some backtracking here. moderndaycoach I don't have an issue with the P-Bros. The thing that got me was saying they deserved something over others. Glad to see they are in the Q. Also, way too early to have final judgement on them. I remember people doubting Nick(still till this day). Everyone was talking like they had zero points, and were going to be cut. They wound up multiple spots ahead of the cutoff and over a 100 points above the last group in. Now to obviously help with my point they should have been granted entry I hope they get to a Q final, or make the MD especially in this tough of a field.
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