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Post by bunnywailer on May 9, 2010 1:23:37 GMT -5
You guys need to stop kidding yourselves. Karch never had to pass jumpserves coming at him in excess of 70mph. Karch never had to hit against 6'7" blockers. Karch was average to slightly above average as a leftside hitter his entire career indoors. He benefitted from the fact that blocking in that era was magnificently crappy, and that most other teams concentrated on stopping Team USA's other more high-profile hitters like Powers, Timmons, and Buck. Karch was the best player of his era, and certainly the most decorated US player ever in the history of our sport (3 Gold Medals). But from a raw volleyball talent and ability standpoint, he is nowhere near the player Priddy is. Case in point - if Karch were at the peak of his physical abilities today the only position he could possibly play and prosper at would be libero. Priddy is a unbelievable. Good chance this next Olympics we will see him on one of the two US Beach Volleyball teams. I doubt it. For whatever reason, Priddy's indoor abilities never really translated themselves to the beach game, for whatever reasons. Maybe if he did devote his time completely to the beach game it might be different. |
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Post by baywatcher on May 9, 2010 2:26:27 GMT -5
Priddy is a unbelievable. Good chance this next Olympics we will see him on one of the two US Beach Volleyball teams. I doubt it. For whatever reason, Priddy's indoor abilities never really translated themselves to the beach game, for whatever reasons. Maybe if he did devote his time completely to the beach game it might be different. Or got Dalhasser (sp?) as a partner. That would be a start. |
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Post by bunnywailer on May 9, 2010 3:45:26 GMT -5
I doubt it. For whatever reason, Priddy's indoor abilities never really translated themselves to the beach game, for whatever reasons. Maybe if he did devote his time completely to the beach game it might be different. Or got Dalhasser (sp?) as a partner. That would be a start. Yeah, I wonder how long Mr. Grumpy can keep Dalhausser as a partner. |
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Post by Semp12 on May 9, 2010 12:58:09 GMT -5
Priddy is a unbelievable. Good chance this next Olympics we will see him on one of the two US Beach Volleyball teams. I doubt it. For whatever reason, Priddy's indoor abilities never really translated themselves to the beach game, for whatever reasons. Maybe if he did devote his time completely to the beach game it might be different. When you say they aren't translating, you mean the fact that he is a complete stud indoors, and only has a bunch of 9th's on the beach? Considering he hasn't committed much time to the beach, I would consider that doing pretty well. If Roger's decides to push till the next Olympics then there's a pretty good chance we'll see the same two teams at the Olympics (Phil is good enough to win with almost anyone who can side out). If Phil does move on, there will be some shifting. I would say Phil, and whoever the next best big guy at the time, will be picking from Rosie, Nick, and Priddy as their main options. Priddy's inexperience at this time as to be seen as upside because we really don't know how great he could be on the beach. |
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Post by ciscokeed on May 10, 2010 10:39:47 GMT -5
Hey GBOB, Priddy is a remarkable outside, no doubt. But you err in a couple of assumptions- first of all Brazil was bombing jump serves at the end of Karch's era- which forced USA to go to a 3 person serve receive, - but Karch could pass those balls all day... Secondly, Karch's greatness was never his physical ability, but his mental ability to lift his teammates on a daily basis- and an ability to lift his game in big situations. His focus, his incredible winning drive were much like that of a Michael Jordan. He tried to win every drill every day, and that rubbed off on all the great players around him. Those qualities will translate into any era. As for your comment about magnifently crappy blocking- those Russian teams of that era put up a wall...and Brazil and Cuba also had there share of excellent blockers. Now has the game evolved in systems, coaching, and athleticism- absolutely- it is being played better than ever, but no need to disrespect greatness from the past.
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Post by bunnywailer on May 10, 2010 13:40:09 GMT -5
Hey GBOB, Priddy is a remarkable outside, no doubt. But you err in a couple of assumptions- first of all Brazil was bombing jump serves at the end of Karch's era- which forced USA to go to a 3 person serve receive, - but Karch could pass those balls all day... Secondly, Karch's greatness was never his physical ability, but his mental ability to lift his teammates on a daily basis- and an ability to lift his game in big situations. His focus, his incredible winning drive were much like that of a Michael Jordan. He tried to win every drill every day, and that rubbed off on all the great players around him. Those qualities will translate into any era. As for your comment about magnifently crappy blocking- those Russian teams of that era put up a wall...and Brazil and Cuba also had there share of excellent blockers. Now has the game evolved in systems, coaching, and athleticism- absolutely- it is being played better than ever, but no need to disrespect greatness from the past. Wrong. And I have multiple examples of video evidence to prove that. |
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Post by ciscokeed on May 10, 2010 13:50:15 GMT -5
You have video evidence of Karch's mental toughness??
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Post by baywatcher on May 10, 2010 21:28:28 GMT -5
All right, back to the title; it was relatively easy to track Lawson's back row attacks, since almost all his attacks were successful and the order of servers and point scorers is attached to the box score.
In the first set, Lawson attacked backrow twice; the first appeared to be a pipe set right up the middle. The second Lawson backrow attack appeared to be off center (3 of 5) but hard to tell from the side view. Both sets were pretty quick, but that appears to be the mainstay of Stanford setting.
In the 2nd and Third set, the first appeared to be a pipe type set right up the middle that Lawson tipped. The second appeared to be a preset play to the 3 or 2-3 slot, with a fairly long set. The third appeared to be a pipe set down the middle, Shoji off the middle at what I refer to as the B spot (A,B,C from middle out) Next was another Pipe set, with Shoji setting from a significant distance. On the next one, Lawson started in back left, then as the play developed he circled behind the setter, then hit a backset as the MB descended. Next appeared to be a pipe and hit line. I'm sure he hit at least one more middle shot with following the MB to the net, but I forgot to mark that in my notes.
So I didn't see much, if any, adjustment by Lawson to the pass before making his approach; instead, Lawson approached at a pre set slot and it was up to Shoji to get the ball to him. I would think a BIC would depend on the hitter adjusting to the setter and the pass for a truly quick set. If anyone else wants to correct me, I'd be happy to hear how I'm misreading the efforts.
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Post by thumpvb on May 13, 2010 13:05:58 GMT -5
You are basically correct Baywatcher that the set Lawson was running is not a super fast backrow set. It is faster than a pipe though so everyone pretty much refers to that category of set as a "bic"
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Post by bunnywailer on May 13, 2010 15:36:06 GMT -5
You have video evidence of Karch's mental toughness?? Yeah, I do actually. That sure was mentally tough when he flipped off the Brazilians after the Seoul '88 semifinals on national TV and everyone in America could see him mouth "F#c! Y*u!". Just 'cause Priddy or other national team players in other eras don't display jerk behavior on the court doesn't mean they aren't mentally tough. Andrea Giani, the greatest indoor player ever in our sport, is known as a true gentleman both on and off the court. No one has ever questioned his mental toughness or his ability to win at any level. |
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Post by wonderwarthog79 on May 14, 2010 1:24:19 GMT -5
Since we have so many smart people on this board, someone explain to me why the women almost exclusively hit pipe, but the men hit back row on the right also. As a matter of fact, seems to me that it's only been in the last few years that men have hit the pipe much at all. Also, while you're at it, why is it that women middles excel at slides, but men never run that play?
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Post by ucsdfan on May 14, 2010 2:31:40 GMT -5
Since we have so many smart people on this board, someone explain to me why the women almost exclusively hit pipe, but the men hit back row on the right also. As a matter of fact, seems to me that it's only been in the last few years that men have hit the pipe much at all. Also, while you're at it, why is it that women middles excel at slides, but men never run that play? Keenan at Pepperdine used to run the slide (with Mayer I think), and it had an incredibly high success rate. I think it might just be a macho thing not to do it or it's limited by the quickness of the MB getting back to position on defense. I've been hoping some other MB decided to give it a try. |
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Post by head31919 on May 14, 2010 8:33:21 GMT -5
Since we have so many smart people on this board, someone explain to me why the women almost exclusively hit pipe, but the men hit back row on the right also. As a matter of fact, seems to me that it's only been in the last few years that men have hit the pipe much at all. Also, while you're at it, why is it that women middles excel at slides, but men never run that play? Keenan at Pepperdine used to run the slide (with Mayer I think), and it had an incredibly high success rate. I think it might just be a macho thing not to do it or it's limited by the quickness of the MB getting back to position on defense. I've been hoping some other MB decided to give it a try. I seem to recall BYU running a lot of slide about 5-6 years ago. With Batista maybe? My thoughts on the slide and why you see it more in the women's game then the men's: The slide is very effective when your middle can outjump the opposing outside. If you go way down to something like girl's 16s, you will see big middles just demolishing smaller outsides who can't get up to take away any angles. It is much easier to have a smaller outside help block on an A-quick compared to a slide where they are usually drifting like crazy. So, at the junior level, the slide is so common place it just becomes ingrained, the players get better at running it and it goes from there. However, when the outside can match up to the middle, you get a situation where often you are just banging the ball into the block hoping to tool it. I think even in women's vball you are seeing the slide become a little less effective as the outsides get so much bigger and athletic. Foluke dominated with it, but I can remember a few times when high-profile middles were slowed or stopped significantly on the slides when they got to playoff matches against teams who had outsides who could match them physically. I am just going off memory here, so don't kill me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember Harmotto for PSU (who was either 2nd or 3rd in hitting % and an All-American) really struggling to terminate the slide when Stanford had Klineman on the left. There's always going to be that trickle-down effect from the men's game to the women's and I think that, as the women's game gets more and more 6'3"-6'5" outsides who are athletic enough and are spending time in the National Development pipeline, you are going to see those teams be able to shut down the slide. I think then you might then see the slide go a bit out of style. It's never going to totally disappear though, just come and go in different forms. It's like football, Urban Meyer "revolutionized" college football with the basic veer-option that every pewee team in the country had been doing for 50 years, he just did it out of the shotgun and added a few tweaks and suddenly nobody could stop it. Just like stack/tandem plays went out of style and came back in the form of the bic. |
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Post by lonewolf on May 14, 2010 8:49:48 GMT -5
Since we have so many smart people on this board, someone explain to me why the women almost exclusively hit pipe, but the men hit back row on the right also. As a matter of fact, seems to me that it's only been in the last few years that men have hit the pipe much at all. Also, while you're at it, why is it that women middles excel at slides, but men never run that play? As with the pipes and bic's in system, the men's game tends to be a little a head of the larger chunk of the women's game. Over the last 2 years there have been more teams using the right back attack along with pipe, and it is a trend that I believe will continue to grow. Also, due to the sub rule differences...there are a lot more 5-1's with hitters playing right back in the men's game than you will find in the women's game due to the ability to run a 6-2 easier, along with the ability to use consistent back row subs to play that position for a hitter. As far as the slide goes...2 reasons I can think of off the top of my head. 1, with the lack of the right back attack, it is an easier way to get a hitter to that area of the court. 2, in the men's game...the movement of the slide is less efficient against bigger blockers that can take up the space faster, along with the fact that it isn't as efficient against a team that can swing block correctly. |
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luvb9
Sophomore
Posts: 115
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Post by luvb9 on May 14, 2010 12:22:19 GMT -5
Lonewolf hit the nail right on the head.
With Hugh at the helm of the US Team you are going to see substantial trickle down in to the girls programs of what the men currently do. To name a few things, more jump serving, more out of midline passing and defending, more back row attacking, swing blocking, and faster sets to the pins. He is basically pushing anything that encourages the players to be better athletes. Amen.
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