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Post by thevolleymaster on Apr 3, 2007 17:34:32 GMT -5
Cala is definitely one of the most talented OHs in the nation if not the best, but his one flaw is passing. He is built to jump and hit over people but his platform is not the greatest... if teams are going to exploit one flaw from BYU it is the passing. Perez and Cala are not the greatest passing combo. Don't get me wrong Cala deserves 1st team AA but not POY. Winder or Carrol will get it imo. Perez does not have enough kills and points per game to be on 1st team AA, if you look at the difference between 1st team and 2nd team it is the number of sets that person gets and their individual statistics... regardless of how the team is doing. For example... Evan Patak
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Post by thor on Apr 3, 2007 17:57:54 GMT -5
True, but there has been guys who made first team AA with less than 4kpg and a high hitting %, such as Hawaii's Ching and Hakala a few years back... I'm sure there are others too. Perez is at 3.55 kpg now... I say if he has either 3.6 something or 3.7 kpg he ll be 1st team. His hitting % .370 is very impressive though. byu plays uop and ucsd twice to end the regular season, a good chance to put up some numbers. And also, passing is definitely byu's weakness, however in provo teams have harder time serving so they can't exploit it as much.
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Post by fanof2 on Apr 3, 2007 19:02:52 GMT -5
Winners get the awards. Winder and Carroll are front runners. For ROY, no one has less experience (club or D1) than Gaudino
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Post by vbreject on Apr 4, 2007 1:48:08 GMT -5
How is Evan Patak not included in this discussion? He is the best player in college, by a long shot. Just look at his hitting numbers and serving numbers. However, he doesn't have the teammates to back him up like every other candidate that you are talking about. Therefore, it will probably go to Jon Winder.
By the way, ROY= William Price (George Mason)
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Post by ocmyhome on Apr 4, 2007 9:39:32 GMT -5
I agree w/ some others remarks about Pepp. Winning shouldn't go unnoticed and I think that's how people vote most of the time. So someone on Pepps team will get it. Probably Winder. So that's who I think will win according to voting, not who I necessarily think deserves it.
Patak is a big candidate for who deserves it. Leads in aces, kills, points... Need I say more.
As far as BYU goes and their players. I'm a big Y fan, and would love nothing more than for one of them to win it, but it's been mentioned before, I think their too balanced and no one has really stepped up to be THE MAN, when it comes to POY. But I definately feel the talents there, and if someone did pull ahead next year and shine as THE MAN, then any of them could vie for the POY next year, but not now.
Someone mentioned Moreno from the 2004 team and what a joke that was he got it. To be honest, he was the best setter in 04, and beat the runner up, LBSU, 4 times that year. I don't think anyone else really earned it over him either. Maybe it was a down year for POY honors that year? But I feel he was deserving.
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Post by matt4pres on Apr 4, 2007 15:12:19 GMT -5
Patak is a great player. He has the best serve by far but he is not the best player by far. If Carrol, Cala, or Perez got has many sets a game for lack of options as he does, they might all lead in points. He is barely a head of Carrol in all those categoies anyway (besides aces). Carrol just dropped to #2 in kills this week and he has not been hogging all the sets. When UCLA played Pepperdine this week they decided to go all Paul and forgot put a blocker of Pep's outsides. Thus the sets went to the unblocked outsides instaed of Paul. All that to say, If you get 1000 sets a game and you put away 25, then you are going to lead in kills. Patak is a great player, but no far and away the best.
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Post by Mac on Apr 4, 2007 15:36:13 GMT -5
Patak is a great player. He has the best serve by far but he is not the best player by far. If Carrol, Cala, or Perez got has many sets a game for lack of options as he does, they might all lead in points. He is barely a head of Carrol in all those categoies anyway (besides aces). Carrol just dropped to #2 in kills this week and he has not been hogging all the sets. When UCLA played Pepperdine this week they decided to go all Paul and forgot put a blocker of Pep's outsides. Thus the sets went to the unblocked outsides instaed of Paul. All that to say, If you get 1000 sets a game and you put away 25, then you are going to lead in kills. Patak is a great player, but no far and away the best. This is a good post and brings out precisely what is on my mind. A good team will be able to spread out the offense and have many guys in double figures when the match is over. That will take the spotlight off an individual player. We did hold down Carroll in the UCLA match, but while those who look at stats think stats tell the whole story and dictate who gets post-season honors, it is a good exmple of how a player can contribute to a team's success even when he isn't getting many sets. He was drawing attention while they set their other outsides and I hope they gave him a big "thank you" after the match. UCLA's run to the championship last year was filled with those examples which resulted in zero post season honors for their players when, hey call me crazy, someone from that team was deserving of at least a second team AVCA AA. But most don't know how to measure the intangibles of this sport. We have also been able to contain Patak. I would say this is a good year to give a dual POY award. Take away either Carroll or Winder from the Pepp team and they are a vastly differnet team, IMO. If they make it to the FF I'd say they deserve co-POYs. I also think it is time these kinds of awards are given out when the season is done, or after the conference tourney. Winning has to account for something. We've seen many players get high post season honors over the most recent last few years who have failed to get it done when it's all said and done. One of the problems with this sport is that the MPSF doesn't stagger its matches well. We all have so many conflicts, it's very difficult to get to other's matches when your team is playing at the same time. I have only seen Pepp play three times this year, and two of them were against the Bruins. Am I qualified to have a bona fide opinion of these issues when I've seen them so little? I question that. I would love to see the MPSF matches spread out from Wed through Saturday so we can go to see other teams play more often.
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Post by ocmyhome on Apr 4, 2007 15:49:38 GMT -5
Well if this is a "who's the best outside hitter if they got all the sets" then yea, I agree with you. Carrol, Cala and Perez would be dominant there! Cases could be made by all. As long as we're hypothesizing and speculating, I think Cala would come out on top, given he gets the sets. He's the Best hitter and has the most potential and more to work with.
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Post by Mac on Apr 4, 2007 16:38:52 GMT -5
Well if this is a "who's the best outside hitter if they got all the sets" then yea, I agree with you. Carrol, Cala and Perez would be dominant there! Cases could be made by all. As long as we're hypothesizing and speculating, I think Cala would come out on top, given he gets the sets. He's the Best hitter and has the most potential and more to work with. Well, thank God it doesn't work like that. I believe the stat that is far more important than kills is "Points!" We don't give enough credit to an all around great player who scores points with kills, blocks and aces. And in fact, a player who is dominant blocker also causes opponents to hit around them through intimidation and that then results in hitting errors. There is more to being a great volleyball "POY" caliber player than someone who is a monster killer.
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Post by volleyfred on Apr 5, 2007 0:02:58 GMT -5
This whole stuff about Patak getting all of the sets, Pepperdine with a balanced offence...
Right now,
Patak is getting 11.0 sets per game. With 5.57 kills per game. Hitting .338. 546 total kills.
Carroll is getting 10.8 sets per game. With 5.64 kills per game. Hitting .374. 457 total kills.
Also,
Patak has 100 aces. 100!
Carroll has 50 aces.
Patak has some 5'8" guy who faces where he sets, or Alix Kleinman's brother setting him, which ever one isn't awful that week.
Carroll has Winder, the best setter in the Nation, and future Olympic team starter setting him.
Without Patak, UCSB wouldn't make the playoffs.
Without Carroll, Pepperdine would still be in the top 4 in the MPSF.
Oh, and did I mention Patak has 100 aces to Carroll's 50?
It's Patak.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 5, 2007 0:14:36 GMT -5
Too bad the only give POY to the goons who have the highest kpg or aces on the stat sheet. I'd vote for UCI's libero. That guy is a damn good volleyball player.
Either him or Winder. That guy is smooth. So's Beckwith but we don't get to see it since UH is sorta not too good this season.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 5, 2007 0:18:57 GMT -5
Patak probably won't get POY since UCSB is going to get bounced out in the playoffs, most likely during the semis but conceivably in the first-round. Talk about perpetual underachievers, but that's what you get with a tenured coach. Oh well.
As far as who is actually the better player? Carroll, by a longshot. Patak pounds balls from the right and the D, and bombs jumpserves, but the rest of his game is just okay. Carroll possesses a higher skill level in more areas, and is an effective hitter from both sides of the net and all backrow hitting zones. Damn good blocker and server, good defender in the backrow, and good ball-control skills too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2007 0:29:11 GMT -5
Is it just me, or has Jablonsky just fallen off the map for a guy who's the defending player of the year? Maybe this is one of those cases of a very balanced team in UC-Irvine.
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Post by volleyfred on Apr 5, 2007 1:44:55 GMT -5
I really think that Carroll is great. I think that people don't give Patak enough credit for hitting off of inconsistent setters, which ever one is setting.
And the difference between the two is serving.
Think about this, Carroll is arguably the second best server in the nation... And Patak has 50 more aces than Carroll does! Which is 2x as many! Patak is about to do something that we may not see in another 10-20 years. Having 1 ace per game, in the MPSF.
That would be like 4 digs a game for a MPSF libero. Or 2.5 blocks per game for a middle in the MPSF.
I wouldn't think it wrong for Carroll to get POY, after all, his team has only 1 loss. And, he is pretty darn good. But remember, that 1 loss came when Winder was not playing. Just imagine how many loses they would have if Pepperdine had the setters UCSB have, and not the best setter in the nation. How good would Carroll be?
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Post by thor on Apr 5, 2007 3:41:24 GMT -5
Good posts, people... Although Patak is dominant, it is true that Carroll's all-around game (he passes ok, plays defence) is way better. Patak's team is not as high in the standings as Carroll's and Winder's, and team's success is an important factor! Also, aren't all the AA and POY decided after the regular season? So we don't get to wait and see who's really good when it counts. Patak might have 100 (which is ridiculous, I know) but there are many players who don't get aces but people score a lot on their serve. Carroll might not get the same amount of aces as patak, but his serve is really not that much worse. Patak's runs often end on his service error, on Carroll people get a pass and side out more. These are not checked statistical facts though, just a feeling I have... As far as UCLA and post-season awards last year... Nobody deserved them after the regular season. Luckily only the last poll matters in the end, and that is when those guys played well. With beckwith and UH's season... who knows how things would be if the coaches hadn't messed with everybody on that team, positions, line-ups...What a mess. However, although UH won't be getting post-season/AA awards (maybe Dante), they still have the same chance to come back and be good in the end. It still is a team sport, all the great individuals, AA etc. included. I don't know who threw asuka in the mix...That's just funny He is good but there are better liberos than him... And for crying out loud let's leave that position out of this discussion, no matter how good you are as a libero, POY goes to a guy who is the true difference maker. Patak, Winder and Carroll all deserve it, we'll see if it'll be a co-POY.
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