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Post by roy on Apr 5, 2007 3:46:31 GMT -5
For Patak, the aces is a real strong argument for him. Unfortunately, team record is also a huge factor in the equation, and I think that gives Carroll the edge.
Part of the problem with using the "UCSB doesn't have the overall talent Pepperdine has" or the "Without Patak, UCSB have more trouble than Pepperdine without Carroll" is that you have to consider the contributions of all teams top stars. Price of Loyola Chicago would have to be considered for POY using that logic as Loyola would possibly be in more trouble without him than UCSB without Patak or Pepperdine without Carroll. To push the argument even further, you would have to consider Lanier of Mt. Olive as his team probably wouldn't be doing as well as they are without him.
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Post by Mac on Apr 5, 2007 12:04:02 GMT -5
All I can say about LUC or BSU is that there was no one on the floor for either team who demonstrated deserved consideration for AA let alone POY consideration when they came out here to play the Bruins. Now... back to Carrol, Windor and Patak.
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Post by palo on Apr 5, 2007 12:21:21 GMT -5
For Patak, the aces is a real strong argument for him. Unfortunately, team record is also a huge factor in the equation, and I think that gives Carroll the edge. Part of the problem with using the "UCSB doesn't have the overall talent Pepperdine has" or the "Without Patak, UCSB have more trouble than Pepperdine without Carroll" is that you have to consider the contributions of all teams top stars. Price of Loyola Chicago would have to be considered for POY using that logic as Loyola would possibly be in more trouble without him than UCSB without Patak or Pepperdine without Carroll. To push the argument even further, you would have to consider Lanier of Mt. Olive as his team probably wouldn't be doing as well as they are without him. Will Price is actually at George Mason. |
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Post by palo on Apr 5, 2007 12:23:38 GMT -5
All I can say about LUC or BSU is that there was no one on the floor for either team who demonstrated deserved consideration for AA let alone POY consideration when they came out here to play the Bruins. Possibly, but its hard to look like an AA when the passing is terrible. Just ask Hawaii what they thought of Grunst's performance at Outrigger. |
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Post by matt4pres on Apr 5, 2007 12:24:03 GMT -5
To add another twist to the arguement who do you think is more unique or special. Take for example, Patak. Very rarely do we see an outside hitter who looks like he coudl be a line backer in the NFL. he brings a different element to the game. On the other hand look an Winder. I am not sure that we have ever seen a setter that tall, fast, and skilled before. Winder turns Pepperdine overpasses into points. He is one of the best blockers in the country. I think winder deserves it becuase he is so rare as well as valueable. What do you think. P.S. For those of you who have not seen him in person or stood next to him he is much taller that what it says on his profile. Marv is notorious for deflating players hieghts
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Post by palo on Apr 5, 2007 12:27:58 GMT -5
Patak should and will be 1st team AA, however, I feel the POY usually is the best player from the best team. Unless Patak was just so far statistically beyond everyone else in the field it should go to Winder or Carroll.
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Post by CityTechLegend on Apr 5, 2007 13:57:05 GMT -5
I will just say one name...
Carroll, Pepperdine
NUMBERS SAY IT ALL...
He has been one of the most consistant BALLAZZ all season. He has put up numbers ever night against EVERYONE!!! Heck (I lied) add CO-MVP's Winder and him. They are a great pairing when it comes to quaterback-receiver combos (you know what I mean).
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Post by volleyfred on Apr 5, 2007 14:08:17 GMT -5
Carroll, Pepperdine NUMBERS SAY IT ALL... Really? Numbers like 100 aces to 50 aces? |
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Post by scorpianraider on Apr 5, 2007 15:34:03 GMT -5
I think it has to go to Winder.
Patak's numbers are amazing, there is no arguement there but he is not a great passer nor is he a great blocker.
Carroll's number's are almost as nice with better passing and blocking numbers, but more of an offensive threat.
In any other year either one of them would more than likely run away with the POY voting.
But I would have to give the award to Winder. Pepperdine is in the top 5 or 6 in hitting percentage, he is in the top 3 in assists per game, he solid blocking numbers and leads the team in digs per game not to mention he gets to so many would-be overpasses that turn into kills. Winder really is the x-factor. He is the best all around player in the NCAA this season. I really don't think it is close. He might also be leading his team in hitting percentage. Granted, he takes less swings but how do you defend him hitting on two?
Teams can game-plan to limit Patak/Carroll because neither can be stopped. But there is no way to game-plan stopping Winder.
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Post by Mac on Apr 5, 2007 15:36:45 GMT -5
But without Carroll, Winder isn't going to see the success you appropriately lay out. I say co-award.
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Post by tothelimit99 on Apr 5, 2007 16:49:59 GMT -5
I'm gonna say that Winder is POY, just edging out Patak. I don't think Carroll really has a chance this year with POY, mainly because he's a Sophomore. Next year Carroll has the better chance because he will probably be leading the nation in points, kills and aces cuz Pepp's going to be the Winder/Carroll show, with a little Schleppenbach mixed in. Evan is a great player, but he just doesn't affect the game like a 6'8 setter with money hands does. It's Winder's award to lose, and I don't think that he will. Evan will be a 4x AA, and that's nothing to spit at. Not many people can claim to be a 3x 1st teamer in their careers. But stats aren't everything when it comes to POY. Let us remember one Jayson Jablonsky last year. He wasn't leading the league in much of anything, but was a great player on a great team.
It seems like every other year a Pepp player in POY. Keenan 02, Rooney 04 (VB Mag) and 05, and hopefully Winder in 07.
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Post by northbeach on Apr 5, 2007 17:44:05 GMT -5
On the other hand look an Winder. I am not sure that we have ever seen a setter that tall, fast, and skilled before. Winder turns Pepperdine overpasses into points. He is one of the best blockers in the country. I think winder deserves it becuase he is so rare as well as valueable. What do you think. P.S. For those of you who have not seen him in person or stood next to him he is much taller that what it says on his profile. Marv is notorious for deflating players hieghts I think it's the other coaches who fudge their player's heights. The Pepp player's heights on the roster are pretty accurate, from what I have observed. Part of it is because they tend to recruit trees and when you have a lot of "short" players, the coaches may feel more of a need to inflate their height. |
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OC4
Sophomore
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Post by OC4 on Apr 5, 2007 22:03:05 GMT -5
On the other hand look an Winder. I am not sure that we have ever seen a setter that tall, fast, and skilled before. Winder turns Pepperdine overpasses into points. He is one of the best blockers in the country. I think winder deserves it becuase he is so rare as well as valueable. What do you think. P.S. For those of you who have not seen him in person or stood next to him he is much taller that what it says on his profile. Marv is notorious for deflating players hieghts I think it's the other coaches who fudge their player's heights. The Pepp player's heights on the roster are pretty accurate, from what I have observed. Part of it is because they tend to recruit trees and when you have a lot of "short" players, the coaches may feel more of a need to inflate their height. Winder is a legit 6'9" no matter what the roster says. |
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Post by matt4pres on Apr 6, 2007 0:07:28 GMT -5
I can not speak for other coaches and what they do but Marv definitly deflates hieght. It rounds way down. Shoes off, sloaching, standing down hill. For example Winder and Carrol are the same hieght basically. Carrol is listed at 6'7 and winder is 6'8. Hulse is also listed at 6'8 yet he is shorter that both winder and Carrol. I also am related to one of the players who is also listed shorter that he really is. Whatever the case Pep is a bunch of trees.
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Post by thor on Apr 6, 2007 1:38:00 GMT -5
The fact that Carroll is a sophomore has nothing to do it with POY. You re good enough, you ll get it. Costas got it his sophomore year. And Patak will be 3-time AA, last year he wasn't eligible in the end.
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