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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 14, 2013 14:04:39 GMT -5
cwpsy.....Old School lives on, but so do 1957 Thunderbirds....No better car (that would be based on ONE'S definition)...anyway, it DOES live on (Zephyr Cove Tahoe, etc.!), but the REALITY of it is: ITS OVER....there are niches where it is played and will always be played, but FIVB, AVP, etc. The pros, from what I surmise, roll their eyes at the mention (Remember Kerri and Manhattan!). The OLD DAYS were always better, Elvis, Eisenhower, B&W TV, but when you pull up the curtain its not always as good as remembered (discrimination, etc.). I WILL give you that rally score was interesting and fun, but the basics of current play are not THAT different if looked at objectively and not through the "glasses" of nostalgia....One can ALWAYS argue: "Should you REALLY be able to hit a ball into a net and not be penalized AT ALL, except loss of serve"....Oh well, .... AND, is beach volleyball REALLY a "stamina" thing? Don't some of the tourney guys play from 8am to 5pm ANYWAY, currently....Oh well, Tourney's were won in the past with people cramping at 8pm or having headlights light the court with a SKYBALL coming...uh, better? Well.....
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cwpsy
Sophomore
Posts: 117
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Post by cwpsy on Jan 15, 2013 15:13:03 GMT -5
<---won the semifinals of the Pottstown AA many moons ago by sidespinning skyballs beyond the lights against a great father-son Duo...the Lapps. I am an unrepentant "old school player" who loved beating those taller, "better" players with only stamina and skill. Too bad those are qualities that FIVB doesn't deem fit for TV or "our" sport (who's sport is it anyway?). But I remember, it made for a heck of a show.
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Post by kokyu on Jan 15, 2013 22:49:21 GMT -5
'Ironically' old school AVP made for much better TV even when they had to edit out parts of the match to fit the time slots. When Sinjin went up against Karch in 96 semis, late in the match, neck to neck, Sinjin was popping skyballs. What suspense waiting for the ball to come down! Credit to Karch he only slightly shanked one but not enough for them to not side out on the play.
The kiddie court and safe play pretty much took away skyballs from the game, shame. Make no mistake about it, a real skyball is not an easy skill to master.
OLD SCHOOL = volleyball.
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 16, 2013 12:42:04 GMT -5
OK, I think many players are so enamored with "Old School" that they no longer objectively evaluate the game. They do as players, but as fans, not so much. If the "problem" with our sport were the rules, we would have ALREADY switched back as the players would have revolted and "returned" to the confines of the rules "they love"... that being said, most rules were developed, NOT as a solution to the best "offering" but an alternative to "basketball" so men could return to work less "encumbered by the workout"... I still sit courtside at Hermosa, Santa Barbara (Santa Cruz: I WISH), Huntington etc. and say "what better sport to watch is there than THIS?"...
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Post by kokyu on Jan 16, 2013 13:27:49 GMT -5
Well to be fair beach been dead for 13 years so let's hope they revert the rules to make a revival possible.
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 16, 2013 13:58:26 GMT -5
I think beach has been UNPROFITABLE but hardly "dead", but that is up to one's definition. I find "old school rules" very similar to "People won't pay to watch beach volleyball". There is a VERY vocal group about the past re. beach volleyball and I am not so sure they share the sentiments of the population as a whole....
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Post by geddyleemarvin on Jan 16, 2013 14:24:44 GMT -5
Beach will never go back to old school. Like cassettes and and VCRs, old school is a dead technology, so to speak. The FIVB loves short court/rally scoring, as does the IOC, NBC and so on. Beach volleyball's popularity/lack of popularity at the pro level has jack-all to do with the switch to new rules.
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Post by kokyu on Jan 16, 2013 14:39:53 GMT -5
There is a VERY vocal group about the past re. beach volleyball and I am not so sure they share the sentiments of the population as a whole.... Believe mostly age demographic, young people never experienced it so can't miss what they don't know. Luckily and ironically I play with college students who like the old court and rules better though. If there's any chance for beach in the future it'll be old school that'll bring it back.
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 16, 2013 17:21:35 GMT -5
GLM, we "tried", but from the posts, it looks like you can't "shoot a dead OLD SCHOOL volleyball horse", metaphorically speaking...
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cwpsy
Sophomore
Posts: 117
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Post by cwpsy on Jan 17, 2013 0:35:47 GMT -5
The FIVB loves short court/rally scoring, as does the IOC, NBC and so on. Beach volleyball's popularity/lack of popularity at the pro level has jack-all to do with the switch to new rules. I agree, the groups above have taken "our sport" and made it something for mass consumption. Unfortunately, the USA public isn't embracing the sport (except for the Olympics and bikinis). Maybe the addition of beach into the NCAA will help to grow awareness of our small niche sport. More girls should start getting into the game as the scholarship opportunities start to bloom. But "old school" is still the only true game...forever!
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 17, 2013 2:18:45 GMT -5
Not to reiterate what GLM & others have said, but: IT'S OVER....(repeat 621 times). Unless you've prepared a "white paper" for the FIVB Federation and plan to present it in person in Brazil, again, it is "OVER". We played (correct me if I'm wrong) it THIRTEEN YEARS AGO, its OVER........
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Post by guest2 on Jan 17, 2013 9:05:44 GMT -5
Beach will never go back to old school. Like cassettes and and VCRs, old school is a dead technology, so to speak. The FIVB loves short court/rally scoring, as does the IOC, NBC and so on. Beach volleyball's popularity/lack of popularity at the pro level has jack-all to do with the switch to new rules. BVB may never go back to old school rules but that doesnt mean the switch had nothing to do with the lack of popularity. Its a fundamental business axiom that keeping customers is easier than getting new ones and the post Sinjin/Randy/Karch era story of beach volleyball has been a consistent loss of old customers. Places like Milwaukee where 20k used to show up, probably couldnt get 5,000 at a weekend event now. Its the same a lot of other places. Many of the core fans, including myself, like the current rules and game much less. I used to drive to Belmar every year and Florida occasionally to see tournaments (I lived in North Carolina then), as well as going to Baltimore, DC, and Virginia Beach when there were tournaments there. A couple years ago the tour was in VA Beach, the year before in Ocean City Maryland and I was living in DC. Those were the beaches I went to on vacation. I never thought of going. When the game is on TV I watch if I have nothing better to do, whereas before I planned around it, if it was a big tourney anyway I know a lot of fans that left the sport around the same time. A lot of that was mismanagement, lack of events some years and a ton of other stuff, but a big part of it was changing the rules and alienating a large part of the core audience
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 17, 2013 12:44:55 GMT -5
I hear ya guest2; I know the discussion of whats wrong with the "model" of beach volleyball is putting many to sleep these days, BUT, I believe, there IS a model that will work, but what that is is probably a combination of many resources used in past and present tourneys DONE RIGHT (the solutions is usually in the "middle")...Even in '12, I would have to get my data on tourneys from Pavlik/Kropp's Facebook feed to know times of TV coverage etc. (and YES, promoters, I KNOW the data was probably present elsewhere, but REMEMBER your customer is never doing the wrong thing, YOU aren't tracking what he/she is doing and marketing to THAT)...Regardless, I will SIT on my "solution" (WHICH IS: Customers need to KNOW NAMES of players) as germane to beach getting back to its heyday... Once I became familiar with John Hyden, Mayer and, YES, Camacho, etc., I was hooked and will always be.....Without those to follow, its just another sport moving an object around....Oh well...
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Post by geddyleemarvin on Jan 17, 2013 13:57:10 GMT -5
The AVP was in serious decline well before new rules came into play. The tour went bankrupt in 1997, due to general disinterest on the part of sponsors and NBC/ESPN. Beach volley was no longer the "in thing." The sport actually expierenced a minor renaissance after new rules were implemented, with the popularity of Misty/Kerri being a driving force. But the economy and poor management eventually drove the tour into bankruptcy once again.
Rule changes had little-to-nothing to do with the sport's fortunes. Its been a combination of economic climate and changing consumer tastes.
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 18, 2013 2:17:13 GMT -5
Nobody walks by “Court 1” at Main Beach Santa Cruz when the AAA’s are going strong and doesn’t look over and watch/stare….If one can’t turn the Hermosa/Manhattan/Huntington,etc. attendance into $$$’s, its not for any reason other than “creativity”. Every Wine & Art faire you’ll go to over the next few months is not bringing in attendance CLOSE to those number and THEY’RE making money….Just sayn’…Have nothing to back this up, antecdotal story etc.…but really, no money in beach? SELL ME a Rosenthal jersey or somefin…..
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