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Post by volleyguy on Apr 14, 2020 15:27:21 GMT -5
is the pissing match over yet? Please let me know. It never started. 'Volley guy' can't actually talk about volleyball. I've had a million and one conversations with arrogant, know-it-all wanna-be coaches wanting to make a name for themselves, just like you. Most of them flame out, just like you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 15:33:23 GMT -5
It never started. 'Volley guy' can't actually talk about volleyball. I've had a million and one conversations with arrogant, know-it-all wanna-be coaches wanting to make a name for themselves, just like you. Most of them flame out, just like you. A million and one, huh? Shouldn't that tell you something? And you keep posting about anything BUT volleyball and dodging any question which exposes your ignorance on the game. You'd have looked less foolish if you'd just admitted that you had no idea what I was asking you. "I watch matches on my own"... Sure you do, sport.
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 14, 2020 15:41:16 GMT -5
I've had a million and one conversations with arrogant, know-it-all wanna-be coaches wanting to make a name for themselves, just like you. Most of them flame out, just like you. A million and one, huh? Shouldn't that tell you something? And you keep posting about anything BUT volleyball and dodging any question which exposes your ignorance on the game. You'd have looked less foolish if you'd just admitted that you had no idea what I was asking you. "I watch matches on my own"... Sure you do, sport. That isn't the correct quote, sport.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 16:04:02 GMT -5
A million and one, huh? Shouldn't that tell you something? And you keep posting about anything BUT volleyball and dodging any question which exposes your ignorance on the game. You'd have looked less foolish if you'd just admitted that you had no idea what I was asking you. "I watch matches on my own"... Sure you do, sport. That isn't the correct quote, sport. Haha, still trying to avoid talking about volleyball? Just admit you have no earthly idea why Kenzie Knuckles passed from Z1 in 3 rotations this year and stop pretending you're a 'volley guy'.
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Post by donut on Apr 14, 2020 16:04:42 GMT -5
@bigwestfan2 : two genuine questions for you. 1) Do you think it is possible there are other contributory factors to Lexi Sun's drop in passing, or is the replacement of Knuckles for Maloney the only factor? and 2) Do you think that every single time an "elite libero" is replaced by a "weaker libero," the passing numbers of the other primary passers go down? 1) Sure, it's possible. I've never said it wasn't. But having looked at the film, the loss of Maloney definitely impacted Sun and I'm a big believer of Occam's Razor when applied to volley. 2) There's no need to make an absolute statement here. Why do you guys keep wanting to reframe a really simple situation? Deal with a real-world instance. We were talking about a specific passer at the same college two years running, with different supporting players. The numbers suggested that Sun had uncharacteristically dropped from her first two years. Given the circumstances, the most common answer would be that she'd suddenly had greater responsibility and she was struggling with it. Thank you! The issue is, you did make absolute statements about the above, such as the below: And yes, it happens with every elite passer, unless they (as with JWO - Maloney) are replaced by another elite Bro. It works in reverse obviously too. Since you wanted to know if Fleck would've helped Sun; she replaced the graduating UCSB Libero in 2019 but the other two passers remained the same. Ruddins went from a 1.99 passer in 2018 to 2.13 in 2019. The other starting outside (already a good passer) went from 2.12 to 2.32 which was one of the higher numbers for an OH in the country because she also had fewer responsibilities. But again, we don't need a trend for you to understand this. I just gave you a crash course in how & why a Libero helps. Go compare any Nebraska match from 2018 to 2019. I want you to read all of this next bit genuinely, because I'm not trying to come for you. I don't think posters have any issue with your data at all, as you've mentioned a few times in this thread. On the contrary, I'm really appreciative of the evidentiary insights you provide. I think what posters, including volleyguy and others in this thread, have difficulty with, is when you make causal or overly broad conclusions stemming from your data. Just because a datapoint is factual (if we accept that it is factual), does not mean an inference drawn from that datapoint is factual. Because you have already admitted that there may be other explanations to why Sun's passing dropped off, your statement that her passing dropped off because of Knuckles isn't a fact. It's a theory. Your anecdotal evidence of specific instances in that game support that theory, but they do not prove that theory. And for the record, I think you have a strong theory! Correlation (i.e. if a strong passing libero is replaced by a weak passing libero, and if the other passers remain the same, then the other passers GP % is going to decrease) is going to require hefty amounts of data to show, and even then, it might not even be a very significant relationship. Further, proving causation between those two elements, is going to be near impossible. If you understand all of the above, I believe you, but your posts don't read that way. They read very declarative of conclusions not proven by the data you provide. A data point usually doesn't stand for much on its own, other than the data point itself. If you go back and read posts from other "data guys" on the forum (i.e. huskergeek, bluepenquin) you will notice that even after 1000s of simulations with 1000s of rows of data, they were/are always hesitant to make inferential statements, and usually if they had one, they qualified it heavily and clarified what the data actually showed (usually some type of weak/strong relationship). I think that's just what posters expect from a self-proclaimed (and again, very appreciated) "data guy."
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 14, 2020 16:17:23 GMT -5
That isn't the correct quote, sport. Haha, still trying to avoid talking about volleyball? Just admit you have no earthly idea why Kenzie Knuckles passed from Z1 in 3 rotations this year and stop pretending you're a 'volley guy'. You have no power here, Stormcrow.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 14, 2020 17:28:11 GMT -5
Could Sun have been carrying a secret injury that also impeded her? SURE! Technically she had very public back & quad injuries.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 17:43:06 GMT -5
Could Sun have been carrying a secret injury that also impeded her? SURE! Technically she had very public back & quad injuries. The 2018 back injury? She played in every match in 2019. I'm glad you used that word though. Watch her passing technique... It hasn't changed from last year to this. She is still uncomfortable moving more than a few steps in SR. She still hops on contact. Exactly the same issues. She just didn't have to play those balls in 2018. Could there have been other factors? Maybe. But you can see a big one if you just compare this year to last in game film. Especially when Sun is in Z6.
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 14, 2020 18:14:57 GMT -5
Could Sun have been carrying a secret injury that also impeded her? SURE! Technically she had very public back & quad injuries. This is where you are confused, and it's not the first time. I wasn't quizzing you on Lexi Sun per se. I was quizzing you on the weaknesses and fallacies of your argumentation and conclusions. And you came through for me like a champ in that regard. I also wasn't interested in debating your theory because, quite frankly, if I wanted to delve into why Lexi's passing fell off so, I could simply ask John Cook. I have no need for your speculations or theories. I'm 100% absolutely certain he would have a lot more insight than you. And then there's the issue of what you don't know. If you dropped some of your know it all arrogance and defensiveness, you might see the possibility of other explanations without needing to look anywhere else than your own words. It's clear that she has difficulty moving a few steps (slight paraphrase) ... obviously not all issues related to players are known widely or publically, and rightfully so. Regardless of what you perceive your worth here to be on this anonymous site, you're probably not doing yourself any favors. So, wise up buckaroo--or don't, if you're not inclined.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 18:20:42 GMT -5
Technically she had very public back & quad injuries. This is where you are confused, and it's not the first time. I wasn't quizzing you on Lexi Sun per se. I was quizzing you on the weaknesses and fallacies of your argumentation and conclusions. And you came through for me like a champ in that regard. I also wasn't interested in debating your theory because, quite frankly, if I wanted to delve into why Lexi's passing fell off so, I could simply ask John Cook. I have no need for your speculations or theories. I'm 100% absolutely certain he would have a lot more insight than you. And then there's the issue of what you don't know. If you dropped some of your know it all arrogance and defensiveness, you might see the possibility of other explanations without needing to look anywhere else than your own words. It's clear that she has difficulty moving a few steps (slight paraphrase) ... obviously not all issues related to players are known widely or publically, and rightfully so. Regardless of what you perceive your worth here to be on this anonymous site, you're probably not doing yourself any favors. So, wise up buckaroo--or don't, if you're not inclined. So you still can't work out why Kenzie Knuckles was passing in Z1 for 3 rotations? Which 3 rotations were they? Post about volley, Volley guy. (Speaking of logical fallacies btw, nice appeal to authority. "I know John Cook so I'm special." As others here know, I've got some contacts on the coaching staff too. But I don't need to ask them to teach me about volleyball!)
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 14, 2020 18:29:11 GMT -5
This is where you are confused, and it's not the first time. I wasn't quizzing you on Lexi Sun per se. I was quizzing you on the weaknesses and fallacies of your argumentation and conclusions. And you came through for me like a champ in that regard. I also wasn't interested in debating your theory because, quite frankly, if I wanted to delve into why Lexi's passing fell off so, I could simply ask John Cook. I have no need for your speculations or theories. I'm 100% absolutely certain he would have a lot more insight than you. And then there's the issue of what you don't know. If you dropped some of your know it all arrogance and defensiveness, you might see the possibility of other explanations without needing to look anywhere else than your own words. It's clear that she has difficulty moving a few steps (slight paraphrase) ... obviously not all issues related to players are known widely or publically, and rightfully so. Regardless of what you perceive your worth here to be on this anonymous site, you're probably not doing yourself any favors. So, wise up buckaroo--or don't, if you're not inclined. So you still can't work out why Kenzie Knuckles was passing in Z1 for 3 rotations? Which 3 rotations were they? Post about volley, Volley guy. (Speaking of logical fallacies btw, nice appeal to authority. "I know John Cook so I'm special." As others here know, I've got some contacts on the coaching staff too. But I don't need to ask them to teach me about volleyball!) It's not a logical fallacy when the "authority" is her head coach, sees her in the gym, coaches her in every match, things which neither you nor I do. But nice try. Also, goading may work with your 12 year old club kids or half-wit friends--or with YOU--but not here.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 18:41:16 GMT -5
So you still can't work out why Kenzie Knuckles was passing in Z1 for 3 rotations? Which 3 rotations were they? Post about volley, Volley guy. (Speaking of logical fallacies btw, nice appeal to authority. "I know John Cook so I'm special." As others here know, I've got some contacts on the coaching staff too. But I don't need to ask them to teach me about volleyball!) It's not a logical fallacy when the "authority" is her head coach, sees her in the gym, coaches her in every match, things which neither you nor I do. But nice try. Also, goading may work with your 12 year old club kids or half-wit friends--or with YOU--but not here. Haha ok, well give Cook a quick call and ask him why Knuckles passed in Z1 so much. If you need his cell number, DM me and I'll give it to you.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 14, 2020 18:42:22 GMT -5
Technically she had very public back & quad injuries. This is where you are confused, and it's not the first time. I wasn't quizzing you on Lexi Sun per se. I was quizzing you on the weaknesses and fallacies of your argumentation and conclusions. And you came through for me like a champ in that regard. I also wasn't interested in debating your theory because, quite frankly, if I wanted to delve into why Lexi's passing fell off so, I could simply ask John Cook. I have no need for your speculations or theories. I'm 100% absolutely certain he would have a lot more insight than you. And then there's the issue of what you don't know. If you dropped some of your know it all arrogance and defensiveness, you might see the possibility of other explanations without needing to look anywhere else than your own words. It's clear that she has difficulty moving a few steps (slight paraphrase) ... obviously not all issues related to players are known widely or publically, and rightfully so. Regardless of what you perceive your worth here to be on this anonymous site, you're probably not doing yourself any favors. So, wise up buckaroo--or don't, if you're not inclined. Ouch.
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 14, 2020 18:45:15 GMT -5
It's not a logical fallacy when the "authority" is her head coach, sees her in the gym, coaches her in every match, things which neither you nor I do. But nice try. Also, goading may work with your 12 year old club kids or half-wit friends--or with YOU--but not here. Haha ok, well give Cook a quick call and ask him why Knuckles passed in Z1 so much. If you need his cell number, DM me and I'll give it to you. I have it. Now that Fleck isn't coming, I imagine he'll have your calls on divert.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 18:46:26 GMT -5
Haha ok, well give Cook a quick call and ask him why Knuckles passed in Z1 so much. If you need his cell number, DM me and I'll give it to you. I have it. Now that Fleck isn't coming, I imagine he'll have your calls on divert. Jaylen got Kaylei. They'll be fine. You'll still have no idea what you're watching though.
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