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Post by hwy101 on Aug 25, 2004 15:16:45 GMT -5
A few Olympics ago, Janet Evans had to temporarily quit school because she felt she could not train properly because of the NCAA restriction on how many hours she could train while in school.
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Post by USAFAN on Aug 25, 2004 16:34:52 GMT -5
In terms of specialization at an early age, I don't see that as the defining problem of the program. Keba Phipps and Ogonna Nnamani seem to be the exceptions, but on practically every college team and even in the club and high school levels, the outside hitters pass and play all around. I would like to see the US system utilize a quicker offense because even with all the height of the players, they can't put the high balls down as good as the Cubans or Russians can. Also something I noticed was that when the American middles hit in front of the setter they were extremely successful, while when Bown hit slides she made much more errors, I'd like to see more 1's and 31's. And we all saw the benefits of running a quick offense with the Chinese and Brazilian squads. I think that what it came down to was that the American squad didn't have a second complete outside hitter. I'll say it again(even though BarcelonaBob will disagree), they need to find an outside hitter with the physical capability to terminate at this level and the ability to play all around. Kim Willoughby, Kristee Porter, and Kim Glass all passed throughout college and played defense, they also bring a tremendous back row attack that I think the Americans definitely could of utilized because their passing was so horrible. I don't think i saw once when Keba Phipps was back row and setting the pipe would of been the easiest set, she got the ball. Now, BarcelonaBob is going to say that these three outsides are untested or unproven, but he'll be quick to say how good Brittany Hochevar is, when we all know that she is a mediocre setter at this point, and that all three of these hitters are heads and shoulders above Hochevar who IMHO is "untested" as well. Look at the impact that Ogonna Nnamani had on the squad, which proves that needing to be "proven" doesn't really mean anything. Athletes like Marianne Steinbrecher from Brazil and Nancy Carillo de la Paz of Cuba have burst onto the volleyball seen and been extremely successful and their only "experience" came from their junior teams. All the top teams in the world have two great outside hitters. Russia has Chachkova and Gamova, China Wang Lina and Hao Yang, Brazil will Virna Dias and Erika Coimbra. The reality of it is that they need great outside hitters, IMO Logan Tom needs to majorly improve her game because even as good as she is, I don't think she is in the Chachkova, Artamanova, Dias, Ruiz,etc. class of the world's best outside hitters.
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Post by hwy101 on Aug 25, 2004 16:46:06 GMT -5
How about Doug Beal as the US women's coach?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2004 16:46:38 GMT -5
And you need players who WANT to be there.
I liked the potential of Cacciamani, Weaver, Livingston, Porter, Willoughby, etc. etc., but they chose, for various reasons, not to show up.
Talent is fabulous, but it ain't the be all and end all.
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Post by hwy101 on Aug 25, 2004 16:49:00 GMT -5
Exactly, talent can only go so far. You have to commit to train extensively.
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Post by brybry on Aug 25, 2004 17:00:25 GMT -5
In terms of specialization at an early age, I don't see that as the defining problem of the program. Keba Phipps and Ogonna Nnamani seem to be the exceptions, but on practically every college team and even in the club and high school levels, the outside hitters pass and play all around. I would like to see the US system utilize a quicker offense because even with all the height of the players, they can't put the high balls down as good as the Cubans or Russians can. Also something I noticed was that when the American middles hit in front of the setter they were extremely successful, while when Bown hit slides she made much more errors, I'd like to see more 1's and 31's. And we all saw the benefits of running a quick offense with the Chinese and Brazilian squads. I think that what it came down to was that the American squad didn't have a second complete outside hitter. I'll say it again(even though BarcelonaBob will disagree), they need to find an outside hitter with the physical capability to terminate at this level and the ability to play all around. Kim Willoughby, Kristee Porter, and Kim Glass all passed throughout college and played defense, they also bring a tremendous back row attack that I think the Americans definitely could of utilized because their passing was so horrible. I don't think i saw once when Keba Phipps was back row and setting the pipe would of been the easiest set, she got the ball. Now, BarcelonaBob is going to say that these three outsides are untested or unproven, but he'll be quick to say how good Brittany Hochevar is, when we all know that she is a mediocre setter at this point, and that all three of these hitters are heads and shoulders above Hochevar who IMHO is "untested" as well. Look at the impact that Ogonna Nnamani had on the squad, which proves that needing to be "proven" doesn't really mean anything. Athletes like Marianne Steinbrecher from Brazil and Nancy Carillo de la Paz of Cuba have burst onto the volleyball seen and been extremely successful and their only "experience" came from their junior teams. All the top teams in the world have two great outside hitters. Russia has Chachkova and Gamova, China Wang Lina and Hao Yang, Brazil will Virna Dias and Erika Coimbra. The reality of it is that they need great outside hitters, IMO Logan Tom needs to majorly improve her game because even as good as she is, I don't think she is in the Chachkova, Artamanova, Dias, Ruiz,etc. class of the world's best outside hitters. Team USA could really use a Willoughby. Someone who can terminate and still play all the way around. However, I don't think that Porter and Glass are better options that Nnamani at this point. Their passing is not so hot at points. They would get eaten alive in the international level. Also, we often saw them hitting close to .200 (even lower for Glass). It doesn't get any easier when you move up to play the likes of China, Cuba or Brazil. I like Nnamani in there because she's a worldclass attacker. In college, she would often hit over .400 against the top teams and when it matters most. But yes, her passing and defense is horrid. I think Nnamani obviously has a place w/ the team for the next Olympics, but can she co-exist w/ someone like Haneef (a strong attacker but poor ballhandler/defender)? To accomadate someone like Nnamani, I think you have to add a MB that can play all the way around or an OPP that has great ballhandling skills. Maybe Larson and Barboza will be training for the next Olympics. I hope they start soon. |
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Post by PukaPants on Aug 25, 2004 17:15:24 GMT -5
Of course y'all are assuming that Ogonna will never learn to pass or play defense....I beg to differ.
She's still wet behind the ears.....her hitting is great, but someone, maybe Toshi, needs to unlock the rest of her skills...it's all there.
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Post by beachman on Aug 25, 2004 17:30:11 GMT -5
Here are some of my thoughts on the entire mess: Logan Tom, who was the object of an interesting article in today's L.A. Times is far too petulant and has an apparent attitude problem! She sucked in the match. Tayyiba is still a huge part of the future of this program. Not sure about Ogonna, as she still needs to learn a whole lot more about the game....overall game is still not that great. .....Ah Mow will probably retire and Lindsey Berg, who is far too heavy and looks anything but a world class athlete, is NOT the future of this country's setting for this program......Tara is done, and so is Danielle.....Metcalf probably has a future on this team.....we need to find a setter(oops we got one here in Brittany Hochevar and another MB in Elisha Thomas as Bown was anything but impressive in these Olympics.....what middle attack????I am sick and tired of Logan Tom and I just chuckle at the moron who suggested that she move to the beach and take on Misty and Keri,,,,,,,,,NOW THAT IS A REAL HOOT!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2004 18:22:03 GMT -5
Berg beat out Hochevar. Deal with it.
Oh. And of course looking like an athlete is better than actually being one.
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Aug 25, 2004 18:34:06 GMT -5
In terms of specialization at an early age, I don't see that as the defining problem of the program. Keba Phipps and Ogonna Nnamani seem to be the exceptions, but on practically every college team and even in the club and high school levels, the outside hitters pass and play all around. I would like to see the US system utilize a quicker offense because even with all the height of the players, they can't put the high balls down as good as the Cubans or Russians can. Also something I noticed was that when the American middles hit in front of the setter they were extremely successful, while when Bown hit slides she made much more errors, I'd like to see more 1's and 31's. And we all saw the benefits of running a quick offense with the Chinese and Brazilian squads. I think that what it came down to was that the American squad didn't have a second complete outside hitter. I'll say it again(even though BarcelonaBob will disagree), they need to find an outside hitter with the physical capability to terminate at this level and the ability to play all around. Kim Willoughby, Kristee Porter, and Kim Glass all passed throughout college and played defense, they also bring a tremendous back row attack that I think the Americans definitely could of utilized because their passing was so horrible. I don't think i saw once when Keba Phipps was back row and setting the pipe would of been the easiest set, she got the ball. Now, BarcelonaBob is going to say that these three outsides are untested or unproven, but he'll be quick to say how good Brittany Hochevar is, when we all know that she is a mediocre setter at this point, and that all three of these hitters are heads and shoulders above Hochevar who IMHO is "untested" as well. Look at the impact that Ogonna Nnamani had on the squad, which proves that needing to be "proven" doesn't really mean anything. Athletes like Marianne Steinbrecher from Brazil and Nancy Carillo de la Paz of Cuba have burst onto the volleyball seen and been extremely successful and their only "experience" came from their junior teams. All the top teams in the world have two great outside hitters. Russia has Chachkova and Gamova, China Wang Lina and Hao Yang, Brazil will Virna Dias and Erika Coimbra. The reality of it is that they need great outside hitters, IMO Logan Tom needs to majorly improve her game because even as good as she is, I don't think she is in the Chachkova, Artamanova, Dias, Ruiz,etc. class of the world's best outside hitters. Some points - Specialization vs. Generalization - a kid in the US that comes through the JO/College/National Team pipeline may be a OH that plays all the way around, but that kid only played that position. Generalization means they did everything - played all positions, hit and blocked from every position and every possible set (and even tried setter), and passed played defense from all 3 backcourt positions. Watch any club program - an OH hits left, blocks left, and plays middle back and hits pipes in transition. MB hits first tempo, blocks middle, and subs out in the backrow for the libero. OPP hits right (except in R1), blocks right, and plays right back on defense and hits D. Cookie cutter specialization all the way. -Hochevar's future with the National Team (if she decides to stay) is at setter. She was not as talented an OH as Phipps/Tom/Nnamani, but better than Cross-Battle. -Junior teams in Brazil and other countries are vastly different than Junior teams here. JO clubs in the US train and play with peers. Junior clubs in Brazil often train alongside older peers and see volleyball at a higher level, which aids in their development. -US players in general have better physical talent than alot of other country's talent pools. But what is lacking is "refined skill". An example is hitting. US players and touch higher and hit harder than alot of their international contemporaries, but they suck at working their way around 2 or 3 person blocks because nothing in the development track of the US training system teaches them how to get the ball past the block in these situations. We teach how to hit the ball, but we don't do enough to show young players how to hit the ball in realistic situations and how to develop strategies in those situations. What good is doing 15-minutes a practice in hitting lines when they are hitting perfect sets lobbed up there by the coach on an open net? Anybody can pound it straight down in those situations. We need to teach our hitters how to hit sharper angle, crisper line, slime shots, trouble shots, how to exploit seams in the block, and how to hit high hands. Nobody on either the USA Men or Women's squads has shown any ability to consistently hit high-hands. Another example of refined skill is free ball passing, both the USA Women and USA Men are atrocious free ball passers. |
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Post by roofed! on Aug 25, 2004 18:42:14 GMT -5
While watching the match last night, I heard that Mari has just came up from the junior ranks. Has she turned pro yet? She could be a good candidate for Mick to bring over to USC, since after all there are 2 scholies left for 05!  |
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Post by brybry on Aug 25, 2004 20:01:08 GMT -5
While watching the match last night, I heard that Mari has just came up from the junior ranks. Has she turned pro yet? She could be a good candidate for Mick to bring over to USC, since after all there are 2 scholies left for 05! US colleges never get top international juniors from power house nations. They can get a Pavan or a Candelas, but I doubt they'll get someone great from Cuba, Brazil, Russia or China. |
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Aug 25, 2004 20:04:22 GMT -5
US colleges never get top international juniors from power house nations. They can get a Pavan or a Candelas, but I doubt they'll get someone great from Cuba, Brazil, Russia or China. Surprising how many good Chinese vball players end up at DII, DIII, and NAIA schools due to the relaxed eligibility criteria compared to DI. There as a DII program a few years back that had 3-4 top Chinese athletes (former National Team members) who were in their mid-20's. That would have been one hell of a matchup between that school and the DI champion that year. My money would have been on the DII program. Wish I could remember the name of the school, though. |
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Post by vbweit on Aug 25, 2004 20:59:05 GMT -5
I feel that too much emphasis is put on the spectacular side of volleyball, players that can hit the ball hard and/or jump extremely well are hyped to death. It is similar to basketball, where everyone gets so exicted about players that dunk, but give me a good jump shooter any day (just ask the US Mens Olympic team). No one makes a big deal about the player who can pass nails. That's really too bad, since offense begins with the pass. My daughter is a 6'3" middle, and she dedicated her senior year, both high school and club, to be the best passer on her team. The satisfaction that she enjoyed when her coach paid her that compliment was as good if not better than any kill or block she had that year. Fundamentals are so important, and players need to embrace that in order to have consistent results for their team.
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gtdon
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Post by gtdon on Aug 25, 2004 21:16:55 GMT -5
Ogonna has been trained by USA Volleyball since she was 15. If she cannot pass and defend by now, I am not sure she will ever become a all-round player. She can definitely hit the cra-- out of the ball.
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