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Post by IdahoBoy on Aug 25, 2004 21:21:42 GMT -5
Ogonna has been trained by USA Volleyball since she was 15. If she cannot pass and defend by now, I am not sure she will ever become a all-round player. She can definitely hit the cra-- out of the ball. I wouldn't say she can't pass and defend... she has been improving at a very steady clip since I've watched her compete. |
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Post by brybry on Aug 25, 2004 21:43:54 GMT -5
I wouldn't say she can't pass and defend... she has been improving at a very steady clip since I've watched her compete. I dunno. Call me a skeptic, but I'd have to agree. If she can't pass the ball at this point, she'll never get to where she needs to serve receive internationally. However, I'm more concerned w/ if she can improve her defense so to not be a liability. Let the other players pass the ball. |
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Post by vbfan on Aug 25, 2004 21:52:25 GMT -5
How about Doug Beal as the US women's coach? Doug would never coach the women's team. He does not have the desire to deal with women. His motivational style and the style of play he enjoys coaching is better suited for the men's game. I think he is done after this Olympics anyways especially if they do not move the training center back to California. |
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Post by IdahoBoy on Aug 25, 2004 21:54:05 GMT -5
I saw an article wear Tayibba said there was some sort of "female problem" with the team during the Olympics. I don't want to translate it, but it might be the issue. www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/9468946.htmPosted on Sun, Aug. 22, 2004 U.S. keeps its medal hopes alive By MAC ENGEL Fort Worth Star-Telegram ATHENS - Hitter Tayyiba Haneef didn't want to detail the problems the U.S. women's volleyball team were experiencing, only to say, "You know what happens when you have 12 women on the team." Whatever problems the medal-favored U.S. team was going through, for the first time in the Games none were evident on Sunday night. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2004 22:13:04 GMT -5
I don't understand this. Nor do I understand the comments about "not playing as a team." What does that mean? That's one thing about volleyball, you HAVE to play as a team.
I suppose if Tom or Sykora started bumping everything over on one...
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Post by vbfan on Aug 25, 2004 22:20:29 GMT -5
It will be extremely difficult for a pro volleyball league to establish and maintain itself for more than a season or two. NCAA has the potential to be a better developmental vehicle than it currently is. But the restrictions the NCAA governing body puts on all sports, not just volleyball, limits its effectiveness. The concept of student-athlete trumps the impetus to use the NCAA as a developmental platform for these athletes. Limited training time = slower progress. Plus, too much inbreeding since everyone in the NCAA plays cookie-cutter styles. Also, as I said earlier, in any NCAA program the emphasis is on being competitive over player development. I like John Wooden's idea postulated way back that college freshmen NOT be allowed to play varsity for their first year, and form JV squads which play their own schedule (a less intensive one). This @$$%*!* of redshirting a student athlete for an extra year is crap. How many 5th year seniors in NCAA football will finish their degrees before getting drafted by the NFL and signing multi-year/multimillion dollar deals? That's why so many of them, when asked what they will do in retirement, inevitably say "Going back to finish my degree..." If a pro league is started and run the right way it can be successful in the US for many years, but the problem is that with the pro-league that they had in the 80's, the teams were in New York, LA etc... where they have to compete with other pro sports and activities for fans. The USPV was so top heavy in staff, offices etc... that when some funding fell through, the only answer was to cancel the league. The problem now is that both models have failed in the past and no one is going to be willing to put money into something that has a track record of failing unless it is a great business plan. The NCAA is never going to ease the 20 hour per week rule. In fact they are leaning the opposite way trying to cut back opportunities for teams in the Spring (women) Not allowing freshman to play is absurd. Maybe in the old school days of Wooden this seemed plausable but now players get out of high school and want to play and not for a JV team that has no meaning. Many D1 programs have freshman that start for them and make an impact. Allowing tons of foreigners into the NCAA ranks has hurt and will continue to hurt the development of USA Volleyball because coaches are not willing to take someone who is great athlete but not a great player before they could take a good foreigner that can help them right away. The NCAA is not a feeder system for the national team. Some of the above countries (China, Cuba, Russia) have a completely different style of developing players where players are identified as volleyball players when they are young and that is all they are allowed to do. In the US we allow our kids in H.S. to play multiple sports so they are playing less volleyball. Even the kids that are playing club are not getting trained the same way. I'm sure in China and Cuba that when you are young, you are taught to pass, hit and set like the national team is teaching. USA Volleyball has tried to do this with the CAP program and coaching clinics but coaches are successful doing things different ways but then when they get to the national team sometimes they have to learn things all over again. |
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Post by beachman on Aug 25, 2004 22:54:03 GMT -5
I saw an article wear Tayibba said there was some sort of "female problem" with the team during the Olympics. I don't want to translate it, but it might be the issue. www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/9468946.htmPosted on Sun, Aug. 22, 2004 U.S. keeps its medal hopes alive By MAC ENGEL Fort Worth Star-Telegram ATHENS - Hitter Tayyiba Haneef didn't want to detail the problems the U.S. women's volleyball team were experiencing, only to say, "You know what happens when you have 12 women on the team." Whatever problems the medal-favored U.S. team was going through, for the first time in the Games none were evident on Sunday night. The article that I read attributed that quote to Keba Phipps, another one who is on her way out....hopefully along with Logan Tom, who must have done something to really piss off Toshi since he took her out of the match(she wasn't playing that well anyway! |
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Post by Nutter on Aug 25, 2004 22:57:53 GMT -5
I saw an article wear Tayibba said there was some sort of "female problem" with the team during the Olympics. I don't want to translate it, but it might be the issue. www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/9468946.htmPosted on Sun, Aug. 22, 2004 U.S. keeps its medal hopes alive By MAC ENGEL Fort Worth Star-Telegram ATHENS - Hitter Tayyiba Haneef didn't want to detail the problems the U.S. women's volleyball team were experiencing, only to say, "You know what happens when you have 12 women on the team." Whatever problems the medal-favored U.S. team was going through, for the first time in the Games none were evident on Sunday night. , where are you? Care to comment on this? |
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Post by MarsH on Aug 25, 2004 23:14:37 GMT -5
I think it goes deeper than game plan, coaching staa or playing philosophy. I'd say put the blame on the system. USA has been producing a lot of one dimensional players at the elite level in the recent years and very few who are well rounded. There are a lot of OHs out there who can hit from LS but not from RS or BR or Opps who can hit RS/BR but not LS. Hitters who can hit the he** out of the ball but can't receive or play defense worth anything. Same thing goes true for other positions as well. Likes of Tom, Grun (Ger), Shashkova and Artamonova (RUS), Piccinini (ITA) are the kind of players who will get a team somewhere in the long run. (More examples can be given here....) IMO, Team USA needs more players with multiple skills coming thru the ranks in order to be successful in the future. come to think of it, very few well-rounded players have gone through the US program. from those who have made an impression on USA volleyball, i can only think of Liley and Weishoff from years past. and from the younger players, Walsh (but she's moved to the beach now) and Tom. feel free to add to or remove from this list as you'd like. what did their college teams, USA volleyball or these players do differently? i agree with the assessment of Hochevar. while she's one of the few players who can do multiple things on the court, she didn't make the team because except for her serve, the rest of her game isn't at all-star level. YET. so what you do is build on from there. you have an athletic player who has potential of making the 2008 team. i've been hearing that she might switch to the beach. while she may find success there (i believe she has the game for it), it would be a shame for the indoor program to (again) lose one of the few all around talents training at CS. The fact that Nnmani played so much for a struggling Tom exposes this argument as total BS. As the L1 and a primary passer, I'm sure the "set" gameplan was for Tom to play every point of every game of every match. When she struggled and was replaced by Nnamani, it just highlighted how much Metcalf got screwed in terms of playing time throughout these Olympics! i don't see it that way. the fact that Nnamani came in for Tom doesn't refute SonofBarcelonaBob's belief that USA wanted to stick to the gameplan. the injury to Tom was an unforeseen event. not totally inconceivable, but still unexpected. tom plays virtually every point of every match. i'm guessing this does not take into consideration a player getting injured. it was obvious that she was struggling. i've been watching USA's matches for the past 3 years and i've never seen Tom stay on the bench so much, unless she wasn't needed or she was less than 100% healthy. i have to believe that the plan was to stick with 'lineup zero' as much as possible, with Phipps, Tom, Scott, Bown, Haneef and Ahmow-Santos as starters and Sykora as libero. and then the double-sub for Metcalf and Berg. |
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Post by MarsH on Aug 25, 2004 23:27:18 GMT -5
Here are some of my thoughts on the entire mess: Logan Tom, who was the object of an interesting article in today's L.A. Times is far too petulant and has an apparent attitude problem! She sucked in the match. Tayyiba is still a huge part of the future of this program. Not sure about Ogonna, as she still needs to learn a whole lot more about the game....overall game is still not that great. .....Ah Mow will probably retire and Lindsey Berg, who is far too heavy and looks anything but a world class athlete, is NOT the future of this country's setting for this program......Tara is done, and so is Danielle.....Metcalf probably has a future on this team.....we need to find a setter(oops we got one here in Brittany Hochevar and another MB in Elisha Thomas as Bown was anything but impressive in these Olympics.....what middle attack????I am sick and tired of Logan Tom and I just chuckle at the moron who suggested that she move to the beach and take on Misty and Keri,,,,,,,,,NOW THAT IS A REAL HOOT! The article that I read attributed that quote to Keba Phipps, another one who is on her way out....hopefully along with Logan Tom, who must have done something to really piss off Toshi since he took her out of the match(she wasn't playing that well anyway! wow, you are one bitter dude. |
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Post by maka_ala on Aug 25, 2004 23:28:03 GMT -5
i knew before usa went to Athens that they weren't going anywhere cuz of all their dramas unless for some miraculous way pull together as a team early on in the tourney.
you're only as good as your weakest link.
SBB i couldn't agree with you more about what usavb needs.
i've known toshi now for 8 years and think the world of him as a coach.
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Aug 25, 2004 23:46:54 GMT -5
One thing I've learned about women's volleyball teams is that there is ALWAYS drama. At every level. Smart coaches ignore it and let the team work it out.
USA Women had drama at these games? OMG! Stop everything!
You know what, it ain't a big deal. Anyone who has coached a women's team (male or female coach) knows its akin to herding cats. Two women can be bitter enemies one day, and the all of a sudden show up the very next day for practice all smiles as they had just gone out and got a pedicure together. Sheesh.
At the end of that semifinal against Brazil, I saw none of that supposed drama. What I saw was two great teams going at it, and the USA Women unified and playing their best volleyball of the tournament.
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Post by maka_ala on Aug 26, 2004 0:00:16 GMT -5
you're right there's drama in almost any team sport or organization. but when it affects your game in the olympics it's a problem. that's what i mean by that
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Post by maka_ala on Aug 26, 2004 0:09:35 GMT -5
SBB im pretty sure from reading your posts that you know a good number of these athletes. ask any of them why they struggle so much trying executing their game plans and i guarantee you that will be their answer . just not playing together. usawvb has enough talent to beat all their opponents at any given time and then some but they lack fire as a team. if it looks like crap, smells like crap im sorry it is crap. i saw plenty of it during their athen matches except against cuba and brazil
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Post by beachman on Aug 26, 2004 0:16:56 GMT -5
It's a failure of our system.....USA Volleyball is a frickin mess, with a bunch of dip %*$#s who don't know the first thing about how to put together a quality program....just wait and see what they do with Toshi, and watch who replaces him(yes I think that he is gone). Our players have to leave for a huge part of the year to make a living and then they try to come back, straggler after straggler, and try to for a cohesive unit and compete with other teams who subsidize their players to a much greater degree than we do.....plus our players have to stay at the OTC in Colorado Springs, a place that most of them really don't like or enjoy living at......all in all a formula for disaster......I just hope that LT moves on and takes her "tude" with her!
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