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Post by swim4life107 on Apr 24, 2016 1:00:01 GMT -5
April/Kerri have played well since the elimination rounds. I'm so not use to people serving Kerri. You can tell she's not quite use to carrying the offensive load of the team. Not sure I would want to serve April though. She's the best player in the world.
Does anyone know if Olympic Seedings are determined by June 13th as well? I know qualification is. I just figured with there being a few events after qualification ends they would have a chance to improve their ranking. Hoping Kerri/April can at least get up to #3 so they can avoid the evil one until the Final.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 24, 2016 1:36:56 GMT -5
April/Kerri have played well since the elimination rounds. I'm so not use to people serving Kerri. You can tell she's not quite use to carrying the offensive load of the team. Not sure I would want to serve April though. She's the best player in the world. Does anyone know if Olympic Seedings are determined by June 13th as well? I know qualification is. I just figured with there being a few events after qualification ends they would have a chance to improve their ranking. Hoping Kerri/April can at least get up to #3 so they can avoid the evil one until the Final. I was thinking the same thing. Kerri is definitely still working her way back, but her offense looked better in the semi than it has previously. She is hitting more, although she does look to be holding back a little. It seems like her block timing isnt 100% there yet either. Even so, that team is getting harder and harder to beat. It must be really hard for teams mentally knowing their best chance to win is to serve Kerri Walsh all day. Thats a low percentage bet for anyone
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Post by guest2 on Apr 24, 2016 6:14:45 GMT -5
Nice easy win for April/Kerri.
On the men's side its not as bad, although still irritating, but on the women's side not having the Brazilians can make for a dull event. No fault of theirs but hard to prove much in an event where the third seed is Lauren and Brooke
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Post by wang pu on Apr 24, 2016 12:06:09 GMT -5
Nice easy win for April/Kerri. On the men's side its not as bad, although still irritating, but on the women's side not having the Brazilians can make for a dull event. No fault of theirs but hard to prove much in an event where the third seed is Lauren and Brooke I'm curious how Kerri/April would do against the Brazilians.
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Post by swim4life107 on Apr 24, 2016 15:08:04 GMT -5
Kerri and April are improving at a rapid fire pace. I don't think teams will target Kerri much longer. She was siding out so efficiently in the final. They rarely read her side-out, and when they did, they usually were beaten for pace and couldn't control the ball.
As for Brazil, I think the Americans will handle them at some point. They should have taken the first set against them in Viktoria and they were pretty crap during the Brazil trip compared to the level they ended up at in China. In Long Beach, they played against a one handed Kerri and still kept the scoreline respectable.
I really do think Kerri/April will be the clear #1 team by Rio, even if the rankings never show it. There's a reason Larissa only has 1 World Championship and 1 Bronze Olympic Medal. She has no composure on the big stages.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 25, 2016 5:59:08 GMT -5
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wlwii
Sophomore
Posts: 118
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Post by wlwii on Apr 25, 2016 7:22:09 GMT -5
With payout difference, Olympic qualifying , and a very limited # of events, my guess it's not fear but a prudent business plan to avoid (financial) suicide.
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Post by camkerr on Apr 25, 2016 8:32:05 GMT -5
I agree with wlwii, though I wouldn't call it "financial suicide" (the CBV pays for their expenses). It's about money & travel and not about scheduling opposite FIVB stops. Look at Fuzhou's attendance from last year, none of the top Brazil teams attended that tourney. Last week, was the final stop of their domestic tour in Fortaleza and will be followed by an FIVB event in Fortaleza this week. I'm sure just like the big American teams gets with the AVP, the big names from Brazil probably get a hefty appearance fee just for showing up to Circuito stops. Olympic teams have already been chosen, so points don't matter. The only thing Brazil teams need to decide is: 1) Should I fly overseas to China to play for less money, no appearance fee then have to fly back to Fortaleza right after? or 2)Should I get the appearance fee, play in Circuito finals for a bigger prize pool, and I'm already here for the following week's FIVB? Seems like a no brainer to me.
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wlwii
Sophomore
Posts: 118
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Post by wlwii on Apr 25, 2016 11:10:49 GMT -5
Well said Cam. My comment was AVP centric. Sort of similar to stupidity of NVL/AVP overlaps when both were struggling and the players really needed all the pay days .
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Post by guest2 on Apr 25, 2016 13:20:21 GMT -5
Well said Cam. My comment was AVP centric. Sort of similar to stupidity of NVL/AVP overlaps when both were struggling and the players really needed all the pay days . The AVP cant grow if it wont schedule against the FIVB. Its also not a charity for players, although Donald often seems to be running it as such. In the long run a healthy AVP benefits all the players. At least as regards Opens, AVP prize money is better and so should be able to draw the top Americans when there isnt an immediate need to qualify. Technically prize money is the same but AVP money is better for the US teams because: 1. AVP money is more top heavy - 15 k for first versus 11k 2. The US teams are going to do better. Can you imagine Burik/Marchewska getting 3rd at an Open? Casey/Jake, John/Tri etc. are almost guaranteed at least a 4th, whereas in an Open, there is a good chance they finish much lower.
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Post by camkerr on Apr 26, 2016 14:49:34 GMT -5
The AVP cant grow if it wont schedule against the FIVB. ... In the long run a healthy AVP benefits all the players. I completely agree with those two statements, but I ask this follow up: Can The AVP grow when 8-10 weeks every summer the top 10 USA Teams (5 each gender let's say) aren't there because there is a Major or Grand Slam going on? If you wanna grow the tour, it's really hard to do without your stars. The big ticket names that put seats in stands, and have people tune-in to watch on TV. What Circuito has going for it is that Brazil is in the Southern Hemisphere, it never had to schedule against any FIVB events due to the different seasons. Would it be successful if it also had to compete every week with The World Tour? I don't think so. Circuito has: 1. No scheduling conflicts with FIVB 2. More money from sponsors than The AVP ($16.1M USD from Banco do Brasil alone this year) 3. An audience & culture with more support for volleyball And they still only do 8 stops. AVP has 8 stops this year, does it need to have more to "grow"? Can't these 8 stops just be bigger? There are only so many weekends in the summer, and what happens when USA teams need to be at Grand Slams & Majors? There are 7 Grand Slams or Majors during the North American summer this year. That's 7 weeks where The AVP would potentially miss their top 10 teams if they were to expand to more events. At least as regards Opens, AVP prize money is better and so should be able to draw the top Americans when there isnt an immediate need to qualify. As long as the FIVB holds the keys for Olympic Qualification, there is always an immediate need to qualify. Obviously, year 3 & 4 of a quad, your results play into Qualification directly. In years 1 & 2 you still gotta maintain your points so that you can keep your main draw entry for the Grand Slams and Majors. If you have a bad finish or two, you may have to start playing Opens. With the new FIVB changes to Opens (new as in midway through this quad) we'll see how this plays into years 1 & 2 next season, but I don't see USA teams risking losing entry points to stay home and play in AVPs. Lastly, you get better by playing teams from other countries too. Especially on the World Tour when you start to recognize each teams tendencies, play style, who to serve etc. It makes you a better player but you only get that experience if you play on the World Tour if The AVP is still gonna be limited to Americans only. I think there are ways for The AVP to "grow" without increasing the number of events. I'm curious to see how their AVP next feeder system is gonna work / develop talent & hopefully develop player profiles into their main tour. I'm also curious to see how the AVP sponsored FIVB events will go. I think bringing in foreign teams was a great thing back in the day with the AVP, it gave viewers an "Us vs. Them" side to pick when Brazil would come up and play. Also, as a Canadian, I know of many people who would love to go play on AVPs because we have no tour. What if the AVP had domestic tours in other countries? That's certainly a way to grow. I think there is room for the AVP to "grow" but as long as the FIVB handles points, they are in control.
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Post by haze on Apr 26, 2016 15:45:59 GMT -5
I'm not sure if AVPNext is really going to feed the AVP. Those tournaments are saturated with middle aged peaked out volleyball players who play around their life schedule. The women's tour I believe will flourish in the next few years because of NCAA. For the men there is just nothing like that, and I think after Rio we're really going to start seeing a significant decrease of talent in the USA that will last for a long time. USA seems to be the only country right now who isn't getting better regarding the FIVB tournaments.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 26, 2016 16:11:43 GMT -5
The AVP cant grow if it wont schedule against the FIVB. ... In the long run a healthy AVP benefits all the players. I completely agree with those two statements, but I ask this follow up: Can The AVP grow when 8-10 weeks every summer the top 10 USA Teams (5 each gender let's say) aren't there because there is a Major or Grand Slam going on? Im not sure the top AVP players are really huge draws other than Kerri Walsh, who won't last long anyway. Id be very interested to know how New Orleans did in comparison to previous AVPs. The top US teams, except one, were all missing.If you wanna grow the tour, it's really hard to do without your stars. The big ticket names that put seats in stands, and have people tune-in to watch on TV. What Circuito has going for it is that Brazil is in the Southern Hemisphere, it never had to schedule against any FIVB events due to the different seasons. Would it be successful if it also had to compete every week with The World Tour? I don't think so. Circuito has: 1. No scheduling conflicts with FIVB 2. More money from sponsors than The AVP ($16.1M USD from Banco do Brasil alone this year) 3. An audience & culture with more support for volleyball It also has fewer competitors. Its not facing the NBA, NFL, NHL, etc. Futbol of course, but not too much else on the level of the US pro sportsAnd they still only do 8 stops. AVP has 8 stops this year, does it need to have more to "grow"? Can't these 8 stops just be bigger? There are only so many weekends in the summer, and what happens when USA teams need to be at Grand Slams & Majors? There are 7 Grand Slams or Majors during the North American summer this year. That's 7 weeks where The AVP would potentially miss their top 10 teams if they were to expand to more events. I dont necessarily agree here. The big money FIVBs will draw the top players sure, but maybe schedule against 3-4 of those. That way the tour goes on and can build fans, without losing too much momentum from a two month break. Maybe throw in one mandatory big money tournament. A 25-30K top prize on the AVP would be a reasonable enticement for players to skip a Grand Slam. Maybe not in a prime qualifying year, but at other times. Which is more likely of you are Hyden/Bourne. A 4th at a Grand Slam or winning an AVP? They have one top 4 finish ever on the FIVB Another option would be to get an Open and a Grand Slam in the US as part of the AVP tour - that may not be possible if the AVP counterschedules thoughAt least as regards Opens, AVP prize money is better and so should be able to draw the top Americans when there isnt an immediate need to qualify. As long as the FIVB holds the keys for Olympic Qualification, there is always an immediate need to qualify. Obviously, year 3 & 4 of a quad, your results play into Qualification directly. In years 1 & 2 you still gotta maintain your points so that you can keep your main draw entry for the Grand Slams and Majors. If you have a bad finish or two, you may have to start playing Opens. With the new FIVB changes to Opens (new as in midway through this quad) we'll see how this plays into years 1 & 2 next season, but I don't see USA teams risking losing entry points to stay home and play in AVPs. Lastly, you get better by playing teams from other countries too. Especially on the World Tour when you start to recognize each teams tendencies, play style, who to serve etc. It makes you a better player but you only get that experience if you play on the World Tour if The AVP is still gonna be limited to Americans only. very trueI think there are ways for The AVP to "grow" without increasing the number of events. I'm curious to see how their AVP next feeder system is gonna work / develop talent & hopefully develop player profiles into their main tour. I'm also curious to see how the AVP sponsored FIVB events will go. I think bringing in foreign teams was a great thing back in the day with the AVP, it gave viewers an "Us vs. Them" side to pick when Brazil would come up and play. Also, as a Canadian, I know of many people who would love to go play on AVPs because we have no tour. What if the AVP had domestic tours in other countries? That's certainly a way to grow. I think there is room for the AVP to "grow" but as long as the FIVB handles points, they are in control. You make some excellent points, but I think there are ways around most of them. I dont think the AVP can succeed with 8 events a year, because unlike Brazil the AVP needs to make new fans. You cant whet someone's appetite and then ask them to wait six weeks to get another taste
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wlwii
Sophomore
Posts: 118
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Post by wlwii on Apr 26, 2016 16:42:06 GMT -5
Nice thorough summation Cam. It appears guest 2 thinks 20 events, only half of which would contain "name" content, would save the AVP. I'll bet the New Orleans promoter would disagree . My guess is no names hurt NOLA bottom line. Promoters/ sponsors need some names. Misty was a great help this year I'm sure. Show up money or family? An über sponsor will fix everything and fans and more events will follow. Hell any major sport superstar could easily be that major sponsor/savior as a vanity project. Lebron you out there? :-) The AVP's approach is fiscally responsible albeit slow. I feel for the up and coming players with 16 team draws and weak payouts for lower finishes. Makes it real tempting to use your degree(s) to get a job, and relegate beach ball to hobby status.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 26, 2016 20:15:54 GMT -5
Nice thorough summation Cam. It appears guest 2 thinks 20 events, only half of which would contain "name" content, would save the AVP. I'll bet the New Orleans promoter would disagree . My guess is no names hurt NOLA bottom line. Promoters/ sponsors need some names. Misty was a great help this year I'm sure. Show up money or family? An über sponsor will fix everything and fans and more events will follow. Hell any major sport superstar could easily be that major sponsor/savior as a vanity project. Lebron you out there? :-) The AVP's approach is fiscally responsible albeit slow. I feel for the up and coming players with 16 team draws and weak payouts for lower finishes. Makes it real tempting to use your degree(s) to get a job, and relegate beach ball to hobby status. I think it is unfair to judge NOLA, with the absolute terrible weather.
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