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Post by 23flavors on Aug 17, 2016 20:30:09 GMT -5
Adrian isn't allowed in the states because of his visa... Which is ironic since I think he has a Florida drivers license
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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 18, 2016 0:35:15 GMT -5
Not gonna happen with so much $$$ indoors, but anyone else think Robinson/Hill would be a monster beach team?
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Post by downtheline on Aug 18, 2016 0:49:15 GMT -5
I always thought Alix K would be a move to the beach, but still too much $$ to play hard court .
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Post by socalplayer on Aug 18, 2016 1:52:48 GMT -5
Micha Hancock/Carly Wopat would be a fun team to watch
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Post by guest2 on Aug 18, 2016 4:54:17 GMT -5
Not gonna happen with so much $$$ indoors, but anyone else think Robinson/Hill would be a monster beach team? There was always more money indoors, but now there is so little on the beach and the players dont grow up with as much passion for it. You look at the great players of years past and they were also top indoor college stars (Karch, Sinjin, Luyties, AJ, many others that came later also like Lambert or Roumain). Now take a look at the current top guys Who among them was the college player that those guys were? Hyden was very good but who else? Other than Taylor Crabb, who among the current crop can lay claim to having been a top 10 college player? I dont follow the college game much so maybe I just dont know how good Theo or Tri or someone was, but overall it seems like the beach isnt getting anyone |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 18, 2016 7:52:33 GMT -5
Not gonna happen with so much $$$ indoors, but anyone else think Robinson/Hill would be a monster beach team? There was always more money indoors, but now there is so little on the beach and the players dont grow up with as much passion for it. You look at the great players of years past and they were also top indoor college stars (Karch, Sinjin, Luyties, AJ, many others that came later also like Lambert or Roumain). Now take a look at the current top guys Who among them was the college player that those guys were? Hyden was very good but who else? Other than Taylor Crabb, who among the current crop can lay claim to having been a top 10 college player? I dont follow the college game much so maybe I just dont know how good Theo or Tri or someone was, but overall it seems like the beach isnt getting anyone Kind of going opposite of the Int'l teams, were Beach is stealing indoor players younger. Theo had a legit stint with the National team, but you are dead on. I really thought Tony Ciarelli was going to put some serious time on the beach |
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Post by downtheline on Aug 18, 2016 9:29:27 GMT -5
Tony C. Is selling software just like Hughes is, not a bad gig to be making 6 figures right out of college. I saw him a few months ago and he said he is done and moving on with life. Bummer because he is solid beach player.
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Post by crawdaddy on Aug 18, 2016 14:10:30 GMT -5
Not gonna happen with so much $$$ indoors, but anyone else think Robinson/Hill would be a monster beach team? There was always more money indoors, but now there is so little on the beach and the players dont grow up with as much passion for it. You look at the great players of years past and they were also top indoor college stars (Karch, Sinjin, Luyties, AJ, many others that came later also like Lambert or Roumain). Now take a look at the current top guys Who among them was the college player that those guys were? Hyden was very good but who else? Other than Taylor Crabb, who among the current crop can lay claim to having been a top 10 college player? I dont follow the college game much so maybe I just dont know how good Theo or Tri or someone was, but overall it seems like the beach isnt getting anyone One of the differences between that earlier era and now is back in the olden days, those guys grew up playing as much beach as they did indoor, so the transition to beach once they were done indoors was relatively easy. Growing up, Karch spent more time at East Beach than inside a gym. There wasn't 7 months of club, high performance, brutal off-season college schedules etc. Today, indoor players are in the gym 11 months out of the year - they just don't have time to play that much beach. So making the transition is tough. On the women's side, you're already seeing girls blow off indoor volleyball altogether to focus on beach because of scholarships - so that will make a huge difference for them. Not sure how this plays out for the men though, unless USAV can step in early and identify real talent and find a way to make the game financially viable. An interesting example (and maybe one for the US to emulate) is Sarah Pavan. Not sure what the Canadian Federation did for her, but she was certainly a world class indoor player who passed on $$ to play beach. She pretty much sucked for a while until she learned the game and is now a world class beach player. I'd be curious what the Canadian Federation's role was financially in that transition. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 18, 2016 14:59:50 GMT -5
There was always more money indoors, but now there is so little on the beach and the players dont grow up with as much passion for it. You look at the great players of years past and they were also top indoor college stars (Karch, Sinjin, Luyties, AJ, many others that came later also like Lambert or Roumain). Now take a look at the current top guys Who among them was the college player that those guys were? Hyden was very good but who else? Other than Taylor Crabb, who among the current crop can lay claim to having been a top 10 college player? I dont follow the college game much so maybe I just dont know how good Theo or Tri or someone was, but overall it seems like the beach isnt getting anyone One of the differences between that earlier era and now is back in the olden days, those guys grew up playing as much beach as they did indoor, so the transition to beach once they were done indoors was relatively easy. Growing up, Karch spent more time at East Beach than inside a gym. There wasn't 7 months of club, high performance, brutal off-season college schedules etc. Today, indoor players are in the gym 11 months out of the year - they just don't have time to play that much beach. So making the transition is tough. On the women's side, you're already seeing girls blow off indoor volleyball altogether to focus on beach because of scholarships - so that will make a huge difference for them. Not sure how this plays out for the men though, unless USAV can step in early and identify real talent and find a way to make the game financially viable. An interesting example (and maybe one for the US to emulate) is Sarah Pavan. Not sure what the Canadian Federation did for her, but she was certainly a world class indoor player who passed on $$ to play beach. She pretty much sucked for a while until she learned the game and is now a world class beach player. I'd be curious what the Canadian Federation's role was financially in that transition. My shot in the dark guess was that Pavan's choice had 100% to do with the opportunity to play in the Olympics. Not sure if she still is, but for at least 2 years she played indoor in the off-season for the $$$ |
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Post by haze on Aug 18, 2016 16:46:54 GMT -5
Pavan didn't see an opportunity to play in the Olympics via indoor. I think she went through 1 (maybe 2) cycles of trying to qualify with indoor team and didn't think it was going to happen and moved to Beach.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 18, 2016 18:08:29 GMT -5
There was always more money indoors, but now there is so little on the beach and the players dont grow up with as much passion for it. You look at the great players of years past and they were also top indoor college stars (Karch, Sinjin, Luyties, AJ, many others that came later also like Lambert or Roumain). Now take a look at the current top guys Who among them was the college player that those guys were? Hyden was very good but who else? Other than Taylor Crabb, who among the current crop can lay claim to having been a top 10 college player? I dont follow the college game much so maybe I just dont know how good Theo or Tri or someone was, but overall it seems like the beach isnt getting anyone One of the differences between that earlier era and now is back in the olden days, those guys grew up playing as much beach as they did indoor, so the transition to beach once they were done indoors was relatively easy. Growing up, Karch spent more time at East Beach than inside a gym. There wasn't 7 months of club, high performance, brutal off-season college schedules etc. Today, indoor players are in the gym 11 months out of the year - they just don't have time to play that much beach. So making the transition is tough. On the women's side, you're already seeing girls blow off indoor volleyball altogether to focus on beach because of scholarships - so that will make a huge difference for them. Not sure how this plays out for the men though, unless USAV can step in early and identify real talent and find a way to make the game financially viable. An interesting example (and maybe one for the US to emulate) is Sarah Pavan. Not sure what the Canadian Federation did for her, but she was certainly a world class indoor player who passed on $$ to play beach. She pretty much sucked for a while until she learned the game and is now a world class beach player. I'd be curious what the Canadian Federation's role was financially in that transition. I agree with what you say regarding them not playing beach the way they used to, but I think its so much easier now for indoor guys to transition due to the rules and short court. I think where it makes the difference is in the love of beach. A lot of guys, Karch included, left money on the table at one time or another to play beach because they loved it. One other thing I wonder about is why parents let their kids play so much indoor. For girls I understand it more because of college scholarships but if i had a teenage boy no way would I let him play that much. Its funny we all think about the danger of concussions etc in kids now because we have seen what it does, but what about the effects of playing high level indoor vollyeball for a long time. How many 50 year old ex players do you know who have artificial joints or cant go for a run without serious pain. Volleyball has to be the sport thats hardest on your legs. Beach is so much easier on the body. |
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Post by Semp12 on Aug 19, 2016 6:58:56 GMT -5
There was always more money indoors, but now there is so little on the beach and the players dont grow up with as much passion for it. You look at the great players of years past and they were also top indoor college stars (Karch, Sinjin, Luyties, AJ, many others that came later also like Lambert or Roumain). Now take a look at the current top guys Who among them was the college player that those guys were? Hyden was very good but who else? Other than Taylor Crabb, who among the current crop can lay claim to having been a top 10 college player? I dont follow the college game much so maybe I just dont know how good Theo or Tri or someone was, but overall it seems like the beach isnt getting anyone One of the differences between that earlier era and now is back in the olden days, those guys grew up playing as much beach as they did indoor, so the transition to beach once they were done indoors was relatively easy. Growing up, Karch spent more time at East Beach than inside a gym. There wasn't 7 months of club, high performance, brutal off-season college schedules etc. Today, indoor players are in the gym 11 months out of the year - they just don't have time to play that much beach. So making the transition is tough. On the women's side, you're already seeing girls blow off indoor volleyball altogether to focus on beach because of scholarships - so that will make a huge difference for them. Not sure how this plays out for the men though, unless USAV can step in early and identify real talent and find a way to make the game financially viable. An interesting example (and maybe one for the US to emulate) is Sarah Pavan. Not sure what the Canadian Federation did for her, but she was certainly a world class indoor player who passed on $$ to play beach. She pretty much sucked for a while until she learned the game and is now a world class beach player. I'd be curious what the Canadian Federation's role was financially in that transition. I agree with that as well. There was a libero who made it far, but didn't make their actual age groups HP national travel roster. I said commit to beach in the summer, although undersized the defense and serve receive benefits would be great playing Open level tournaments. One of the D1 assistants, also in our club, said to commit to a 5+ day a week workout program with a ton of lifting and sprinting. The athlete decided to do the workout program. What a missed opportunity in my mind. Besides the 11 month indoor season, we also have more and more top athletes not coming out of California where they don't have beach access. I don't really fault a kid from some other state who doesn't want to go to some crappy park and play a ton of "sand" volleyball, it is just not the same. Finally, the big for-profit clubs can't survive if their kids start playing too much beach. |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 19, 2016 7:37:48 GMT -5
One of the differences between that earlier era and now is back in the olden days, those guys grew up playing as much beach as they did indoor, so the transition to beach once they were done indoors was relatively easy. Growing up, Karch spent more time at East Beach than inside a gym. There wasn't 7 months of club, high performance, brutal off-season college schedules etc. Today, indoor players are in the gym 11 months out of the year - they just don't have time to play that much beach. So making the transition is tough. On the women's side, you're already seeing girls blow off indoor volleyball altogether to focus on beach because of scholarships - so that will make a huge difference for them. Not sure how this plays out for the men though, unless USAV can step in early and identify real talent and find a way to make the game financially viable. An interesting example (and maybe one for the US to emulate) is Sarah Pavan. Not sure what the Canadian Federation did for her, but she was certainly a world class indoor player who passed on $$ to play beach. She pretty much sucked for a while until she learned the game and is now a world class beach player. I'd be curious what the Canadian Federation's role was financially in that transition. I agree with that as well. There was a libero who made it far, but didn't make make their actual age groups HP national travel roster. I said commit to beach in the summer, although undersized the defense and serve receive benefits would be great playing Open level tournaments. One of the D1 assistants, also in our club, said to commit to a 5+ day a week workout program with a ton of lifting and sprinting. The athlete decided to do the workout program. What a missed opportunity in my mind. Besides the 11 month indoor season, we also have more and more top athletes not coming out of California where they don't have beach access. I don't really fault a kid from some other state who doesn't want to go to some crappy park and play a ton of "sand" volleyball, it is just not the same. Finally, the big for-profit clubs can't survive if their kids start playing too much beach. It may not be the "same", but the growth of the Sand game outside of California has been huge. There are tons of places that don't have beaches, that are starting to produce very good beach players. |
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Post by guest2 on Aug 19, 2016 8:49:15 GMT -5
I think the game is moving away from real "beach volleyball" and more towards sand anyway. You dont see nearly as much weather as you used to when most of the events were on real beaches.
I think you are a little wrong about sand not being fun as opposed to beach. For a lot of people as they start playing sand is more fun. At the beach there are a lot of days where the wind is too much or the sand too deep to have much fun. Whereas a good inland sand court is nice and soft and you can fling your body around, but you can still feel like a man when you hit the ball. (Not the case in Seaside Heights New Jersey or Ocean City Maryland or other deep beaches like that)
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Post by crawdaddy on Aug 19, 2016 9:53:47 GMT -5
The question is how does USAV promote the development of elite beach talent? When it comes to supporting full-time professionals it has a choice. The most objective way (which seems to be the current approach) is to provide support based on past performance of the athletes (FIVB ranking, AVP ranking). The problem is you end up spending money on the Kim Dicellos and John Mayers, nice players but who not going to get to that next level. The second approach is to identify talent with big upside and support them financially as they develop (by support, I mean helping them live and train as professionals). Of course, that brings subjectivity into it and you're likely to make some bad investments and be subject to criticism for those choices. But the payoff may be bigger.
The development of the college game will probably eliminate the need for the second approach I described for women - since there will be a big network in place to develop, train, and sort through talent - so the best players (e.g., Claes, Hughes, etc.) will emerge through that system. Different story for the men. As just an example, if USAV felt that Ciarelli (or a similar young player) had the potential to develop into an elite player, even if they haven't yet had good finishes, the question it should asking is how can it support him so playing beach volleyball is more attractive than selling software.
Sorry for the long post.
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