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Post by guest2 on Mar 25, 2017 8:30:48 GMT -5
Guest2: "Other than Claes/Hughes, there are no players currently on tour with the potential to be better than a Kerri diminished by 30%. Maybe the college pipeline kicks in by then, but maybe not." I absolutely love Kerri, and she has been amazingly consistent for so long now. However, to say that there is not a single player on tour with the potential to be better than a Kerri diminished by 30% is just plain silly. Randy with Sinjin - one of the best (if not the very best) ever, and widely acclaimed as the best big setter and blocker of his era. Randy after Sinjin - not even remotely close. Sure he was older, but so was Karch, and he still won a ton after Kent. Todd with Dax - really good, very consistent, and considered a great defender. Todd with Phil - in the discussion for best defender and small sideout guy ever? My point being that to say that no one, given 3 1/2 years of play with the right partner, could even get within 30% of a 42 year old, bad shoulder Kerri is, IMHO, quite a stretch. A couple things here: 1. After Sinjin, Randy was the third best player on the AVP for a couple years, but injuries and age took their toll. Look at Randy in 1995 and then in 1990. His speed is gone, the hands arent what they were, although still great. Age affects people differently. Thats why I stipulated Kerri diminished by 30% as opposed to Kerri at 42. She could fall off by more. Your Todd comparison is a poor one because several things happened that are unlikely to happen again. The new rules for example. Todd also switched sides, got older, and found a massively better partner. That said, Todd was always an excellent athlete in terms of jump etc. and had great skills. The no. 1 thing separating Kerri from all non-April/Hughes players right now is she is a much better athlete and more skilled. |
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Post by guest2 on Mar 25, 2017 9:01:28 GMT -5
Guest2: "Other than Claes/Hughes, there are no players currently on tour with the potential to be better than a Kerri diminished by 30%. Maybe the college pipeline kicks in by then, but maybe not." I absolutely love Kerri, and she has been amazingly consistent for so long now. However, to say that there is not a single player on tour with the potential to be better than a Kerri diminished by 30% is just plain silly. So name someone. Have you seen how weak the tour was the last few years? Of blockers in last years top 30: (not counting Claes) Only two players have not definitively shown they are too old to improve that much/not good or too physically limited. Larsen and Emily Day. Can you honestly say either has that kind of potential? |
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Post by volleyballjim on Mar 25, 2017 15:26:40 GMT -5
One LAST (Yeah, right) thought on Kerri and her "bronze). Why is there so little talk of her getting 3 gold medals on the left side and 1 bronze on the right? And the go-to error is passing, where side preference has its #1 exposure?
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Post by beavis on Mar 26, 2017 6:07:04 GMT -5
C'mon Guest2 - you honestly don't think Kerri got that much better alone, do you? Sinjin played a huge part in who Randy became, and the exact same thing with Phil and Todd, and Misty and Kerri. You can't seriously think that Kerri would have been anywhere nearly as successful if she had not paired up with Misty, do you? To say that there is no one who possibly can get near Kerri with her shoulder and age is, again, just in my humble opinion, plain silly. I've been to around 4-5 AVP/FIVB tourneys in person the last several years, but who you might think is out there right this red hot second makes absolutely no difference. The incredibly talent down in Gulf Shores the past few years leads me to think that yes, there could actually be a few breakout bigs who blossom during the next three years and blow past Kerri. Again, just my opinion, but I just read that Sarah Pavan is coming back to the beach, and if she decides to move to the US and play for us, she will be 34, in her prime, and could be the next Kerri. Or maybe one of the Rolfzen twins heads to the beach full-time - HA!!!
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Post by guest2 on Mar 26, 2017 6:42:59 GMT -5
C'mon Guest2 - you honestly don't think Kerri got that much better alone, do you? Sinjin played a huge part in who Randy became, and the exact same thing with Phil and Todd, and Misty and Kerri. You can't seriously think that Kerri would have been anywhere nearly as successful if she had not paired up with Misty, do you? To say that there is no one who possibly can get near Kerri with her shoulder and age is, again, just in my humble opinion, plain silly. I've been to around 4-5 AVP/FIVB tourneys in person the last several years, but who you might think is out there right this red hot second makes absolutely no difference. The incredibly talent down in Gulf Shores the past few years leads me to think that yes, there could actually be a few breakout bigs who blossom during the next three years and blow past Kerri. Again, just my opinion, but I just read that Sarah Pavan is coming back to the beach, and if she decides to move to the US and play for us, she will be 34, in her prime, and could be the next Kerri. Or maybe one of the Rolfzen twins heads to the beach full-time - HA!!! You are arguing a straw man. Fighting against an argument I didn't make. I didn't say there was no one who could possibly get near Kerri, I said of current US pros there wasn't and I stand by that. Also for women 34 is not athletic prime. (Not for men either) There are a few outliers, but not many. |
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Post by geedawg on Mar 26, 2017 8:12:33 GMT -5
C'mon Guest2 - you honestly don't think Kerri got that much better alone, do you? Sinjin played a huge part in who Randy became, and the exact same thing with Phil and Todd, and Misty and Kerri. You can't seriously think that Kerri would have been anywhere nearly as successful if she had not paired up with Misty, do you? To say that there is no one who possibly can get near Kerri with her shoulder and age is, again, just in my humble opinion, plain silly. I've been to around 4-5 AVP/FIVB tourneys in person the last several years, but who you might think is out there right this red hot second makes absolutely no difference. The incredibly talent down in Gulf Shores the past few years leads me to think that yes, there could actually be a few breakout bigs who blossom during the next three years and blow past Kerri. Again, just my opinion, but I just read that Sarah Pavan is coming back to the beach, and if she decides to move to the US and play for us, she will be 34, in her prime, and could be the next Kerri. Or maybe one of the Rolfzen twins heads to the beach full-time - HA!!! Ummm Sarah Pavan plays for Canada. She's playing with the FIVB rookie of the year from 2014 - Melissa Humana-Paredes - this year. Once a player has played in the Olympics for a country they can't play for another country. |
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Post by Fight On! on Mar 26, 2017 9:28:49 GMT -5
C'mon Guest2 - you honestly don't think Kerri got that much better alone, do you? Sinjin played a huge part in who Randy became, and the exact same thing with Phil and Todd, and Misty and Kerri. You can't seriously think that Kerri would have been anywhere nearly as successful if she had not paired up with Misty, do you? To say that there is no one who possibly can get near Kerri with her shoulder and age is, again, just in my humble opinion, plain silly. I've been to around 4-5 AVP/FIVB tourneys in person the last several years, but who you might think is out there right this red hot second makes absolutely no difference. The incredibly talent down in Gulf Shores the past few years leads me to think that yes, there could actually be a few breakout bigs who blossom during the next three years and blow past Kerri. Again, just my opinion, but I just read that Sarah Pavan is coming back to the beach, and if she decides to move to the US and play for us, she will be 34, in her prime, and could be the next Kerri. Or maybe one of the Rolfzen twins heads to the beach full-time - HA!!! Ummm Sarah Pavan plays for Canada. She's playing with the FIVB rookie of the year from 2014 - Melissa Humana-Paredes - this year. Once a player has played in the Olympics for a country they can't play for another country. In the Olympic Charter, see Part 2 to the bylaws of Rule 41. Your statement about playing for a different country is incorrect. Page 80. stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/olympic_charter_en.pdf |
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Post by geedawg on Mar 26, 2017 19:38:40 GMT -5
Ummm Sarah Pavan plays for Canada. She's playing with the FIVB rookie of the year from 2014 - Melissa Humana-Paredes - this year. Once a player has played in the Olympics for a country they can't play for another country. In the Olympic Charter, see Part 2 to the bylaws of Rule 41. Your statement about playing for a different country is incorrect. Page 80. stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/olympic_charter_en.pdfBylaws state that an athlete that has dual citizenship may play for a different country. Sarah only attended Nebraska Univ. She's 100% Canadian. If she changed her citizenship she would have to wait 3 years to play in international competitions in most cases. So in that scenario she would have to change before the summer. I'm pretty sure under the present administration it would take longer and under the present administration I'm pretty sure she wouldn't want to play for 'murica. Oh Canada! |
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Post by Fight On! on Mar 26, 2017 19:58:55 GMT -5
Bylaws state that an athlete that has dual citizenship may play for a different country. Sarah only attended Nebraska Univ. She's 100% Canadian. If she changed her citizenship she would have to wait 3 years to play in international competitions in most cases. So in that scenario she would have to change before the summer. I'm pretty sure under the present administration it would take longer and under the present administration I'm pretty sure she wouldn't want to play for 'murica. Oh Canada! OK, so we agree. Your initially statement was incorrect. Perfect. |
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Post by geedawg on Mar 26, 2017 22:18:22 GMT -5
Bylaws state that an athlete that has dual citizenship may play for a different country. Sarah only attended Nebraska Univ. She's 100% Canadian. If she changed her citizenship she would have to wait 3 years to play in international competitions in most cases. So in that scenario she would have to change before the summer. I'm pretty sure under the present administration it would take longer and under the present administration I'm pretty sure she wouldn't want to play for 'murica. Oh Canada! OK, so we agree. Your initially statement was incorrect. Perfect. Yes my statement is correct, that Sarah plays for Canada and this season is playing with Melissa Humana-Paredes. As for my neglect about a by-law that has changed recently, mea culpa. As for reality Sarah has expressed pride for playing for Canada and since she, as I stated, doesn't have dual citizenship it's doubtful she would want to, or have the opportunity under the current administration to play for 'murica. Oh Canada! Check out her blog; sarahpavan.com/path-olympics-part1/sarahpavan.com/path-olympics-part2/ |
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Mar 26, 2017 22:42:12 GMT -5
C'mon Guest2 - you honestly don't think Kerri got that much better alone, do you? Sinjin played a huge part in who Randy became, and the exact same thing with Phil and Todd, and Misty and Kerri. You can't seriously think that Kerri would have been anywhere nearly as successful if she had not paired up with Misty, do you? To say that there is no one who possibly can get near Kerri with her shoulder and age is, again, just in my humble opinion, plain silly. I've been to around 4-5 AVP/FIVB tourneys in person the last several years, but who you might think is out there right this red hot second makes absolutely no difference. The incredibly talent down in Gulf Shores the past few years leads me to think that yes, there could actually be a few breakout bigs who blossom during the next three years and blow past Kerri. Again, just my opinion, but I just read that Sarah Pavan is coming back to the beach, and if she decides to move to the US and play for us, she will be 34, in her prime, and could be the next Kerri. Or maybe one of the Rolfzen twins heads to the beach full-time - HA!!! While Pavan spends a lot of time in Hermosa Beach as it is, I've never gotten the impression she had any interest in switching sides, as it were. Not seeing it. Also, Pavan just isn't that good, She's about to find what is life is like without an absolute digging machine behind her. Fendrick is better (not to mention Kerri). Kathryn Plummer is 19 and already better than Pavan (Plummer, if she decides to give beach a full time go - which is far from a given - has the raw ability to become the next dominant blocker). Rolfzen's, doubtful it will ever happen. For whatever reason, Nebraska players (outside of Kropp) have been very, very resistant to committing to beach. As for the Olympics discussion, there's a long list of athletes who have competed for different countries, and it goes back decades. |
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Post by guest2 on Mar 27, 2017 11:52:51 GMT -5
C'mon Guest2 - you honestly don't think Kerri got that much better alone, do you? Sinjin played a huge part in who Randy became, and the exact same thing with Phil and Todd, and Misty and Kerri. You can't seriously think that Kerri would have been anywhere nearly as successful if she had not paired up with Misty, do you? To say that there is no one who possibly can get near Kerri with her shoulder and age is, again, just in my humble opinion, plain silly. I've been to around 4-5 AVP/FIVB tourneys in person the last several years, but who you might think is out there right this red hot second makes absolutely no difference. The incredibly talent down in Gulf Shores the past few years leads me to think that yes, there could actually be a few breakout bigs who blossom during the next three years and blow past Kerri. Again, just my opinion, but I just read that Sarah Pavan is coming back to the beach, and if she decides to move to the US and play for us, she will be 34, in her prime, and could be the next Kerri. Or maybe one of the Rolfzen twins heads to the beach full-time - HA!!! While Pavan spends a lot of time in Hermosa Beach as it is, I've never gotten the impression she had any interest in switching sides, as it were. Not seeing it. Also, Pavan just isn't that good, She's about to find what is life is like without an absolute digging machine behind her. Fendrick is better (not to mention Kerri). Kathryn Plummer is 19 and already better than Pavan (Plummer, if she decides to give beach a full time go - which is far from a given - has the raw ability to become the next dominant blocker). Rolfzen's, doubtful it will ever happen. For whatever reason, Nebraska players (outside of Kropp) have been very, very resistant to committing to beach. As for the Olympics discussion, there's a long list of athletes who have competed for different countries, and it goes back decades. I'd love to hear more about why you think Fendi is better than Pavan. To me it seems clear Sarah is a much better hitter/blocker and not much difference in passing, serving, setting etc. Am I wrong about that? Other than Kerri and Kira (who I know you also aren't a big fan of) is there a comparable blocker to Sarah on tour now? |
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Post by volleyballjim on Mar 27, 2017 13:21:08 GMT -5
Agree completely with GLRA on Pavan. Just not a beach player extraordinaire. She's OK, and imposing, she's HUGE, but doesn't have that complete beach sense. Bansley was an unbelievable defender behind her and she moved on...BIG mistake as was shown with Bansley's post-Pavan tourneys . . .
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Post by guest2 on Mar 27, 2017 14:29:39 GMT -5
Agree completely with GLRA on Pavan. Just not a beach player extraordinaire. She's OK, and imposing, she's HUGE, but doesn't have that complete beach sense. Bansley was an unbelievable defender behind her and she moved on...BIG mistake as was shown with Bansley's post-Pavan tourneys . . . As shown by two ninths and a 4-4 overall record? I think you may be inferring too much. Bansley is great on defense but she can't put the ball away. Every time I have seen them play, 70% of the points they give up go: Heather is dug, opponents put the ball away. 20% go: Heather is dug, she digs back, she is dug again, opponents put ball away. Staying together may have been the best option but Pavan has a much brighter future |
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Mar 27, 2017 15:16:24 GMT -5
While Pavan spends a lot of time in Hermosa Beach as it is, I've never gotten the impression she had any interest in switching sides, as it were. Not seeing it. Also, Pavan just isn't that good, She's about to find what is life is like without an absolute digging machine behind her. Fendrick is better (not to mention Kerri). Kathryn Plummer is 19 and already better than Pavan (Plummer, if she decides to give beach a full time go - which is far from a given - has the raw ability to become the next dominant blocker). Rolfzen's, doubtful it will ever happen. For whatever reason, Nebraska players (outside of Kropp) have been very, very resistant to committing to beach. As for the Olympics discussion, there's a long list of athletes who have competed for different countries, and it goes back decades. I'd love to hear more about why you think Fendi is better than Pavan. To me it seems clear Sarah is a much better hitter/blocker and not much difference in passing, serving, setting etc. Am I wrong about that? Other than Kerri and Kira (who I know you also aren't a big fan of) is there a comparable blocker to Sarah on tour now? Oh, I'm on the Walkenhorst bandwagon these days. She's improved immensely. Pavan puts up a huge block (although she can be late with it), but she's slow, doesn't transition well, and gets caught in no-man's land too often. OTOH, Pavan's length allows her to hit angles other players don't. If you had to pick a player based purely on their effectiveness within three feet of the net, Pavan is right up there. But the women's game isn't played that way - you have to constantly pull/pass/transition. Based on those requirements, I'd put (in no particular order) Walsh, Agatha, Talita, Walkenhorst, Fendrick (by a nose, because Lauren is more physical and has better instincts than Pavan), Xue (if healthy), and maybe the very underrated Verge-Depre. Pavan can be a very effective player, but I certainly don't believe she can be the "next Kerri" - which is the main point I was responding to in my prior post. Also, while it's way too small a sample size to base an argument on, it is definitely interesting that the first time Bansley and Pavan squared off against each other, Bansley/Wilkerson (who is an OK player) handled Pavan/Human-Paredes. |
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