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Post by haze on Nov 1, 2017 18:52:43 GMT -5
How important is a blocker in the women's game? I'm not talking special players like Kerri Walsh or Sarah Pavan, I'm talking dominant blocker vs all around player. Fendrick is considered a World Class blocker and we saw how that partnership worked out. The best teams in the World (not including the special players listed above) all have 1 thing in common, and that's a solid blocker (not special) who's an excellent All-Around player who's very good in transition. They all hover around 5'11" to 6'1", have a disciplined solid blocking technique, and excel in pretty much every part of the game. They all win in the transition part of the game as well as the sideout. I would say almost every single one of them looks at blocking like added bonuses. I would even say in general, unlike the men's game, the block isn't an emphasized part of the game. You would think April and Sara could make a good partnership like above, but in the 1 tournament they did play it was pretty ugly so not real sure what's going on. Probably what's happening with April is she either isn't as good as we though, or the US side just does not have any World Class players right now. Claes I think has all around skills, but she is not very good in transition at this point of her career in comparison to other World Class players. Not sure when 6'1 became small on the women's side. I remember when 5'10 Nancy Reno was the best net player in the world by a mile. I think at this point you usually need either an elite blocker or an elite defender to really do well on the world stage. (Multiple wins in a year or this year multiple finals) Of the top teams the last 2-3 years, The Germans have both, the USA (Ross/Walsh) Canada, the Swiss and Larissa Brazil all have/had one. Of those teams only Larissa/Brazil doesn't have an elite blocker and Larissa is a top 2/3 defender in history. Having a Kira/Kerri/Joanna/Sarah isn't necessary to win, but it sure does help and elite blockers are maybe more valuable than elite defenders. I've seen Larissa/Misty/Laura have very limited impact on matches more often than a young Kerri, or Pavan. Lauren is a good blocker but she is low average at just about everything else, including siding out. So I think we're in agreement that April Ross isn't an elite defender in comparison Ludwig and Larissa? 2 years ago I would have said she was better, and last year I would have said she wasn't anywhere close, but she did play basically all of last year with a broken toe. If she is an elite defender, than she should be able to get an average blocker that is really good in transition and the rest of the game. I'd say Summer Ross is the closest thing right now. I would say Claes probably could be, but she is terrible in transition right now and may be a couple years away on improving that. Or, does US have another dominant defender that April can team up with? We would have thought HUghes but that really was ugly. 5'11" - 6'1" is not real big on the tour, but people keep throwing out these tall names like Plummer and Klineman, when they aren't anywhere near ready or proven. Forget height and a dominant block, pick up a great all around player and make it work however, and if that means April blocks than she should do it. I'd like to see Betsi Flint play with someone that she isn't constantly covering for. I don't know if she's World Class but she covers a hell of a lot of sloppy play with Larson and is still one of the US's best defenders.
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Post by johnbar on Nov 1, 2017 22:57:33 GMT -5
Not sure when 6'1 became small on the women's side. I remember when 5'10 Nancy Reno was the best net player in the world by a mile. Ha ha; I always liked Nancy Reno. But the women have gotten taller. Look at the top college teams. (Oh, and BVBInfo lists Nancy as 5'11", not that it changes your point.)
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Post by guest2 on Nov 2, 2017 3:49:52 GMT -5
Is Pavan really a world-class blocker on the beach? She's a terrible blocker indoors. I'm surprised. Outdoors she is the best. You could argue for Kira, Kerri, or Joanna, but its a hard case to make. No one affects hitters like Pavan
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Post by guest2 on Nov 2, 2017 3:55:33 GMT -5
Not sure when 6'1 became small on the women's side. I remember when 5'10 Nancy Reno was the best net player in the world by a mile. I think at this point you usually need either an elite blocker or an elite defender to really do well on the world stage. (Multiple wins in a year or this year multiple finals) Of the top teams the last 2-3 years, The Germans have both, the USA (Ross/Walsh) Canada, the Swiss and Larissa Brazil all have/had one. Of those teams only Larissa/Brazil doesn't have an elite blocker and Larissa is a top 2/3 defender in history. Having a Kira/Kerri/Joanna/Sarah isn't necessary to win, but it sure does help and elite blockers are maybe more valuable than elite defenders. I've seen Larissa/Misty/Laura have very limited impact on matches more often than a young Kerri, or Pavan. Lauren is a good blocker but she is low average at just about everything else, including siding out. So I think we're in agreement that April Ross isn't an elite defender in comparison Ludwig and Larissa? 2 years ago I would have said she was better, and last year I would have said she wasn't anywhere close, but she did play basically all of last year with a broken toe. If she is an elite defender, than she should be able to get an average blocker that is really good in transition and the rest of the game. I'd say Summer Ross is the closest thing right now. I would say Claes probably could be, but she is terrible in transition right now and may be a couple years away on improving that. Or, does US have another dominant defender that April can team up with? We would have thought HUghes but that really was ugly. 5'11" - 6'1" is not real big on the tour, but people keep throwing out these tall names like Plummer and Klineman, when they aren't anywhere near ready or proven. Forget height and a dominant block, pick up a great all around player and make it work however, and if that means April blocks than she should do it. I'd like to see Betsi Flint play with someone that she isn't constantly covering for. I don't know if she's World Class but she covers a hell of a lot of sloppy play with Larson and is still one of the US's best defenders. I don't think April was ever an elite defender. I think she was/is an elite sideout player and server. She had success with Kessey and their incredible teamwork and sideout game took them a long way. In theory at least a similar team to Duda/Agatha. But there isnt another US player like that right now and I think April needs a way to score against teams that can pass her serves. Without Kerri to put pressure on teams blocking, April's defense is a lot weaker I agree April should look at blocking if need be and I also think she needs to be more aggressive in searching out a partner. Figure out who is her best possible partner (its probably Kelly or Sara) then really go after that person. Enough with the slumber party ethos.
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Post by Semp12 on Nov 2, 2017 9:48:04 GMT -5
How important is a blocker in the women's game? I'm not talking special players like Kerri Walsh or Sarah Pavan, I'm talking dominant blocker vs all around player. Fendrick is considered a World Class blocker and we saw how that partnership worked out. The best teams in the World (not including the special players listed above) all have 1 thing in common, and that's a solid blocker (not special) who's an excellent All-Around player who's very good in transition. They all hover around 5'11" to 6'1", have a disciplined solid blocking technique, and excel in pretty much every part of the game. They all win in the transition part of the game as well as the sideout. I would say almost every single one of them looks at blocking like added bonuses. I would even say in general, unlike the men's game, the block isn't an emphasized part of the game. You would think April and Sara could make a good partnership like above, but in the 1 tournament they did play it was pretty ugly so not real sure what's going on. Probably what's happening with April is she either isn't as good as we though, or the US side just does not have any World Class players right now. Claes I think has all around skills, but she is not very good in transition at this point of her career in comparison to other World Class players. True now, but I wonder for how long? One would think with beach a NCAA sport, it is only a matter of time until enough elite athletes (with height) are playing and committing to beach in the US, that the big-time "men's like" blocker will become a must-have.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Nov 2, 2017 10:15:50 GMT -5
So I think we're in agreement that April Ross isn't an elite defender in comparison Ludwig and Larissa? 2 years ago I would have said she was better, and last year I would have said she wasn't anywhere close, but she did play basically all of last year with a broken toe. If she is an elite defender, than she should be able to get an average blocker that is really good in transition and the rest of the game. I'd say Summer Ross is the closest thing right now. I would say Claes probably could be, but she is terrible in transition right now and may be a couple years away on improving that. Or, does US have another dominant defender that April can team up with? We would have thought HUghes but that really was ugly. 5'11" - 6'1" is not real big on the tour, but people keep throwing out these tall names like Plummer and Klineman, when they aren't anywhere near ready or proven. Forget height and a dominant block, pick up a great all around player and make it work however, and if that means April blocks than she should do it. I'd like to see Betsi Flint play with someone that she isn't constantly covering for. I don't know if she's World Class but she covers a hell of a lot of sloppy play with Larson and is still one of the US's best defenders. I don't think April was ever an elite defender. I think she was/is an elite sideout player and server. She had success with Kessey and their incredible teamwork and sideout game took them a long way. In theory at least a similar team to Duda/Agatha. But there isnt another US player like that right now and I think April needs a way to score against teams that can pass her serves. Without Kerri to put pressure on teams blocking, April's defense is a lot weaker I agree April should look at blocking if need be and I also think she needs to be more aggressive in searching out a partner. Figure out who is her best possible partner (its probably Kelly or Sara) then really go after that person. Enough with the slumber party ethos. When you look at the success that April and Kessey had, it's hard to believe that players like Lane, E. day, Kim D, Stockman, Flint, are that behind Kessey. Who was good, but I didn't think top tier. Maybe I underrated her?
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Post by guest2 on Nov 2, 2017 10:36:08 GMT -5
I don't think April was ever an elite defender. I think she was/is an elite sideout player and server. She had success with Kessey and their incredible teamwork and sideout game took them a long way. In theory at least a similar team to Duda/Agatha. But there isnt another US player like that right now and I think April needs a way to score against teams that can pass her serves. Without Kerri to put pressure on teams blocking, April's defense is a lot weaker I agree April should look at blocking if need be and I also think she needs to be more aggressive in searching out a partner. Figure out who is her best possible partner (its probably Kelly or Sara) then really go after that person. Enough with the slumber party ethos. When you look at the success that April and Kessey had, it's hard to believe that players like Lane, E. day, Kim D, Stockman, Flint, are that behind Kessey. Who was good, but I didn't think top tier. Maybe I underrated her? Jen at her best was much better than everyone on that list except Day. She was better than Day but not necessarily by a ton. I think Ross/Kessey, more than almost any team I can think of (Summer Brooke are another) were a "better than the sum of their parts" team because of the teamwork and cool offense they ran. Kerri/April and Phil/Sean are the textbook examples for the opposite. Both great teams and usually best or second best in the world during their runs, but the players did not add to each other's talents the way a Larissa/Talita or Smith/Stoklos at the end of their run did
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Post by greenpier on Nov 2, 2017 11:27:18 GMT -5
I agree April should look at blocking if need be and I also think she needs to be more aggressive in searching out a partner. USe your crystal ball.............Kerri is out for 2020 Tokyo..........................who would you pick for April Ross to partner with?
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Post by guest2 on Nov 2, 2017 11:40:02 GMT -5
I agree April should look at blocking if need be and I also think she needs to be more aggressive in searching out a partner. USe your crystal ball.............Kerri is out for 2020 Tokyo..........................who would you pick for April Ross to partner with? I'd learn to jump serve and run to the net and try to pick up Sara. Either that or Klineman
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Post by JB Southpaw on Nov 2, 2017 12:29:34 GMT -5
USe your crystal ball.............Kerri is out for 2020 Tokyo..........................who would you pick for April Ross to partner with? I'd learn to jump serve and run to the net and try to pick up Sara. Either that or Klineman I thought about including Alix into the mix. She'd get every serve playing with April, not sure if she can handle that. I do think the best partner for her in 2020 would be Kelly. Kelly is young, but she moves really well for her size. I see her getting super good, probably better than Sara. Having said that, April may not be Kelly's best choice in 2020!
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Post by haze on Nov 2, 2017 12:48:39 GMT -5
How would one rank the US players? I would be curious to where Brittany Hochevar would rank? She is 36, but she is in tip top shape and I would consider her one of the more athletic players the US have right now. She is a 6' excellent all around player who has been successful both blocking and playing defense, at least in the US currently anyways. Is she better than she was a couple years ago when she was playing with Misty May in those couple tournaments? Why was she partnerless in the 2016 quad, she's a damn good player right now but I don't know where she was as a player 5 years ago.
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Post by downtheline on Nov 2, 2017 14:03:07 GMT -5
Britt was ripped this season after working out & partnering with M. She is a baller and goes for your throat. A fan favorite and an athletic family too boot.
As true beach fans, I don't understand why people want to see April jump in and ruin a partnership like C&H.
I would rather see the young guns continue their journey of taking on the world together and hopefully become a force on the tour for the next decade or more.
Ross & Hughes forces April to switch to a blocker, making her have to run to the net after spending leg energy to accomplish her jump serves. That is a big change thus taking her out of her comfort zone in the twilight of her career.
If Alix would dedicate her life too the beach, (needs serious weight training) she and April could be one solid USA team. C&H or someone else who knocks them off the other..
If your read Misty's book, she mentions many times that Kerri's blocking ability changed their opponents game style and allowed them to dominate. I just don't see any American players with the quicks and smarts of the Brazilians game, so we cannot expect two average sized players to compete like they do, imho.
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Post by guest2 on Nov 2, 2017 14:13:37 GMT -5
Britt was ripped this season after working out & partnering with M. She is a baller and goes for your throat. A fan favorite and an athletic family too boot. As true beach fans, I don't understand why people want to see April jump in and ruin a partnership like C&H. I would rather see the young guns continue their journey of taking on the world together and hopefully become a force on the tour for the next decade or more. Ross & Hughes forces April to switch to a blocker, making her have to run to the net after spending leg energy to accomplish her jump serves. That is a big change thus taking her out of her comfort zone in the twilight of her career. If Alix would dedicate her life too the beach, (needs serious weight training) she and April could be one solid USA team. C&H or someone else who knocks them off the other.. If your read Misty's book, she mentions many times that Kerri's blocking ability changed their opponents game style and allowed them to dominate. I just don't see any American players with the quicks and smarts of the Brazilians game, so we cannot expect two average sized players to compete like they do, imho. April isnt average sized. She is huge for a defender and tall for a blocker. She is taller than Kira and Talita for example. Also I am not sure why people think if Claes/Hughes split they could never play together again. Here are some teams that split then later played together again: Smith/Stoklos Hov/Dodd Kiraly/Steffes Blanton/Fonoi Nick/Phil Kirby/Masakayan Reno/McPeak Every one of those teams (except Eric/Dain) is one of the best in US history. Plus why would "true fans" care if Claes/Hughes stay together as opposed to any other team? In the long run its almost always better for young to play with old first
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goudey
Banned
"I sorta get away with things like that." —Donald Trump
Posts: 1,344
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Post by goudey on Nov 2, 2017 14:14:17 GMT -5
It's fun to see Hochevar winning a few. I love her passion and she has a great pose staring at the wilson logo with her arm stretched before her serve. That would make as cool a logo as the avp spiking dude. Since she has her clothing line, she needs to use this as her logo somehow. No, I know nothing of design or fashion lol, but it looks cool.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Nov 2, 2017 14:24:17 GMT -5
How would one rank the US players? I would be curious to where Brittany Hochevar would rank? She is 36, but she is in tip top shape and I would consider her one of the more athletic players the US have right now. She is a 6' excellent all around player who has been successful both blocking and playing defense, at least in the US currently anyways. Is she better than she was a couple years ago when she was playing with Misty May in those couple tournaments? Why was she partnerless in the 2016 quad, she's a damn good player right now but I don't know where she was as a player 5 years ago. Honestly? Because nobody wants to put up with her sh!t.
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