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Post by jasonr on Dec 17, 2019 10:20:13 GMT -5
I am not team Orr. But, I surely am not team Hames either. I am hoping that Drewnick has a wonderful offseason. 1) Hames is too short to play on the net, it cost Huskers a huge amount of points this last season, especially against great teams. 2) Hames setting comes in 2 grades, that which she can do but is highly inconsistent & that which she can't do & so doesn't attempt it very much. Actually, the Hames height thing is completely overblown. The reason we went to the double sub so infrequently this year is because after charting and grading it as the season developed, the staff found that it wasn't a problematic rotation and opp. hit eff. against Hames was no better than expectation. In fact, unless she's matched up against a truly elite attacker, it doesn't even warrant discussion. |
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Post by FreeBall on Dec 17, 2019 10:43:10 GMT -5
I am not team Orr. But, I surely am not team Hames either. I am hoping that Drewnick has a wonderful offseason. 1) Hames is too short to play on the net, it cost Huskers a huge amount of points this last season, especially against great teams. 2) Hames setting comes in 2 grades, that which she can do but is highly inconsistent & that which she can't do & so doesn't attempt it very much. Actually, the Hames height thing is completely overblown. The reason we went to the double sub so infrequently this year is because after charting and grading it as the season developed, the staff found that it wasn't a problematic rotation and opp. hit eff. against Hames was no better than expectation. In fact, unless she's matched up against a truly elite attacker, it doesn't even warrant discussion. I'd be curious to know what the charting and grading showed regarding the effectiveness of the double sub? I can't imagine it showed anything real positive, yet we continued to use it at least once during most sets throughout the latter part of the season. |
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Post by Kingsley on Dec 17, 2019 10:51:16 GMT -5
While I’ve got everyone fixated on Kennedi Orr, I’d highly recommend checking out the U18 World Championship quarterfinals and semifinals if you haven’t seen them already. This channel used to have the championship match versus Italy, but I think YouTube axed it and I haven’t found a replay online yet. Mildly bitter about that one.
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Post by donut on Dec 17, 2019 12:30:37 GMT -5
I am not team Orr. But, I surely am not team Hames either. I am hoping that Drewnick has a wonderful offseason. 1) Hames is too short to play on the net, it cost Huskers a huge amount of points this last season, especially against great teams. 2) Hames setting comes in 2 grades, that which she can do but is highly inconsistent & that which she can't do & so doesn't attempt it very much. Actually, the Hames height thing is completely overblown. The reason we went to the double sub so infrequently this year is because after charting and grading it as the season developed, the staff found that it wasn't a problematic rotation and opp. hit eff. against Hames was no better than expectation. In fact, unless she's matched up against a truly elite attacker, it doesn't even warrant discussion. I was about to say... Teams have won National Championships with shorter setters than Hames. I think most coaches would take a shorter setter with great hands, over a taller setter with poor hands (maybe except for Texas don't @ me). Hames, especially for her height, got a lot of really good back touches throughout the year. Teams, knowing they have a weaker blocker, can also serve to other areas of the court to try and funnel the ball away from the weaker blocker. We're usually one of the best passing/serving teams in the country (not as much the case this year) so I think the team can perfectly manage with a shorter setter, IF she's bringing solid setting, especially in transition plays. |
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Post by bball on Dec 17, 2019 13:09:17 GMT -5
Actually, the Hames height thing is completely overblown. The reason we went to the double sub so infrequently this year is because after charting and grading it as the season developed, the staff found that it wasn't a problematic rotation and opp. hit eff. against Hames was no better than expectation. In fact, unless she's matched up against a truly elite attacker, it doesn't even warrant discussion. I was about to say... Teams have won National Championships with shorter setters than Hames. I think most coaches would take a shorter setter with great hands, over a taller setter with poor hands (maybe except for Texas don't @ me). Hames, especially for her height, got a lot of really good back touches throughout the year. Teams, knowing they have a weaker blocker, can also serve to other areas of the court to try and funnel the ball away from the weaker blocker. We're usually one of the best passing/serving teams in the country (not as much the case this year) so I think the team can perfectly manage with a shorter setter, IF she's bringing solid setting, especially in transition plays. +1 |
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Post by jasonr on Dec 17, 2019 13:39:33 GMT -5
“ I don’t see any evidence to suggest he wouldn’t put the best player on the floor regardless of what year they were, or how many years they started.” Remember 2014? Mary Pollmiller? That one was a head scratcher. Pollmiller was the best option at the time. People have selection bias with respect to Hunter and only remember the good things she did (championships are a great mental eraser), but people would be surprised by how rocky her first couple years in the program were. She quit the team and Cook talked her into coming back, then Cook almost kicked her off the team later on. Even during the first championship year with her at setter and the following year, Cook rode her in practice all the time because of her poor footwork, poor set location, inability to read the block and make decisions, etc. Cook isn't fond of her because of the championships, but because it's one of the best coaching jobs he's ever done. Her evolution from year 1 to year 5 was incredible, both from a technical standpoint and in terms of personality/leadership. Cook would be the first to tell you that Hunter benefitted from not being in the public eye those first two years and not having the pressure to start. |
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Post by lvcalum on Dec 17, 2019 14:45:50 GMT -5
“ I don’t see any evidence to suggest he wouldn’t put the best player on the floor regardless of what year they were, or how many years they started.” Remember 2014? Mary Pollmiller? That one was a head scratcher. Pollmiller was the best option at the time. People have selection bias with respect to Hunter and only remember the good things she did (championships are a great mental eraser), but people would be surprised by how rocky her first couple years in the program were. She quit the team and Cook talked her into coming back, then Cook almost kicked her off the team later on. Even during the first championship year with her at setter and the following year, Cook rode her in practice all the time because of her poor footwork, poor set location, inability to read the block and make decisions, etc. Cook isn't fond of her because of the championships, but because it's one of the best coaching jobs he's ever done. Her evolution from year 1 to year 5 was incredible, both from a technical standpoint and in terms of personality/leadership. Cook would be the first to tell you that Hunter benefitted from not being in the public eye those first two years and not having the pressure to start. Interesting info on Hunter. Maybe Pollmiller was the best option. However, if she was that is a scary testament to the state of Husker setting at that time. I’m certainly no expert, but I’ve seen quite a few Husker setters play (going back to Tisha Delaney) and Pollmiller was the weakest of any I can recall. |
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Post by lvcalum on Dec 17, 2019 15:23:49 GMT -5
Actually, the Hames height thing is completely overblown. The reason we went to the double sub so infrequently this year is because after charting and grading it as the season developed, the staff found that it wasn't a problematic rotation and opp. hit eff. against Hames was no better than expectation. In fact, unless she's matched up against a truly elite attacker, it doesn't even warrant discussion. I was about to say... Teams have won National Championships with shorter setters than Hames. I think most coaches would take a shorter setter with great hands, over a taller setter with poor hands (maybe except for Texas don't @ me). Hames, especially for her height, got a lot of really good back touches throughout the year. Teams, knowing they have a weaker blocker, can also serve to other areas of the court to try and funnel the ball away from the weaker blocker. We're usually one of the best passing/serving teams in the country (not as much the case this year) so I think the team can perfectly manage with a shorter setter, IF she's bringing solid setting, especially in transition plays. One since 2006 - Kristin Carpenter 5’ 6” Penn State 2010. The eye test says Hames’ height is a big blocking liability. Maybe there’s a way to sabermetrics it away with block touches, etc., etc. It would be less of an issue if she was better at her main job. That being said, I thought her setting was pretty good against Hawaii. |
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Post by staticb on Dec 17, 2019 15:36:32 GMT -5
Interesting info on Hunter. Maybe Pollmiller was the best option. However, if she was that is a scary testament to the state of Husker setting at that time. I’m certainly no expert, but I’ve seen quite a few Husker setters play (going back to Tisha Delaney) and Pollmiller was the weakest of any I can recall. I remember watching her play--I think she is one of those setters who looks worse than they are. She clearly did not have "magic hands" and her technique wasn't the greatest. But I thought she set a very consistent ball, at least in her senior year.
(Plus she was good in the front row as well)
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Post by donut on Dec 17, 2019 16:08:06 GMT -5
I was about to say... Teams have won National Championships with shorter setters than Hames. I think most coaches would take a shorter setter with great hands, over a taller setter with poor hands (maybe except for Texas don't @ me). Hames, especially for her height, got a lot of really good back touches throughout the year. Teams, knowing they have a weaker blocker, can also serve to other areas of the court to try and funnel the ball away from the weaker blocker. We're usually one of the best passing/serving teams in the country (not as much the case this year) so I think the team can perfectly manage with a shorter setter, IF she's bringing solid setting, especially in transition plays. One since 2006 - Kristin Carpenter 5’ 6” Penn State 2010. The eye test says Hames’ height is a big blocking liability. Maybe there’s a way to sabermetrics it away with block touches, etc., etc. It would be less of an issue if she was better at her main job. That being said, I thought her setting was pretty good against Hawaii. I'm assuming you didn't go back to 2005 to include Courtney Thompson on purpose lol... Regardless, since 2006 there have only been 8 setters to win National Championships (Glass, Grey, Hunter and Hancock all have multiple). Holloway is listed as the same height as Hames, and 4 of those setters are only 1 inch taller than Hames (Van Orden, Allison, Hancock and Hunter). Grey and Glass are the only two 6' and up. If we want to expand to runner-ups/Final 4 teams, I'm sure the list grows (Plum at 5'9" in 2012 comes to mind). Of course you're going to give up some blocking if you have a setter sub-6' (which most teams do) but I'd challenge your eye test because I think her blocking was good for her height. Nonetheless, I don't think our standard should be Grey/Glass, and I'm not sure how much of a noticeable improvement/change you would see with one more inch (5'11"). But agreed - everything becomes a bigger issue when her setting isn't up to par. |
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Post by lvcalum on Dec 17, 2019 16:28:55 GMT -5
One since 2006 - Kristin Carpenter 5’ 6” Penn State 2010. The eye test says Hames’ height is a big blocking liability. Maybe there’s a way to sabermetrics it away with block touches, etc., etc. It would be less of an issue if she was better at her main job. That being said, I thought her setting was pretty good against Hawaii. I'm assuming you didn't go back to 2005 to include Courtney Thompson on purpose lol... Regardless, since 2006 there have only been 8 setters to win National Championships (Glass, Grey, Hunter and Hancock all have multiple). Holloway is listed as the same height as Hames, and 4 of those setters are only 1 inch taller than Hames (Van Orden, Allison, Hancock and Hunter). Grey and Glass are the only two 6' and up. If we want to expand to runner-ups/Final 4 teams, I'm sure the list grows (Plum at 5'9" in 2012 comes to mind). Of course you're going to give up some blocking if you have a setter sub-6' (which most teams do) but I'd challenge your eye test because I think her blocking was good for her height. Nonetheless, I don't think our standard should be Grey/Glass, and I'm not sure how much of a noticeable improvement/change you would see with one more inch (5'11"). But agreed - everything becomes a bigger issue when her setting isn't up to par. I figured I have suffered enough watching Thompson cheerlead for the USWNT! It would be interesting to study the average height of pin hitters now vs. 10-15 years ago. It sure seems like they are bigger (e.g. KP, Fitz, Jordan Thompson, etc.). Cal had Tarah Murrey in 2010 at 6’ 3” (I’m not sure if she matched up with Carpenter). I will grant you that Hames will get the occasional block because someone is trying to hit straight down over the top of her. Ultimately, I just keep thinking about what my captain told me once about being tall - “at the end of the day I’m tired and you are still tall.” I’m mostly just jealous because we are out and now I have to watch Jenna Grey and Sydney Hilley put up all those beautifully hittable sets! |
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Post by jasonr on Dec 17, 2019 17:43:27 GMT -5
I'm assuming you didn't go back to 2005 to include Courtney Thompson on purpose lol... Regardless, since 2006 there have only been 8 setters to win National Championships (Glass, Grey, Hunter and Hancock all have multiple). Holloway is listed as the same height as Hames, and 4 of those setters are only 1 inch taller than Hames (Van Orden, Allison, Hancock and Hunter). Grey and Glass are the only two 6' and up. If we want to expand to runner-ups/Final 4 teams, I'm sure the list grows (Plum at 5'9" in 2012 comes to mind). Of course you're going to give up some blocking if you have a setter sub-6' (which most teams do) but I'd challenge your eye test because I think her blocking was good for her height. Nonetheless, I don't think our standard should be Grey/Glass, and I'm not sure how much of a noticeable improvement/change you would see with one more inch (5'11"). But agreed - everything becomes a bigger issue when her setting isn't up to par. I figured I have suffered enough watching Thompson cheerlead for the USWNT! It would be interesting to study the average height of pin hitters now vs. 10-15 years ago. It sure seems like they are bigger (e.g. KP, Fitz, Jordan Thompson, etc.). Cal had Tarah Murrey in 2010 at 6’ 3” (I’m not sure if she matched up with Carpenter). I will grant you that Hames will get the occasional block because someone is trying to hit straight down over the top of her. Ultimately, I just keep thinking about what my captain told me once about being tall - “at the end of the day I’m tired and you are still tall.” I’m mostly just jealous because we are out and now I have to watch Jenna Grey and Sydney Hilley put up all those beautifully hittable sets! Every set is beautifully hittable to Plummer and Rettke. They're monsters (in the best possible way). Stanford fans have actually complained a lot about Gray's setting over the years, but like Kelly Hunter, it becomes forgivable when rings are introduced into the equation. |
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Post by hochee on Dec 17, 2019 22:30:15 GMT -5
Orr is ridiculously talented. She is more talented than anyone in college right now. That said, she's on even footing with every other setter in the world -- Is she the right fit for the particular group with whom she'll be playing? A challenge will be whether she and her coaches can find the most effective ways to leverage her talent. Otherwise, she's "just" Carlini....big splash first year, calm waters last three. You know who was the #2 setter in the nation the year Carlini came out of high school? Kelly Hunter, two national titles to zero for Carlini the Magnificent. Setters as catalysts are multi-variable equations. :-) Though I believe Orr is quite talented. I dont believe she is as ordained 'right now'as many of you are suggesting at this time. She still has a ways to go and lots of room for improvement. Yes, I believe she will get there soon. But she still has some development coming.... sorry guys. Just stating some facts here. The 2021 class is great for Nebraska. But all players have development needed. Krause can improve on passing and blocking. Batenhorst needs to improve her contact point and vertical. Rodriguez still suspect in passing and bump setting. Gray needs better speed and more strength.... whitney needs to keep her offense improving and she def is getting there.... But, there is still plenty of work for this group. I know they still have another year of high school. But I hope they can still improve throughout the next year if they want to make immediate impacts as freshman and play for national titles. Our freshman this season took a long road to improvement. This 2021.class wont be much different. I think 22' 23' 24' we will be happy with this class. But 21 will be a growing year for the program. No need to be sorry |
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Post by hochee on Dec 17, 2019 22:37:51 GMT -5
Hames is a marvelous setter. And I don't get this talk of libero, I doubt she is mobile enough for that. Why is it even a thing for anyone? Kennedi can sit for a year or not --she's a superstar, but Miss Hames will deserve to finish it out. I kinda never want her to leave.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Dec 17, 2019 22:42:25 GMT -5
Hames is a marvelous setter. And I don't get this talk of libero, I doubt she is mobile enough for that. Why is it even a thing for anyone? Kennedi can sit for a year or not --she's a superstar, but Miss Hames will deserve to finish it out. I kinda never want her to leave. Oh my gosh she is more than mobile enough and athletic enough. The absurdity of the argument is that she has been an incredible setter and leader and that the number 1 requirement for Liberos is to receive serve in which she never does and is in many ways a different skill set than digging. I don’t doubt she could play the position but the idea she should or could automatically transition there is ludicrous |
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