|
|
Post by zero-rotation outside hitter on Mar 15, 2020 13:19:26 GMT -5
Seems like a solid recruit for Minnesota; lots of upside. I'm getting less and less impressed with those lists. She may not be ready to play day one but appears to be very athletic in the front row and I like her serve too. What "lists?" Like Prepvolleyball rankings? Seems like could be a great replacement on the right side after Samedy graduates. I've generally been under the impression/expectation that Taylor Landfair may be moved to the right side after the 2020 season. With a 6'4" lefty coming in in 2021, however, that raises doubts. Which further makes me question what the future on the left side looks like over the the next two years. I LOVE that MN has this problem. Namely, Rollins, Landfair, Wenaas and even Miyabe vying for playing time (sorry Claire). Ultimately, I just want whoever is the most effective to be on the court, and time of course will tell. But I continue to question Rollins's place in the starting lineup. Experience is a big deal, and Rollins has improved a lot. I can also see how Landfair and Wenaas might just provide too much firepower to not play over her (at least in front row), and then if Crowl comes in as the heir-apparent at opposite, maybe Landfair can stay on the left. This also brings the role of McKenna Wucherer into question starting 2022. Landfair/Wenaas only juniors at that point. Will Wucherer wait to play until she's a junior if she can't beat either of them out for starting role (even if she's redshirted a year??). Again nice problem to have. I just don't want best-in-country talent transferring if they don't get 3-4 years guaranteed starting roles. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 16:01:57 GMT -5
Seems like a solid recruit for Minnesota; lots of upside. I'm getting less and less impressed with those lists. She may not be ready to play day one but appears to be very athletic in the front row and I like her serve too. What "lists?" Like Prepvolleyball rankings? Seems like could be a great replacement on the right side after Samedy graduates. I've generally been under the impression/expectation that Taylor Landfair may be moved to the right side after the 2020 season. With a 6'4" lefty coming in in 2021, however, that raises doubts. Which further makes me question what the future on the left side looks like over the the next two years. I LOVE that MN has this problem. Namely, Rollins, Landfair, Wenaas and even Miyabe vying for playing time (sorry Claire). Ultimately, I just want whoever is the most effective to be on the court, and time of course will tell. But I continue to question Rollins's place in the starting lineup. Experience is a big deal, and Rollins has improved a lot. I can also see how Landfair and Wenaas might just provide too much firepower to not play over her (at least in front row), and then if Crowl comes in as the heir-apparent at opposite, maybe Landfair can stay on the left. This also brings the role of McKenna Wucherer into question starting 2022. Landfair/Wenaas only juniors at that point. Will Wucherer wait to play until she's a junior if she can't beat either of them out for starting role (even if she's redshirted a year??). Again nice problem to have. I just don't want best-in-country talent transferring if they don't get 3-4 years guaranteed starting roles. If you're questioning Rollins' place in the line up, you're not aware of the ball control numbers. Over the last two seasons she has passed 1,321 balls. The next closest to her has passed 982! She also the only pin on the roster who has passed better than a 2.0 over a season (in 2018). Obviously if Landfair and/or Weenas show they can pass reliably, they'd be likely to take that spot (I'm sure you know Rollins wasn't very terminal this year - 31%). But she played this year because SOMEONE needs to pass the ball... |
|
|
|
Post by zero-rotation outside hitter on Mar 15, 2020 16:20:04 GMT -5
What "lists?" Like Prepvolleyball rankings? Seems like could be a great replacement on the right side after Samedy graduates. I've generally been under the impression/expectation that Taylor Landfair may be moved to the right side after the 2020 season. With a 6'4" lefty coming in in 2021, however, that raises doubts. Which further makes me question what the future on the left side looks like over the the next two years. I LOVE that MN has this problem. Namely, Rollins, Landfair, Wenaas and even Miyabe vying for playing time (sorry Claire). Ultimately, I just want whoever is the most effective to be on the court, and time of course will tell. But I continue to question Rollins's place in the starting lineup. Experience is a big deal, and Rollins has improved a lot. I can also see how Landfair and Wenaas might just provide too much firepower to not play over her (at least in front row), and then if Crowl comes in as the heir-apparent at opposite, maybe Landfair can stay on the left. This also brings the role of McKenna Wucherer into question starting 2022. Landfair/Wenaas only juniors at that point. Will Wucherer wait to play until she's a junior if she can't beat either of them out for starting role (even if she's redshirted a year??). Again nice problem to have. I just don't want best-in-country talent transferring if they don't get 3-4 years guaranteed starting roles. If you're questioning Rollins' place in the line up, you're not aware of the ball control numbers. Over the last two seasons she has passed 1,321 balls. The next closest to her has passed 982! She also the only pin on the roster who has passed better than a 2.0 over a season (in 2018). Obviously if Landfair and/or Weenas show they can pass reliably, they'd be likely to take that spot (I'm sure you know Rollins wasn't very terminal this year - 31%). But she played this year because SOMEONE needs to pass the ball... You just made an argument yourself questioning whether Rollins will keep her starting spot: "...if Landfair and/or Wenaas show they can pass reliably, they'd be likely to take that spot." I basically concede in my post that Rollins will be the better passer (duh?) but if Landfair/Wenaas provide too much firepower (hitting) to supersede that, they they might get the nod. Everyone is aware that Rollins' all-around game (namely ball control) keeps her in the lineup as an outside. Please also keep in mind that some of the "volume" stats for passing are that she's picked on as a more vulnerable passer. We don't have those numbers for the two incoming freshmen hitters. Even if they pass under Rollins' proficiency, it's reasonable to consider if Hugh will take the slightly lower ball control if the hitting numbers outweigh them significantly. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 16:29:22 GMT -5
If you're questioning Rollins' place in the line up, you're not aware of the ball control numbers. Over the last two seasons she has passed 1,321 balls. The next closest to her has passed 982! She also the only pin on the roster who has passed better than a 2.0 over a season (in 2018). Obviously if Landfair and/or Weenas show they can pass reliably, they'd be likely to take that spot (I'm sure you know Rollins wasn't very terminal this year - 31%). But she played this year because SOMEONE needs to pass the ball... You just made an argument yourself questioning whether Rollins will keep her starting spot: "...if Landfair and/or Wenaas show they can pass reliably, they'd be likely to take that spot." I basically concede in my post that Rollins will be the better passer (duh?) but if Landfair/Wenaas provide too much firepower (hitting) to supersede that, they they might get the nod. Everyone is aware that Rollins' all-around game (namely ball control) keeps her in the lineup as an outside. Please also keep in mind that some of the "volume" stats for passing are that she's picked on as a more vulnerable passer. We don't have those numbers for the two incoming freshmen hitters. Even if they pass under Rollins' proficiency, it's reasonable to consider if Hugh will take the slightly lower ball control if the hitting numbers outweigh them significantly. You said "But I continue to question Rollins's place in the starting lineup"... That suggests you have questioned it in the past. I was answering that 'question'. Rollins passed a 1.89 on the season. As I've said previously, anything below 2.0 from an OH is poor. If an OH is passing 1.89 and only terminating at 31%, but still plays the entire year she is the ONLY one that can pass. Which also speaks to why your final statement is probably not correct. If Weenas and Landfair can't manage better than 1.9 on the season I can't see them replacing Rollins. But again, 1.9 isn't much of standard on which to improve, and (like you) I'm hopeful one or both will come in and pass (and hit) better. |
|
|
|
Post by zero-rotation outside hitter on Mar 15, 2020 16:36:23 GMT -5
You just made an argument yourself questioning whether Rollins will keep her starting spot: "...if Landfair and/or Wenaas show they can pass reliably, they'd be likely to take that spot." I basically concede in my post that Rollins will be the better passer (duh?) but if Landfair/Wenaas provide too much firepower (hitting) to supersede that, they they might get the nod. Everyone is aware that Rollins' all-around game (namely ball control) keeps her in the lineup as an outside. Please also keep in mind that some of the "volume" stats for passing are that she's picked on as a more vulnerable passer. We don't have those numbers for the two incoming freshmen hitters. Even if they pass under Rollins' proficiency, it's reasonable to consider if Hugh will take the slightly lower ball control if the hitting numbers outweigh them significantly. You said "But I continue to question Rollins's place in the starting lineup"... That suggests you have questioned it in the past. I was answering that 'question'. Rollins passed a 1.89 on the season. As I've said previously, anything below 2.0 from an OH is poor. If an OH is passing 1.89 and only terminating at 31%, but still plays the entire year she is the ONLY one that can pass. Which also speaks to why your final statement is probably not correct. If Weenas and Landfair can't manage better than 1.9 on the season I can't see them replacing Rollins. But again, 1.9 isn't much of standard on which to improve, and (like you) I'm hopeful one or both will come in and pass (and hit) better. Yes, I continue to question it, as in I've commented on this site about it before for the same reasons (Landfair and Wenaas coming in). You're making my original argument for me. We don't need to argue. Also, then why can't Rollins just come in for either Landfair/Wenaas in the back row? Could even have subs for both if Samedy continues to play back row. Then we don't lose the "potentially" superior hitting, as well the superior passing ability. My concerns I guess boils down to whether Rollins plays six rotations. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 16:50:18 GMT -5
You said "But I continue to question Rollins's place in the starting lineup"... That suggests you have questioned it in the past. I was answering that 'question'. Rollins passed a 1.89 on the season. As I've said previously, anything below 2.0 from an OH is poor. If an OH is passing 1.89 and only terminating at 31%, but still plays the entire year she is the ONLY one that can pass. Which also speaks to why your final statement is probably not correct. If Weenas and Landfair can't manage better than 1.9 on the season I can't see them replacing Rollins. But again, 1.9 isn't much of standard on which to improve, and (like you) I'm hopeful one or both will come in and pass (and hit) better. Yes, I continue to question it, as in I've commented on this site about it before for the same reasons (Landfair and Wenaas coming in). You're making my original argument for me. We don't need to argue. Also, then why can't Rollins just come in for either Landfair/Wenaas in the back row? Could even have subs for both if Samedy continues to play back row. Then we don't lose the "potentially" superior hitting, as well the superior passing ability. My concerns I guess boils down to whether Rollins plays six rotations. I'm with you on most of this. And I'm not trying to argue. I get that Gopher fans think I'm an @$$%*!* because I talk about passing so much but I am pretty certain that if you guys saw the numbers you'd come to the same conclusions I have. The reason Rollins is unlikely to get DS'd is because her 2018 passing grade (2.06) is still the second best season passing grade of anyone on the roster. She passes even when she's front row. As I just mentioned, she dropped to 1.89 this year but the fact that Hugh didn't pull her (especially when she was hitting worse than in 2018 to) suggests that he knows he had no other option. Weenas & Landfair are really good prospects and I genuinely want to see them take that spot. But if neither of them can pass better than 1.89 they'll get eaten alive on the 3 rotations that they're expected to pass. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 17:16:18 GMT -5
OK. This has nothing to do with being defensive about the passing stats, but I still don't think they tell the whole story. If one player is being asked to pass (at least) 1/2 the court, it stands to reason her stats may be worse than a player passing 1/3 of the court.
No one passed that great last year. But CC was passing decently until she got hurt, after a mediocre start. I thought Kilkelly held up reasonably well for a frosh. Rollins was streaky, both offensively and in serve receive. Her defense was not at the level it was in 2018 either, imo.
I don't think it helped that they didn't have their best setter for most of the season or that their AA opposite had a bad year. Both of those things put additional pressure on the passers.
I hope for improvement next year, from everyone. I hope Wenaas and Appiani can help with serve receive. I hope Shaffmaster can set the team well. But, man, there are a lot of things that could go wrong.
Luckily, Hugh's been pretty darned good at finding something that works.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 17:41:37 GMT -5
OK. This has nothing to do with being defensive about the passing stats, but I still don't think they tell the whole story. If one player is being asked to pass (at least) 1/2 the court, it stands to reason her stats may be worse than a player passing 1/3 of the court. I think I told you this method before (it might have been another Minnesota fan) but NO ONE on the UMN roster passed half the court. Hugh is a great coach. Given the struggles the team was having no decent coach would stick with a 2 person SR formation if their passers were performing so poorly. UMN passed with 3 the entire season. CC took both her seams most of the time, but so does every solid libero. That isn't passing half the court. They just struggled. It happens. They still made the FF. CC is a great defender. Regarding the data, as I've said, I'm not looking just at stats. I have every game film, coded, and can pull up any touch from the entire season. The analytics ARE what happened on the year. Three's no point in hiding from it, I assure you Hugh isn't. Edit: Fully agree that with a healthy Miller that team is even more dangerous. She was fantastic (better than she was given credit for) and it's one reason I'd like to see an improvement in the passing... I'm not sure any Fr. setter could do what Miller did this year with the quality of passes she was receiving. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 18:01:10 GMT -5
bwf2, that's not true. I watched the matches. She was passing at least 1/2 the court and sometimes more. My eyes ain't lying to me. It might have changed a little when she was struggling, but I doubt it.
And, no, she wasn't passing 1/2 the court with one other passer. She was passing half the court with TWO other passers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 18:07:07 GMT -5
I'm not going to watch this whole match, and maybe it's totally anecdotal, but just watch the first two points (service) here. How is this not passing half the court?
It's also possible, in all the other matches, I just noticed it when she was doing it, and it wasn't all the time, but ...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 18:47:23 GMT -5
Let's just agree that the OH wasn't passing much of the court, whether it was Rollins or Hart. Kilkelly and Rollins (when back row) weren't passing as much as McGraw. The point being McGraw was expected to take more of the court than any other passer. This isn't going to help her stats.
|
|
|
|
Post by zero-rotation outside hitter on Mar 15, 2020 18:53:43 GMT -5
Lexi not passing might make any OH passing for MN "seem" great.
|
|
|
|
Post by B1Gminnesotafan on Mar 15, 2020 18:55:39 GMT -5
bwf2, that's not true. I watched the matches. She was passing at least 1/2 the court and sometimes more. My eyes ain't lying to me. It might have changed a little when she was struggling, but I doubt it. And, no, she wasn't passing 1/2 the court with one other passer. She was passing half the court with TWO other passers. Also, the outside hitter in the front row would step off the court as the ball passed over the net so CC could pass the left side line - even when it was Adanna Rollins. Rollins did cover some but only those right on the line. I just don't get why they did that. The only reason why Rollins had so many was because they targeted her. Foolish given that she passes just as well. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 19:37:37 GMT -5
I'm not going to watch this whole match, and maybe it's totally anecdotal, but just watch the first two points (service) here. How is this not passing half the court? It's also possible, in all the other matches, I just noticed it when she was doing it, and it wasn't all the time, but ... Erm, no. She begins the match in zone 6. You see that, right? She is covering both her seams (as I said). Her OH bails because the ball is in the seam, and she passes it. She is only passing half from zone 1, but again, that's what is expected of a good libero on a bad passing team. If you have some time to kill, go thru and see how many times she has a 0 or 1 pass in rotations 3 & 6... Again this isn't about Caroline. As I said to her mom, I like her! But claiming she's passing "at least half the floor" is just not true - and I know because I just watched every pass she made in the Florida match to make sure my memory wasn't faulty. Minnesota as a unit struggled passing. Rollins played because she's the best passer they have at the pins. Hopefully she gets back to 2018 form or the freshman come in and ball out. And hopefully this focus on passing helps Gopher fans understand a bit more about their team. |
|
|
|
Post by permagrin on Mar 15, 2020 20:15:26 GMT -5
Ok you are smarter than all of us, we just fell off the turnip truck last night i guess. Go beat something else into the ground for a while
|
|
