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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 14:06:34 GMT -5
HIV disproportionately affected gays and minorities, so that could have something to do with it.... While it is technically true that HIV could be spread through several different ways, it's principal mode of transmission has always been unprotected male gay sex. About 82 percent of cases. www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/men/index.htmlI'll never fail to grasp why media and politicians steadfastly dodged this factoid, but it in no way made it less true. I love smoking cigars. But I can't ignore that smoking is a known carcinogen just because I don't want to disparage my fellow cigar-smoking friends. We are too PC in this country for our own damn good. Interesting tangent. COVID-19 almost certainly came from eating animals, as did swine flu and avian flu. Be good if politicians were highlighting that, huh?
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Post by dman on Apr 12, 2020 14:07:53 GMT -5
HIV disproportionately affected gays and minorities, so that could have something to do with it.... While it is technically true that HIV could be spread through several different ways, it's principal mode of transmission has always been unprotected male gay sex. About 82 percent of cases. www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/men/index.htmlI'll never fail to grasp why media and politicians steadfastly dodged this factoid, but it in no way made it less true. I love smoking cigars. But I can't ignore that smoking is a known carcinogen just because I don't want to disparage my fellow cigar-smoking friends. We are too PC in this country for our own damn good. Agreed!
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Apr 12, 2020 14:14:00 GMT -5
I am not taking about how the US has responded vs. South Korea or anyone else - I am responding to the implication that the US lacks the testing capabilities of other countries and that this will delay being able to 'open' things up. The US is testing more per day per person than South Korea at anytime. Italy just ramped up their testing this week going from 550 people per 1M per day last week to over 700 per day this week. They are testing a LOT. Yet the state of New York is averaging 1,150 tests per 1M per day the past week - up from an average of 950 the week before. The US testing capabilities right now and most likely going forward is no longer a problem compared to the rest of the world - in fact the US is probably better positioned in terms of testing than anyone else. It's spurious talking point; you're ignoring the fact that, as the Koreans have shown, if we'd tested more extensively in the beginning we wouldn't NEED to be leading the world in testing rates now. Timing is everything. 'A stitch in time saves nine'. The fact that we fumbled the early testing process is a contributory factor to the scale of this issue. Nothing we do now will change that. I agree with all you said here (other than spurious talking point ) and have written nothing to the contrary to this. Someone claimed that the US testing capabilities are terrible right now and this prevents us from getting to a place where we can ease the stay at home orders. I am just claiming this is false. The current US testing capabilities is not a liability compared to the rest of the world. This doesn't resolve the problems our lack of early testing may have got us into.
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Post by carmilla on Apr 12, 2020 14:17:32 GMT -5
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Apr 12, 2020 14:22:47 GMT -5
One person I will NEVER argue numbers with is you! I feel the initial concern was the overrun of the hospital system. I’m curious as to what the numbers would have been in strictly being smart with social distancing and those that are elderly or comorbidities to be the ones to self quarantine. Agree the numbers would have been higher but would it have been enough to be worth destroying an economy? An interesting philosophical question. How much value do you place on the lives of your parents or spouse in relation to the macro-economy? I'd wager it's easier to look at this from a fiscal perspective before it affects your loved ones. This is a false premise. What value do I place on a loved one being a Policeman and losing his life in the line of duty vs. what is the value that *some* people do this work? What value do I place on the loved one working in a Hospital in NYC that ends up dying vs. the value these people collectively are making? What value do I place on the loved one that dies in a car accident vs. the value in being able to drive. Anything relative to the 1st person is almost never worth it. If there is a 100% chance I or someone directly in my family dies, then virtually anything that will prevent this is worth it to me. But it isn't a 100% chance - and each of us faces a % risk in everything. For society - optimal is never zero deaths or zero risk. However put this in terms of 1st person than the answer would be different.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Apr 12, 2020 14:34:21 GMT -5
HIV disproportionately affected gays and minorities, so that could have something to do with it.... While it is technically true that HIV could be spread through several different ways, it's principal mode of transmission has always been unprotected male gay sex. About 82 percent of cases. www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/men/index.htmlI'll never fail to grasp why media and politicians steadfastly dodged this factoid, but it in no way made it less true. I love smoking cigars. But I can't ignore that smoking is a known carcinogen just because I don't want to disparage my fellow cigar-smoking friends. We are too PC in this country for our own damn good. What are you trying to say here? Who was denying that Male-Male sex was the primary transmission method? I’ve heard that my whole life.
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Post by noblesol on Apr 12, 2020 14:35:31 GMT -5
While it is technically true that HIV could be spread through several different ways, it's principal mode of transmission has always been unprotected male gay sex. About 82 percent of cases. www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/men/index.htmlI'll never fail to grasp why media and politicians steadfastly dodged this factoid, but it in no way made it less true. I love smoking cigars. But I can't ignore that smoking is a known carcinogen just because I don't want to disparage my fellow cigar-smoking friends. We are too PC in this country for our own damn good. Interesting tangent. COVID-19 almost certainly came from eating animals, as did swine flu and avian flu. Be good if politicians were highlighting that, huh? Interesting tangent to claim with any assurance where COVID19 came from. Actually, that issue hasn't been settled. Given how the WHO has behaved as a shill for the China Communist Party line, and how the CCP has lied and deceived about COVID19 from the very start, and how the Wuhan market was closed and cleaned before any non CCP scientist could sample from where the animals were kept, or directly from any of the animals kept there.
The Epoch Times has produced an interesting video that suggests that the COVID19 virus may not have originated per the CCP propaganda. I don't know the truth, but I'm keeping an open mind until the CCP can be trusted (never), or until there is independent verification (CCP hasn't permitted it, and done everything to make it impossible).
"Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Virus":
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Post by volleydadtx on Apr 12, 2020 14:37:22 GMT -5
While it is technically true that HIV could be spread through several different ways, it's principal mode of transmission has always been unprotected male gay sex. About 82 percent of cases. www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/men/index.htmlI'll never fail to grasp why media and politicians steadfastly dodged this factoid, but it in no way made it less true. I love smoking cigars. But I can't ignore that smoking is a known carcinogen just because I don't want to disparage my fellow cigar-smoking friends. We are too PC in this country for our own damn good. What are you trying to say here? Who was denying that Male-Male sex was the primary transmission method? I’ve heard that my whole life. You didn't hear it from the media establishment nor the politicians and still don't. It ain't PC. Too disparaging to the gay community. You have to google to find out the real facts, just like a lot of other things.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 12, 2020 14:44:12 GMT -5
What are you trying to say here? Who was denying that Male-Male sex was the primary transmission method? I’ve heard that my whole life. You didn't hear it from the media establishment nor the politicians and still don't. It ain't PC. Too disparaging to the gay community. You have to google to find out the real facts, just like a lot of other things. Your echo chamber sounds fascinating.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 14:45:05 GMT -5
Interesting tangent. COVID-19 almost certainly came from eating animals, as did swine flu and avian flu. Be good if politicians were highlighting that, huh? Interesting tangent to claim with any assurance where COVID19 came from. Actually, that issue hasn't been settled. Given how the WHO has behaved as a shill for the China Communist Party line, and how the CCP has lied and deceived about COVID19 from the very start, and how the Wuhan market was closed and cleaned before any non CCP scientist could sample from where the animals were kept, or directly from any of the animals kept there.
The Epoch Times has produced an interesting video that suggests that the COVID19 virus may not have originated per the CCP propaganda. I don't know the truth, but I'm keeping an open mind until the CCP can be trusted (never), or until there is independent verification (CCP hasn't permitted it, and done everything to make it impossible).
"Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Virus":
Where did I mention the WHO? It's a zoonotic virus. It came from animals. Specifically wild animals. Likely passed to humans via pangolins (the most widely trafficked animal on earth) having originated in bats. I was only half joking. There's currently another outbreak of avian flu in South East Asia which could potentially be another pandemic. Stop eating animals and zoonotic viruses won't cross over into human populations. www.sciencealert.com/more-evidence-suggests-pangolins-may-have-passed-coronavirus-from-bats-to-humans/ampN.b. Using a far right mouthpiece like the "The Epoch Times" in anything other than an ironic fashion isn't going to make the point you think you're making.
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Post by noblesol on Apr 12, 2020 15:10:13 GMT -5
Interesting tangent to claim with any assurance where COVID19 came from. Actually, that issue hasn't been settled. Given how the WHO has behaved as a shill for the China Communist Party line, and how the CCP has lied and deceived about COVID19 from the very start, and how the Wuhan market was closed and cleaned before any non CCP scientist could sample from where the animals were kept, or directly from any of the animals kept there.
The Epoch Times has produced an interesting video that suggests that the COVID19 virus may not have originated per the CCP propaganda. I don't know the truth, but I'm keeping an open mind until the CCP can be trusted (never), or until there is independent verification (CCP hasn't permitted it, and done everything to make it impossible).
"Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Virus":
Where did I mention the WHO? It's a zoonotic virus. It came from animals. Specifically wild animals. Likely passed to humans via pangolins (the most widely trafficked animal on earth) having originated in bats. I was only half joking. There's currently another outbreak of avian flu in South East Asia which could potentially be another pandemic. Stop eating animals and zoonotic viruses won't cross over into human populations. www.sciencealert.com/more-evidence-suggests-pangolins-may-have-passed-coronavirus-from-bats-to-humans/ampThe current state of science opines the novel corona virus appears to be a chimeric. In other words a recombination of two or more different corona virus. If you'll watch the video, it will inform how research along these lines was being conducted by a China scientist operating out of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And, how many of the first known cases of COVID19 had zero association with the Wuhan Market. And one of the first cases may have been an assistant working at the Wuhan Virology Lab.
While it appears possible for a chimeric corona virus to have occurred in a pangolin, it also appears possible if not more likely that this chimeric occurred in a lab, not in the wild. If it occurred in the wild, they haven't found the source reservoir for it yet. The U.S. stopped funding the development of infectious corona virus chimerics for the very reason we are seeing play out now, because if it had escaped the potential for pandemic was horrific. That however, did not stop the CCP.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 12, 2020 15:15:14 GMT -5
Excuse me, please. I want to join this conversation, but in order to fit in, I first need to go grab the foil to make my hat.
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Post by noblesol on Apr 12, 2020 15:28:55 GMT -5
Excuse me, please. I want to join this conversation, but in order to fit in, I first need to go grab the foil to make my hat. Dr. Fauci, doesn't trust the CCP. Claims they lied, deceived, from the very beginning. Of course, you are free to trust the CCP re the Wuhan market and animals found there as a source. But if the CCP believes that, ask why they have allowed wet markets to reopen in China.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 12, 2020 15:33:17 GMT -5
Dude, I don't trust the Chinese government in the slightest, but seriously, every time you quote The Epoch Times it's like you are re-enacting the scene in Blazing Saddles where the sheriff takes himself hostage.
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Post by noblesol on Apr 12, 2020 16:02:02 GMT -5
Dude, I don't trust the Chinese government in the slightest, but seriously, every time you quote The Epoch Times it's like you are re-enacting the scene in Blazing Saddles where the sheriff takes himself hostage. Dude, you haven't bothered to deny their facts or claims. Don't trust them, that's fine. Mark 'em down 50% without further consideration. But weigh all the claims. The CCP is zero% trustworthy. What % do you assign to The Epoch Times? Truthfully, I don't care. But given I can't trust the CCP, and that all other sources of science have stated that the novel corona virus is a chimeric, there are only two ways that can happen.
One of those ways is in a lab, the very lab that was in Wuhan that conducted that type of research. A known fact, sourced from other than the Epoch Times.
The other way is on the small chance that a bat (likely a horse shoe bat, reportedly never sold in the Wuhan market, which reportedly wasn't trafficking in bats), and that species of bat which comes from many hundreds of miles away from Wuhan, but which were the subject of research by the China virology scientists, then may have infected a pangolin, which then caught or harbored another SARs like corona virus, where the two separate virus then cross-mutated into the novel corona virus, then that particular pangolin must then have been caught and transported to the Wuhan wet market, where it then found a human to jump to. But, then this human must have spread the virus far and wide within China, to others who had never had any association to the Wuhan market. Then, when the novel corona virus infections in humans could no longer be denied, China decided to shut down the Wuhan market, but in so doing they denied any outside independent scientist to confirm that any animal in the market was infected. They claimed to have found the virus on surfaces in the market, but there was no confirmation of what the source animal reservoir was. They destroyed it all before that could happen. Damn sloppy science, or damned efficient cover-up. You decide.
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