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Post by VolleyTX on Apr 18, 2020 20:13:46 GMT -5
I guess you misunderstood my question. I never said we needed them at every position. I didn't say we needed them at all. I simply asked if you thought we had any top 3 players at their respective positions and, if so, which ones. I'm still curious how you'd answer the question. Okay. I think Larson and Hill are and I think Carlini and Ogbogu could be. MBH and Robinson are probably top-10. Plummer should be entering her third summer starting on the national team, but isn't, so we can't count her. Not in any order, my opinion of the top OHs in the world: Natalia, Mihajlovic, Zhu Ting, Larson, Hill, Robinson, Barstch, Martinez, KYK. Sylla and Plak are in the conversation, on any given day. Buijs, Pietrini, that one from Turkey, the L2 for China probably make up the next tier. I'm not arguing your decisions for OH hitters, but isn't it intriguing that the USA has 4 of your top picks? Also, they have 4+ setters playing for top teams. The USA has always been deep at Middle blocker. YET, somehow we always disappoint at the olympics. Just something to think about. Is something in the Emotional DNA or the players? Is it coaching? I've said it several times before: Most of these American girls play better volleyball for their club teams than they do for USA volleyball.
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Post by jwvolley on Apr 18, 2020 20:28:53 GMT -5
What's your Tokyo roster and starters as it stands today? OH: Larson, Hill, MBHMB: Akinradewo (if in-shape), Ogbogu, Washington OPP: Drews, Thompson S: Carlini, Poulter L: Robinson, whoever else (JWO probably) Alternates: Foecke, Dixon, Courtney, Lowe, Hancock, Lake, Rettke Starters in bold. Looks good. Washington improved considerably this year. What's your rationale for MBH over Hill?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 20:29:34 GMT -5
OH: Larson, Hill, MBHMB: Akinradewo (if in-shape), Ogbogu, Washington OPP: Drews, Thompson S: Carlini, Poulter L: Robinson, whoever else (JWO probably) Alternates: Foecke, Dixon, Courtney, Lowe, Hancock, Lake, Rettke Starters in bold. Looks good. Washington improved considerably this year. What's your rationale for MBH over Hill? Idk.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 20:31:03 GMT -5
Okay. I think Larson and Hill are and I think Carlini and Ogbogu could be. MBH and Robinson are probably top-10. Plummer should be entering her third summer starting on the national team, but isn't, so we can't count her. Not in any order, my opinion of the top OHs in the world: Natalia, Mihajlovic, Zhu Ting, Larson, Hill, Robinson, Barstch, Martinez, KYK. Sylla and Plak are in the conversation, on any given day. Buijs, Pietrini, that one from Turkey, the L2 for China probably make up the next tier. Is Carlini top 3? Is Ogbogu? I said that I think they could be. As in, I think they have the potential to be.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 20:31:49 GMT -5
Okay. I think Larson and Hill are and I think Carlini and Ogbogu could be. MBH and Robinson are probably top-10. Plummer should be entering her third summer starting on the national team, but isn't, so we can't count her. Not in any order, my opinion of the top OHs in the world: Natalia, Mihajlovic, Zhu Ting, Larson, Hill, Robinson, Barstch, Martinez, KYK. Sylla and Plak are in the conversation, on any given day. Buijs, Pietrini, that one from Turkey, the L2 for China probably make up the next tier. Why top 3? Gold, silver, bronze. Everyone has this idea that through the NCAA we produce the best players but I don't know that we have a single player that's top 3 in their position right now. What does "gold, silver, bronze" have to do with ranking athletes? And I don't think you need a plurality of top-3 athletes if, for example, your top four OHs are all in the top-10 in the world.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 20:35:01 GMT -5
Okay. I think Larson and Hill are and I think Carlini and Ogbogu could be. MBH and Robinson are probably top-10. Plummer should be entering her third summer starting on the national team, but isn't, so we can't count her. Not in any order, my opinion of the top OHs in the world: Natalia, Mihajlovic, Zhu Ting, Larson, Hill, Robinson, Barstch, Martinez, KYK. Sylla and Plak are in the conversation, on any given day. Buijs, Pietrini, that one from Turkey, the L2 for China probably make up the next tier. So you'd say Larson and Hill are top 10? I can't see them top 3. Yes. Zhu is #1, and I think there are arguments to be made for Larson and Hill being top-3. I think there are arguments for KYK and Natalia to be there too, but Larson is widely regarded among professional coaches and athletes as one of the very best. There are quotes to support that out there somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 20:40:06 GMT -5
Okay. I think Larson and Hill are and I think Carlini and Ogbogu could be. MBH and Robinson are probably top-10. Plummer should be entering her third summer starting on the national team, but isn't, so we can't count her. Not in any order, my opinion of the top OHs in the world: Natalia, Mihajlovic, Zhu Ting, Larson, Hill, Robinson, Barstch, Martinez, KYK. Sylla and Plak are in the conversation, on any given day. Buijs, Pietrini, that one from Turkey, the L2 for China probably make up the next tier. I'm not arguing your decisions for OH hitters, but isn't it intriguing that the USA has 4 of your top picks? Also, they have 4+ setters playing for top teams. The USA has always been deep at Middle blocker. YET, somehow we always disappoint at the olympics. Just something to think about. Is something in the Emotional DNA or the players? Is it coaching? I've said it several times before: Most of these American girls play better volleyball for their club teams than they do for USA volleyball. Always disappoint? Not in Beijing. And coaches got in the way in 2012 and 2016. Your last statement probably deserves more discussion and might yield an important conclusion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 20:45:11 GMT -5
Okay. I think Larson and Hill are and I think Carlini and Ogbogu could be. MBH and Robinson are probably top-10. Plummer should be entering her third summer starting on the national team, but isn't, so we can't count her. Not in any order, my opinion of the top OHs in the world: Natalia, Mihajlovic, Zhu Ting, Larson, Hill, Robinson, Barstch, Martinez, KYK. Sylla and Plak are in the conversation, on any given day. Buijs, Pietrini, that one from Turkey, the L2 for China probably make up the next tier. Everyone has this idea that through the NCAA we produce the best players but I don't know that we have a single player that's top 3 in their position right now. I don't know if I've heard anyone say this. I have heard people say that the NCAA produces a much larger pool of professionals than any other system in the world.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 18, 2020 21:11:11 GMT -5
I have heard people say that the NCAA produces a much larger pool of professionals than any other system in the world. My guess (but just a guess) is that no other countries pay 4000-5000 women from 18-21 thousands of dollars every year (in scholarship money) to play indoor volleyball. As we've discussed in this thread and elsewhere, that's not exactly the same as paying them to train to be professional volleyball players, but it is something.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 21:14:47 GMT -5
I have heard people say that the NCAA produces a much larger pool of professionals than any other system in the world. My guess (but just a guess) is that no other countries pay 4000-5000 women from 18-21 thousands of dollars every year (in scholarship money) to play indoor volleyball. As we've discussed in this thread and elsewhere, that's not exactly the same as paying them to train to be professional volleyball players, but it is something. Fair, but the size of the pool of potential professional-level talent is the difference. When there are more fish in the pond, you're more likely to find a big fish I'd think.
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Post by donut on Apr 18, 2020 21:20:58 GMT -5
Even if we accept that we don't have top 3 positional athletes at every position right now, that doesn't necessarily mean we aren't producing them. I mean Karch pretty much exclusively looked at left-handed opposites for 6 years. It's not like the National Team was doing a good job of casting a wide net to identify potential talent...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 21:21:18 GMT -5
Okay. I think Larson and Hill are and I think Carlini and Ogbogu could be. MBH and Robinson are probably top-10. Plummer should be entering her third summer starting on the national team, but isn't, so we can't count her. Not in any order, my opinion of the top OHs in the world: Natalia, Mihajlovic, Zhu Ting, Larson, Hill, Robinson, Barstch, Martinez, KYK. Sylla and Plak are in the conversation, on any given day. Buijs, Pietrini, that one from Turkey, the L2 for China probably make up the next tier. Ok this is interesting. Thanks for taking the question in the way it was intended. So you'd say Larson and Hill are top 10? I can't see them top 3. just curious to who your top 3 are? i think a case can be made larson is the clear #2
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Post by VolleyTX on Apr 18, 2020 21:24:42 GMT -5
I'm not arguing your decisions for OH hitters, but isn't it intriguing that the USA has 4 of your top picks? Also, they have 4+ setters playing for top teams. The USA has always been deep at Middle blocker. YET, somehow we always disappoint at the olympics. Just something to think about. Is something in the Emotional DNA or the players? Is it coaching? I've said it several times before: Most of these American girls play better volleyball for their club teams than they do for USA volleyball. Always disappoint? Not in Beijing. And coaches got in the way in 2012 and 2016. Your last statement probably deserves more discussion and might yield an important conclusion. Agree with you there.... they did outperform their potential. They had a foreign coach too. Lots of interesting psychological issues at play. I think another big component is the lack of cohesiveness with USA volleyball..... their program.... their players.... etc. Most of the players from other countries have been playing together regularly for 4, 8, 10+ years. With USA volleyball, maybe half the squad have only been on the team together for 2+ years.
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Post by Murina on Apr 18, 2020 21:32:21 GMT -5
I don't know if I've heard anyone say this. I have heard people say that the NCAA produces a much larger pool of professionals than any other system in the world. Could it be that the USA produces the largest pool of players that play professionally abroad? Italy had 53 teams in Serie B1 last year, nearly all of the players Italian, and most of them are getting paid. That's to say nothing of the 20 teams in A2, almost all of whom are Italians. The same thing could be said for Russia. Something similar might be said for China & Brazil, but I'm not familiar of the structure there. Are we counting all players on NCAA scholarship as professional players?
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 18, 2020 21:38:25 GMT -5
Are we counting all players on NCAA scholarship as professional players? I guess that rather depends on the definition of "professional player".
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