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Post by Murina on Apr 19, 2020 17:06:54 GMT -5
...I can’t really see why would someone set Sorokaite out of system if type of player like Egonu or Smarzek are available Safety, reduced risk, situational. A quality set to someone like Sorokaite is often more productive than a bad set to an Egonu so managing risk is one reason. Or Sorokaite may have a matchup advantage. Or that OH may just be scoring. There are lots of reasons that might happen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 17:07:20 GMT -5
What?? Asking for CWC numbers is like asking for HS numbers...? It’s the most recent event in which they participated! Vitra v. Conegliano is a low-level match? An irrelevant point of comparison? What the hell is wrong with you How are you so bad at this I said this is a conversation about the Olympics (look at the title). Then why did you participate in the conversation about Hill v. KYK and about OOS distribution for the last 8 pages? C'mon man. It's a pretty common tactic to attempt to change the subject when you're struggling. I just wish you'd admit that since it's so obvious.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 17:08:08 GMT -5
While the numbers say that 2 OH's get more OoS swings than 1 OP, I think some of the argument comes down to general philosophy. In Europe & Brazil, I think most high level coaches would say that the OP is there to score points - in & out of system - and to shut down an opposing outside hitter. In Asia, the opposite's main job has historically been a ball handling, in-system attacking role. It matters in how players are created. If Egonu had grown up in China I suspect we would be seeing her on the left now, and if Zhu had grown up in Europe she would probably be an OP as a professional. If Lucia Bosetti had grown up in China or Japan I think there is a fair argument that she might be playing OP now. This is a wonderful post.
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Post by Reach on Apr 19, 2020 17:09:59 GMT -5
...I can’t really see why would someone set Sorokaite out of system if type of player like Egonu or Smarzek are available Safety, reduced risk, situational. A quality set to someone like Sorokaite is often more productive than a bad set to an Egonu so managing risk is one reason. Or Sorokaite may have a matchup advantage. Or that OH may just be scoring. There are lots of reasons that might happen. me confused. I thought Sorokaite was an OPP
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libro
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Post by libro on Apr 19, 2020 17:12:27 GMT -5
When was the last time “libero” appeared in a post in this thread? ALL Liberos suck.. especially if they don't have Zhu or KYK on their team. Make Liberos Great Again... install Zhu Ting today! SUCK?! Oh sir, let’s argue
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Post by Murina on Apr 19, 2020 17:12:35 GMT -5
me confused. I thought Sorokaite was an OPP Indre has bounced between both roles in both club & national team.
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Post by Reach on Apr 19, 2020 17:14:20 GMT -5
me confused. I thought Sorokaite was an OPP Indre has bounced between both roles in both club & national team. So she's like the Kristin Richards or Italian volleyball. She'll do anything for the team but actually be on an Olympic roster.
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Post by Murina on Apr 19, 2020 17:18:41 GMT -5
So she's like the Kristin Richards or Italian volleyball. She'll do anything for the team but actually be on an Olympic roster. That's probably a fair assessment! I haven't done the math, but I can see a route to Indre making an Olympic roster - but I have no idea if it will actually happen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 17:21:57 GMT -5
Agree with almost all of this, except the numbers don't show the combined OH hit more. They show that one OH either hit more OOS balls (Italy) or the same number (Poland). And those are two of the best Oppos in the game. Again, I'm not saying Oppos can't get set OOS. But to say it's their primary job (even if offenses that feature them) is just wrong. You are arguing numbers, the other person is arguing philosophy behind the numbers. You are both right from each of your perspectives. Not exactly. To make a blanket statement that the primary role of an opposite is to terminate OOS balls is simply not the case in this country (even at the highest level) and in the case of the two European nations I looked at earlier, both set their OH proportionally more often when out of system than their opposite. It is also false to say "top teams don't go to the left" when OOS. Creating and then supporting those narratives are unhelpful.
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Post by Reach on Apr 19, 2020 17:22:15 GMT -5
So she's like the Kristin Richards or Italian volleyball. She'll do anything for the team but actually be on an Olympic roster. That's probably a fair assessment! I haven't done the math, but I can see a route to Indre making an Olympic roster - but I have no idea if it will actually happen. I suppose she could slot in as the backup OPP/OH but I think we'll see Pietrini, Sylla and one if not both the sisters. What happened to Diouf?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 17:25:02 GMT -5
Safety, reduced risk, situational. A quality set to someone like Sorokaite is often more productive than a bad set to an Egonu so managing risk is one reason. Or Sorokaite may have a matchup advantage. Or that OH may just be scoring. There are lots of reasons that might happen. me confused. I thought Sorokaite was an OPP She certainly played OH against Poland in her last match for Italy.
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Post by Murina on Apr 19, 2020 17:29:40 GMT -5
I suppose she could slot in as the backup OPP/OH but I think we'll see Pietrini, Sylla and one if not both the sisters. What happened to Diouf? I think Diouf was in Asia the last couple years. She didn't turn out to be a high quality player in Europe. Better for her to get paid in Asia. Sorokaite's path to the Olympics probably requires an injury to an OP, and maybe to an OH. Especially now that Lucia has more time to recover from her shoulder surgery. Gennari is back in the OH mix now as well, so that is another obstacle that Indre would have to navigate. Like I said, I haven't really done the math...
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Post by donut on Apr 19, 2020 17:33:14 GMT -5
You are arguing numbers, the other person is arguing philosophy behind the numbers. You are both right from each of your perspectives. Not exactly. To make a blanket statement that it is the role of the opposite to terminate OOS balls is simply not the case in this country (even at the highest level) and in the case of the two European nations I looked at earlier, both set their OH proportionally more often when out of system than their opposite. It is also false to say "top teams don't go to the left" when OOS. Creating and then supporting those narratives are unhelpful. Stop misrepresenting arguments! It's astounding - you can't even keep your own arguments straight, let alone others. Are you that delusional to think one match (which you didn't even know how to present the data for) proves your point? I already modified my initial statement to get you to stop harping on it (it's honestly like interacting with a toddler who keeps screaming "tell me I'm right" over and over). The only "false" statement that's really at issue here is the hysterical one you made that Russia was the outlier in sending OOS balls to their OPP. The biggest mistake I made was not following Reach's lead with an "lol." I'm going to break this down very simply for you, since you seem to struggle with logical reasoning, data, and moving targets. 1) Amongst the good international NT and club teams, opposites are usually the "bailout" hitters (especially amongst non-Asian teams, as another poster has indicated). I won't use the phrase "#1" or "#1a" or "primary" since you can't seem to move past that. 2) On average, good international teams are going to try and set their terminal opposite more OOS balls. Again, one self-selected match doesn't prove anything. That's the simple argument I'm making that all started because you made a laughable claim. I never should have gone on the wild goose chase that is your reasoning. If you really don't think that Egonu is Italy's primary OOS target, you're delusional.
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Post by donut on Apr 19, 2020 17:35:42 GMT -5
Agree with almost all of this, except the numbers don't show the combined OH hit more. They show that one OH either hit more OOS balls (Italy) or the same number (Poland). And those are two of the best Oppos in the game. Again, I'm not saying Oppos can't get set OOS. But to say it's their primary job (even if offenses that feature them) is just wrong. You are arguing numbers, the other person is arguing philosophy behind the numbers. You are both right from each of your perspectives. He is arguing numbers from one game*. Important distinction.
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Post by donut on Apr 19, 2020 17:42:24 GMT -5
...I can’t really see why would someone set Sorokaite out of system if type of player like Egonu or Smarzek are available Safety, reduced risk, situational. A quality set to someone like Sorokaite is often more productive than a bad set to an Egonu so managing risk is one reason. Or Sorokaite may have a matchup advantage. Or that OH may just be scoring. There are lots of reasons that might happen. Exactly. It's crazy for someone to act like these factors can't add up to cause Sorokaite, in a single game, to receive more OOS sets and Egonu less OOS sets, and further, for someone to act like these numbers, again in a single game, are probative of Egonu not being the general primary OOS target.
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