libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
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Post by libro on Apr 19, 2020 15:50:54 GMT -5
When was the last time “libero” appeared in a post in this thread? If I’m following correctly they’re arguing about whether Hill or KYK should be the next USA libero. I’m gonna throw Tori Dixon in there for defensive purposes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 16:05:19 GMT -5
We weren’t. We were talking about the next best OHs after Zhu. You chose to report numbers that support your argument and are unwilling to report numbers that don’t (you have the advantage here since you know that even the diehard fans don’t have access to VM). You’re so much worse at building and following an argument than you think you are. Delusion - convince yourself. Haha, I'm not hiding Hills club stats from you because she hit .600 and terminated 64%. I cba to look them up because even IF she did hit .600, she isn't on the same level as Zhu, KYK or Larson at the Olympic level (I don't think even you would claim she is). That's the reason I posted the World Cup stats. Since you refused to engage with them, there's nothing for us to discuss. I'm not sure why you're struggling with that. I understand your viewpoint; I just don't think it's relevant. It's like someone stating that 'xyz' is the best OH in D1 and you saying "show me their high school stats or you're wrong". It's just not helpful to the discussion (which I think most of us are on the same page with). What?? Asking for CWC numbers is like asking for HS numbers...? It’s the most recent event in which they participated! Vitra v. Conegliano is a low-level match? An irrelevant point of comparison? What the hell is wrong with you How are you so bad at this
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Post by fanbase on Apr 19, 2020 16:13:14 GMT -5
Can you answer a very simple question for me: What are the breakdowns in the Poland and Italy match for OOS swings by hitter? As I said before, 35 OOS attacks on the match, 16 by Italy, 19 by Poland. Italy: Sorokaite (#1), OH took 7 Sylla (#17), OH took 3 Egonu (#18), OPP took 6 Poland: Stysiak (#9), OH took 7 Medryzk (#16), OH took 5 Smarzek (#17), OPP took 7 Considering both Smarzek and Egonu led their teams in swings, they clearly weren't disproportionately favored OOS. In fact Sorokaite only took 19 swings total, compared to 35 for Egonu, but Sorokaite had the most OOS swings, mostly from the left. Smarzek had 34 swings, compared to 19 for Stysiak but they had the same amount OOS, all from the left. Can you tell me what this means, then we'll move on? How many times when the ball went to Sorokaite was Egonu not available or setting the ball? I can’t really see why would someone set Sorokaite out of system if type of player like Egonu or Smarzek are available
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 16:14:59 GMT -5
Haha, I'm not hiding Hills club stats from you because she hit .600 and terminated 64%. I cba to look them up because even IF she did hit .600, she isn't on the same level as Zhu, KYK or Larson at the Olympic level (I don't think even you would claim she is). That's the reason I posted the World Cup stats. Since you refused to engage with them, there's nothing for us to discuss. I'm not sure why you're struggling with that. I understand your viewpoint; I just don't think it's relevant. It's like someone stating that 'xyz' is the best OH in D1 and you saying "show me their high school stats or you're wrong". It's just not helpful to the discussion (which I think most of us are on the same page with). What?? Asking for CWC numbers is like asking for HS numbers...? It’s the most recent event in which they participated! Vitra v. Conegliano is a low-level match? An irrelevant point of comparison? What the hell is wrong with you How are you so bad at this I didn't say it was a low level. Stop inferring things. I said this is a conversation about the Olympics (look at the title). Did Zhu, Hill and Kyk all play the same teams, across the same time period in the CWC? If they did, go ahead and pull up the numbers for us. If they didn't, it's not an apples to apples comparison.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 16:15:01 GMT -5
Haha, I'm not hiding Hills club stats from you because she hit .600 and terminated 64%. I cba to look them up because even IF she did hit .600, she isn't on the same level as Zhu, KYK or Larson at the Olympic level (I don't think even you would claim she is). That's the reason I posted the World Cup stats. Since you refused to engage with them, there's nothing for us to discuss. I'm not sure why you're struggling with that. I understand your viewpoint; I just don't think it's relevant. It's like someone stating that 'xyz' is the best OH in D1 and you saying "show me their high school stats or you're wrong". It's just not helpful to the discussion (which I think most of us are on the same page with). What?? Asking for CWC numbers is like asking for HS numbers...? It’s the most recent event in which they participated! Vitra v. Conegliano is a low-level match? An irrelevant point of comparison? What the hell is wrong with you How are you so bad at this what cwc stats are you looking for? fivb has some but its not to the level of VM
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 16:18:41 GMT -5
As I said before, 35 OOS attacks on the match, 16 by Italy, 19 by Poland. Italy: Sorokaite (#1), OH took 7 Sylla (#17), OH took 3 Egonu (#18), OPP took 6 Poland: Stysiak (#9), OH took 7 Medryzk (#16), OH took 5 Smarzek (#17), OPP took 7 Considering both Smarzek and Egonu led their teams in swings, they clearly weren't disproportionately favored OOS. In fact Sorokaite only took 19 swings total, compared to 35 for Egonu, but Sorokaite had the most OOS swings, mostly from the left. Smarzek had 34 swings, compared to 19 for Stysiak but they had the same amount OOS, all from the left. Can you tell me what this means, then we'll move on? How many times when the ball went to Sorokaite was Egonu not available or setting the ball? I can’t really see why would someone set Sorokaite out of system if type of player like Egonu or Smarzek are availableErm, I don't have time to go thru the match again right now, but she was available most of the time I definitely wasn't setting. I think the underlined part is the takeaway from this. People remember the crazy OOS rip from Egonu etc but the OHs are more likely to be set. People just don't remember them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 16:19:55 GMT -5
What?? Asking for CWC numbers is like asking for HS numbers...? It’s the most recent event in which they participated! Vitra v. Conegliano is a low-level match? An irrelevant point of comparison? What the hell is wrong with you How are you so bad at this I didn't say it was a low level. Stop inferring things. I said this is a conversation about the Olympics (look at the title). Did Zhu, Hill and Kyk all play the same teams, across the same time period in the CWC? If they did, go ahead and pull up the numbers for us. If they didn't, it's not an apples to apples comparison. Zhu played one (?) match, she was injured. Hill and KYK both played the same teams except for the seminfinals. Imoco played Vakif and Ecz played Novara
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 16:22:05 GMT -5
I didn't say it was a low level. Stop inferring things. I said this is a conversation about the Olympics (look at the title). Did Zhu, Hill and Kyk all play the same teams, across the same time period in the CWC? If they did, go ahead and pull up the numbers for us. If they didn't, it's not an apples to apples comparison. Zhu played one (?) match, she was injured. Hill and KYK both played the same teams except for the seminfinals. Imoco played Vakif and Ecz played Novara If you wanna go down that rabbit hole and take this guy off my hands/nuts I'll owe you one. You can redeem it at any point via DM
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 16:25:04 GMT -5
Zhu played one (?) match, she was injured. Hill and KYK both played the same teams except for the seminfinals. Imoco played Vakif and Ecz played Novara If you wanna go down that rabbit hole and take this guy off my hands/nuts I'll owe you one. You can redeem it at any point via DM I mean im not necessarily disagreeing with shh tbh. based on what I've seen across the italian league, turkish league, continental competitions, I would take Hill over KYK this past season
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 16:26:29 GMT -5
If you wanna go down that rabbit hole and take this guy off my hands/nuts I'll owe you one. You can redeem it at any point via DM I mean im not necessarily disagreeing with shh tbh. based on what I've seen across the italian league, turkish league, continental competitions, I would take Hill over KYK this past season Hah that's cool. I'm not hating on that opinion. But they're like @$$%*!*s. Everyone has one. I posted some data he didn't like and then he started crying that I wouldn't pull her pro stats. So if you want to do that, be my guest.
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Post by Reach on Apr 19, 2020 16:52:38 GMT -5
While the numbers say that 2 OH's get more OoS swings than 1 OP, I think some of the argument comes down to general philosophy. In Europe & Brazil, I think most high level coaches would say that the OP is there to score points - in & out of system - and to shut down an opposing outside hitter. In Asia, the opposite's main job has historically been a ball handling, in-system attacking role. It matters in how players are created. If Egonu had grown up in China I suspect we would be seeing her on the left now, and if Zhu had grown up in Europe she would probably be an OP as a professional. If Lucia Bosetti had grown up in China or Japan I think there is a fair argument that she might be playing OP now. exactly.
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Post by Reach on Apr 19, 2020 16:54:40 GMT -5
When was the last time “libero” appeared in a post in this thread? ALL Liberos suck.. especially if they don't have Zhu or KYK on their team. Make Liberos Great Again... install Zhu Ting today!
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Post by Murina on Apr 19, 2020 17:00:15 GMT -5
Agree with almost all of this, except the numbers don't show the combined OH hit more. They show that one OH either hit more OOS balls (Italy) or the same number (Poland). And those are two of the best Oppos in the game. Again, I'm not saying Oppos can't get set OOS. But to say it's their primary job (even if offenses that feature them) is just wrong. You are arguing numbers, the other person is arguing philosophy behind the numbers. You are both right from each of your perspectives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 17:01:39 GMT -5
I mean im not necessarily disagreeing with shh tbh. based on what I've seen across the italian league, turkish league, continental competitions, I would take Hill over KYK this past season Hah that's cool. I'm not hating on that opinion. But they're like @$$%*!*s. Everyone has one. I posted some data he didn't like and then he started crying that I wouldn't pull her pro stats. So if you want to do that, be my guest. Correction: you only pulled stats that supported your position. You ignored the ones that didn't, as you often do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 17:03:46 GMT -5
I didn't say it was a low level. Stop inferring things. I said this is a conversation about the Olympics (look at the title). Did Zhu, Hill and Kyk all play the same teams, across the same time period in the CWC? If they did, go ahead and pull up the numbers for us. If they didn't, it's not an apples to apples comparison. Zhu played one (?) match, she was injured. Hill and KYK both played the same teams except for the seminfinals. Imoco played Vakif and Ecz played Novara Correct. Zhu shouldn't be part of the conversation. No one is arguing her position at the top. But yes, Hill and KYK both had similar opponents and played each other H2H. Those numbers would be a valid point of comparison, especially since the event was more recent than the World Cup, but they aren't being reported because bwf69 is afraid of losing face as someone with an obscene amount of access.
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