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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 26, 2020 20:19:26 GMT -5
Correct. She was not a good NCAA libero last season. I think she's very, very good, regardless of what her passing numbers were. To be fair, I think she's very, very okay, regardless of what her passing numbers were. I remember seeing her as a sophomore as MN Select 18's libero and thinking she was outstanding for her age. I think she's pretty much just as good as that now. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:24:36 GMT -5
Her passing numbers aren’t just average. They are AWFUL for a libero on a top 25 team.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:26:25 GMT -5
Without actually developing anyone. Our top two options at the position are still two OHs. Hell, Foecke even played libero in a match last summer. A "very good teacher" should probably have something/someone on her resume, I would think. This is so interesting... I don't know Miyashiro at all, and I've never seen her coach. I take it at bwf2's word that she is a good coach. But for those who haven't been in the gym with her, it's very hard to judge this from the outside. I mean, she could be John Wooden and it might not matter because she can't give these liberi a big part of what they need - matches against great players in matches that mean something. She can give them high level matches May-September but she can't give them the matches to prepare for those matches. I'm imagining a business school graduate who gets hired by Amazon. Amazon gives this person to a trainer in Anaheim for 6 months, then makes our recent graduate vice president of a division, maybe in China, Brazil or Russia. It's an awful lot to ask of that trainer! Without actual time in the trenches of Amazon, this grad is being set up to fail - and the trainer with them. So after the grad fails for 6 months they are stripped of the VP title and sent back to Anaheim for another 6 months of training with the trainer and then we try the VP thing again... I feel like if you can't give practical experience, you don't need a trainer - you need a magician! Opportunities exist for American liberos -- they just aren't CL-level opportunities. But do they need to be? Playing libero on a German, French, or Swiss team isn't the same as playing on an Serie A1 team, but it's still a chance to play, get reps, read, lead, etc. And, they actually can give these liberos some matches against great players in matches that mean something, but they aren't. They're putting OHs there instead. Courtney. Robinson. Foecke. Bartsch. Lake's passport issues aside, the National Team needs to do more to ensure athletes in our weakest positions are playing as often as possible. That means scheduling more scrimmages/friendlies and taking advantage of full preliminary roster space for events like the VNL. EDIT: we routinely take 4 middles on 14-player travel rosters. Suit one of them up as the second libero since we won't ever use all four middles in a match anyway and let the second actual libero on the roster sub in once per set as a DS for someone. Do our OHs needs DSs? No, they don't, but take the damn opportunities to develop our weakest position! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:31:07 GMT -5
Her passing numbers aren’t just average. They are AWFUL for a libero on a top 25 team. You try passing next to Alexis Hart or the 2019 version of Adanna Rollins. B1G coaches prepare against these athletes for three months in great detail. Selecting her as a First-Team All-B1G honoree in 2019 counts for something. A poor-passing season does not mean you're a poor libero. |
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Post by n00b on Apr 26, 2020 20:32:39 GMT -5
This is so interesting... I don't know Miyashiro at all, and I've never seen her coach. I take it at bwf2's word that she is a good coach. But for those who haven't been in the gym with her, it's very hard to judge this from the outside. I mean, she could be John Wooden and it might not matter because she can't give these liberi a big part of what they need - matches against great players in matches that mean something. She can give them high level matches May-September but she can't give them the matches to prepare for those matches. I'm imagining a business school graduate who gets hired by Amazon. Amazon gives this person to a trainer in Anaheim for 6 months, then makes our recent graduate vice president of a division, maybe in China, Brazil or Russia. It's an awful lot to ask of that trainer! Without actual time in the trenches of Amazon, this grad is being set up to fail - and the trainer with them. So after the grad fails for 6 months they are stripped of the VP title and sent back to Anaheim for another 6 months of training with the trainer and then we try the VP thing again... I feel like if you can't give practical experience, you don't need a trainer - you need a magician! Opportunities exist for American liberos -- they just aren't CL-level opportunities. But do they need to be? Playing libero on a German, French, or Swiss team isn't the same as playing on an Serie A1 team, but it's still a chance to play, get reps, read, lead, etc. And, they actually can give these liberos some matches against great players in matches that mean something, but they aren't. They're putting OHs there instead. Courtney. Robinson. Foecke. Bartsch. Lake's passport issues aside, the National Team needs to do more to ensure athletes in our weakest positions are playing as often as possible. That means scheduling more scrimmages/friendlies and taking advantage of full preliminary roster space for events like the VNL. In principle, I agree. However, once we got to summer 2019 and the libero position was looking so bad we needed to figure out a solution for Tokyo. I still think that Courtney was our best immediate option to get us to gold in 2020. That equation might change over the next 12 months. And you're absolutely right that we need to be developing REAL liberos. Who played libero for us in 2017? It was Robinson in most of 2018, right? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:32:58 GMT -5
I think she's very, very good, regardless of what her passing numbers were. even though her stats clearly indicate that she wasn’t good? I’m sorry I don’t get how you can disagree with factual data. Probably because I'm able to see the context behind those numbers and I understand that they don't exist in a vacuum. You're still learning that. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:34:49 GMT -5
even though her stats clearly indicate that she wasn’t good? I’m sorry I don’t get how you can disagree with factual data. Probably because I'm able to see the context behind those numbers and I understand that they don't exist in a vacuum. You're still learning that. you called Gregory average even though her numbers were better than or similar to all the liberos you deemed “very good” I just take issue with you bashing on a player with much better stats than a player you are praising. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:38:04 GMT -5
Opportunities exist for American liberos -- they just aren't CL-level opportunities. But do they need to be? Playing libero on a German, French, or Swiss team isn't the same as playing on an Serie A1 team, but it's still a chance to play, get reps, read, lead, etc. And, they actually can give these liberos some matches against great players in matches that mean something, but they aren't. They're putting OHs there instead. Courtney. Robinson. Foecke. Bartsch. Lake's passport issues aside, the National Team needs to do more to ensure athletes in our weakest positions are playing as often as possible. That means scheduling more scrimmages/friendlies and taking advantage of full preliminary roster space for events like the VNL. In principle, I agree. However, once we got to summer 2019 and the libero position was looking so bad we needed to figure out a solution for Tokyo. I still think that Courtney was our best immediate option to get us to gold in 2020. That equation might change over the next 12 months. And you're absolutely right that we need to be developing REAL liberos. Who played libero for us in 2017? It was Robinson in most of 2018, right? I just think the reason that the libero position was looking so bad was because, after splitting her time with Benson/Courtney, they bailed on JWO and gave an entire season's worth of reps to Robinson, an experiment they THEN bailed on the following season. 2017 was mostly JWO and Benson with a little bit of Courtney, IIRC. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:39:42 GMT -5
Probably because I'm able to see the context behind those numbers and I understand that they don't exist in a vacuum. You're still learning that. you called Gregory average even though her numbers were better than or similar to all the liberos you deemed “very good” I just take issue with you bashing on a player with much better stats than a player you are praising. BREAKING: scientists have discovered that it is in fact possible to be a better player than your numbers might suggest. Context. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:41:31 GMT -5
you called Gregory average even though her numbers were better than or similar to all the liberos you deemed “very good” I just take issue with you bashing on a player with much better stats than a player you are praising. BREAKING: scientists have discovered that it is in fact possible to be a better player than your numbers might suggest. Context. it is possible yes but an entire seasons worth of numbers is a pretty good indicator. If I was just talking about one game then sure I could see how that could be skewed but we are talking about an entire seasons worth of games.... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:45:07 GMT -5
BREAKING: scientists have discovered that it is in fact possible to be a better player than your numbers might suggest. Context. it is possible yes but an entire seasons worth of numbers is a pretty good indicator. If I was just talking about one game then sure I could see how that could be skewed but we are talking about an entire seasons worth of games.... I'll repeat: context. It's what exists beyond the black/white numbers on a page. Requires some critical thinking. |
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Post by n00b on Apr 26, 2020 20:46:23 GMT -5
In principle, I agree. However, once we got to summer 2019 and the libero position was looking so bad we needed to figure out a solution for Tokyo. I still think that Courtney was our best immediate option to get us to gold in 2020. That equation might change over the next 12 months. And you're absolutely right that we need to be developing REAL liberos. Who played libero for us in 2017? It was Robinson in most of 2018, right? I just think the reason that the libero position was looking so bad was because, after splitting her time with Benson/Courtney, they bailed on JWO and gave an entire season's worth of reps to Robinson, an experiment they THEN bailed on the following season. 2017 was mostly JWO and Benson with a little bit of Courtney, IIRC. Ah yes. I found it now. I'm not sure how often she played libero, but between the 2017 World Grand Prix and the Grand Champions cup, JWO was only at 46.5% Good Pass. That was worse than Bartsch. Meanwhile, Courtney was at 68%. In retrospect it doesn't seem like a good decision, but I can understand why they bailed on her. Then they actually gave JWO a shot in 2018 as well when the VNL opening weekend was in Nebraska. Poland and Turkey both targeted her, she passed under 50%, and THAT's when we gave up on her for the year. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:51:50 GMT -5
I just think the reason that the libero position was looking so bad was because, after splitting her time with Benson/Courtney, they bailed on JWO and gave an entire season's worth of reps to Robinson, an experiment they THEN bailed on the following season. 2017 was mostly JWO and Benson with a little bit of Courtney, IIRC. Ah yes. I found it now. I'm not sure how often she played libero, but between the 2017 World Grand Prix and the Grand Champions cup, JWO was only at 46.5% Good Pass. That was worse than Bartsch. Meanwhile, Courtney was at 68%. In retrospect it doesn't seem like a good decision, but I can understand why they bailed on her. Then they actually gave JWO a shot in 2018 as well when the VNL opening weekend was in Nebraska. Poland and Turkey both targeted her, she passed under 50%, and THAT's when we gave up on her for the year. how did benson do? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:58:10 GMT -5
In principle, I agree. However, once we got to summer 2019 and the libero position was looking so bad we needed to figure out a solution for Tokyo. I still think that Courtney was our best immediate option to get us to gold in 2020. That equation might change over the next 12 months. And you're absolutely right that we need to be developing REAL liberos. Who played libero for us in 2017? It was Robinson in most of 2018, right? 2017 was mostly JWO and Benson with a little bit of Courtney, IIRC. 2017 World Grand Prix was mostly JWO starting and Benson playing very little. 2017 World Grand Champions Cup was Courtney playing horribly most of the time and JWO riding the bench and playing defense on occasion when the USA was serving. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 21:00:19 GMT -5
Ah yes. I found it now. I'm not sure how often she played libero, but between the 2017 World Grand Prix and the Grand Champions cup, JWO was only at 46.5% Good Pass. That was worse than Bartsch. Meanwhile, Courtney was at 68%. In retrospect it doesn't seem like a good decision, but I can understand why they bailed on her. Then they actually gave JWO a shot in 2018 as well when the VNL opening weekend was in Nebraska. Poland and Turkey both targeted her, she passed under 50%, and THAT's when we gave up on her for the year. how did benson do? She only played in the Pan-Am Cup in 2018. Barely played in 2017 and played in one insignificant tournament in 2019 the NORCECA Champions Cup. Her days are numbered with the NT. With Hentz, Lake and White coming into the team....she likely won't even get a call up. |
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