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Post by n00b on Apr 26, 2020 21:03:38 GMT -5
Ah yes. I found it now. I'm not sure how often she played libero, but between the 2017 World Grand Prix and the Grand Champions cup, JWO was only at 46.5% Good Pass. That was worse than Bartsch. Meanwhile, Courtney was at 68%. In retrospect it doesn't seem like a good decision, but I can understand why they bailed on her. Then they actually gave JWO a shot in 2018 as well when the VNL opening weekend was in Nebraska. Poland and Turkey both targeted her, she passed under 50%, and THAT's when we gave up on her for the year. how did benson do? Only played two matches with the A team. Didn't pass well in those, but it's an extremely small sample. She DID pass decently in the Pan-Am tournaments in 2017 and 2018, but that's much lower competition and the only time she really played consistently. |
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Post by gibbyb1 on Apr 26, 2020 21:06:08 GMT -5
you called Gregory average even though her numbers were better than or similar to all the liberos you deemed “very good” I just take issue with you bashing on a player with much better stats than a player you are praising. BREAKING: scientists have discovered that it is in fact possible to be a better player than your numbers might suggest. Context. I agree. While numbers don’t lie, they do NOT tell the whole story or as you say don’t give context. its. |
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Post by n00b on Apr 26, 2020 21:06:26 GMT -5
2017 was mostly JWO and Benson with a little bit of Courtney, IIRC. 2017 World Grand Prix was mostly JWO starting and Benson playing very little. 2017 World Grand Champions Cup was Courtney playing horribly most of the time and JWO riding the bench and playing defense on occasion when the USA was serving. Courtney was 73% Good Pass for that tournament. That's crazy good. |
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Post by donut on Apr 26, 2020 21:16:27 GMT -5
Probably because I'm able to see the context behind those numbers and I understand that they don't exist in a vacuum. You're still learning that. you called Gregory average even though her numbers were better than or similar to all the liberos you deemed “very good” I just take issue with you bashing on a player with much better stats than a player you are praising. You need to let Gregory go bb  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 21:20:18 GMT -5
you called Gregory average even though her numbers were better than or similar to all the liberos you deemed “very good” I just take issue with you bashing on a player with much better stats than a player you are praising. You need to let Gregory go bb  don’t make me pls lmao |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 21:28:03 GMT -5
2017 World Grand Prix was mostly JWO starting and Benson playing very little. 2017 World Grand Champions Cup was Courtney playing horribly most of the time and JWO riding the bench and playing defense on occasion when the USA was serving. Courtney was 73% Good Pass for that tournament. That's crazy good. Those are good numbers. IMO Courtney, Lloyd, Drews and even Carlini played pretty badly overall during that tournament. Passing isn't the liberos only job. Courtney's defense was abysmal which is why JWO ended up playing when we had the serve. To be fair the whole team looked like it was their first time on the court together and that was with Larson, Hill, Akinradewo and Adams back on the team for the first time that season. I'm not sure taking time off is a good idea especially if you plan to keep your starting spot on a team heading into a new quad. Not sure how I feel about it. In this tournament....we went 5 sets with Russia and Japan, swept Korea and lost 3-1 to China and got swept by Brazil for a bronze medal. Most teams would be grateful for that finish but for the USA, who still hasn't won Olympic gold and has only won one international top event in it's HISTORY, the perfromance of the team this quad has been very erratic. Karch's indecision at the Libero position is why this team is limping into an (extended) Olympic year. Karch lives and dies by his USA "fast" "in-system" offense. We all know this. His belief in his system WILL be the death of this teams competitive edge. Trying to fit athletes into a system instead of playing to everyone's strengths is why Bronze is the new Gold for this team. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 21:34:17 GMT -5
Courtney is a fantastic athlete but I guess I just don't care to convert OH's to Liberos. At all. I don't care how good you pass if you can't play good defense (and all that that entails) too, you shouldn't be a libero. This is why we have a problem at that position. Karch would rather field a passing libero rather than a defensive one. He cares about being in system more because our hitters struggle to kill the ball OOS. This is likely due to his ridiculous need to run a fast offense, even in transition which baffles me sometimes. I mean we have hitters that can hit over the block if the set is high enough. I guess what I think is that there can be a happy medium somewhere in there. If he had just kept JWO and another TRUE libero in the mix this entire quad the team would have likely performed a little worse in the VNL's but that sacrifice could have paid off in the long run. The team would be better at scoring OOS and thus when they are in system, the system would have been more effective. At least that is how I see it. I could be completely wrong here and that is ok. Am I making any sense here?
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Post by gibbyb1 on Apr 26, 2020 22:11:52 GMT -5
Courtney is a fantastic athlete but I guess I just don't care to convert OH's to Liberos. At all. I don't care how good you pass if you can't play good defense (and all that that entails) too, you shouldn't be a libero. This is why we have a problem at that position. Karch would rather field a passing libero rather than a defensive one. He cares about being in system more because our hitters struggle to kill the ball OOS. This is likely due to his ridiculous need to run a fast offense, even in transition which baffles me sometimes. I mean we have hitters that can hit over the block if the set is high enough. I guess what I think is that there can be a happy medium somewhere in there. If he had just kept JWO and another TRUE libero in the mix this entire quad the team would have likely performed a little worse in the VNL's but that sacrifice could have paid off in the long run. The team would be better at scoring OOS and thus when they are in system, the system would have been more effective. At least that is how I see it. I could be completely wrong here and that is ok. Am I making any sense here? I’m not sure how much converting is really needed for a true 6 rotation OH. Say a Larson, Krob, Courtney, who pass and defend as well as they do anything. I guess it would be more mental than physical/technical, they are passing just as much, you’re just doubling their back row rotations. Courtney’s challenges aren’t about a “conversion” |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 22:35:16 GMT -5
Courtney is a fantastic athlete but I guess I just don't care to convert OH's to Liberos. At all. I don't care how good you pass if you can't play good defense (and all that that entails) too, you shouldn't be a libero. This is why we have a problem at that position. Karch would rather field a passing libero rather than a defensive one. He cares about being in system more because our hitters struggle to kill the ball OOS. This is likely due to his ridiculous need to run a fast offense, even in transition which baffles me sometimes. I mean we have hitters that can hit over the block if the set is high enough. I guess what I think is that there can be a happy medium somewhere in there. If he had just kept JWO and another TRUE libero in the mix this entire quad the team would have likely performed a little worse in the VNL's but that sacrifice could have paid off in the long run. The team would be better at scoring OOS and thus when they are in system, the system would have been more effective. At least that is how I see it. I could be completely wrong here and that is ok. Am I making any sense here? I’m not sure how much converting is really needed for a true 6 rotation OH. Say a Larson, Krob, Courtney, who pass and defend as well as they do anything. I guess it would be more mental than physical/technical, they are passing just as much, you’re just doubling their back row rotations. Courtney’s challenges aren’t about a “conversion” No, Megan Courtney has definite limitations in her technique. For instance, she consistently forms her platform too early in defense (it's just a habit, almost all OHs do it). The biggest issue with this is she forms it at her midline and then has to swing it up to the left or right when digging outside her body. It wastes time and reduces her mobility against tips or block touches (try running with your hands together). In addition to what I said above about Tama, issues like this are known by the coaching staff but it's extraordinarily difficult to unlearn once they are in your body & habitual. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 22:40:13 GMT -5
It’s funny to me because like when I think of USA playing I literately can’t even picture her getting a dig. Like obviously she gets them but I can’t remember one. Lmao
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Post by gibbyb1 on Apr 26, 2020 22:50:48 GMT -5
I’m not sure how much converting is really needed for a true 6 rotation OH. Say a Larson, Krob, Courtney, who pass and defend as well as they do anything. I guess it would be more mental than physical/technical, they are passing just as much, you’re just doubling their back row rotations. Courtney’s challenges aren’t about a “conversion” No, Megan Courtney has definite limitations in her technique. For instance, she consistently forms her platform too early in defense (it's just a habit, almost all OHs do it). The biggest issue with this is she forms it at her midline and then has to swing it up to the left or right when digging outside her body. It wastes time and reduces her mobility against tips or block touches (try running with your hands together). In addition to what I said above about Tama, issues like this are known by the coaching staff but it's extraordinarily difficult to unlearn once they are in your body & habitual. No? I didn’t say anything about Courtney’s technical ability or lack thereof, my comment was about converting OH’s to Liberos being more of a mental adjustment than technical. Coaches aren’t teaching two different passing techniques to the two positions. Free advice to not come off as an arrogant jerk. Instead of saying “no, you’re wrong” how about “I disagree, IMO........” in this case your arguing Courtney’s deficiencies are technical when I said it wasn’t about her converting, which means I agree that it’s her ability that doesn’t allow her to play at the elite level as a bro. Despite what you clearly believe you are not THE authority on passing and defense because you have access to data and know some good coaches. |
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Post by n00b on Apr 26, 2020 22:51:50 GMT -5
Courtney is a fantastic athlete but I guess I just don't care to convert OH's to Liberos. At all. I don't care how good you pass if you can't play good defense (and all that that entails) too, you shouldn't be a libero. This is why we have a problem at that position. Karch would rather field a passing libero rather than a defensive one. He cares about being in system more because our hitters struggle to kill the ball OOS. This is likely due to his ridiculous need to run a fast offense, even in transition which baffles me sometimes. I mean we have hitters that can hit over the block if the set is high enough. I guess what I think is that there can be a happy medium somewhere in there. If he had just kept JWO and another TRUE libero in the mix this entire quad the team would have likely performed a little worse in the VNL's but that sacrifice could have paid off in the long run. The team would be better at scoring OOS and thus when they are in system, the system would have been more effective. At least that is how I see it. I could be completely wrong here and that is ok. Am I making any sense here? I’m not sure how much converting is really needed for a true 6 rotation OH. Say a Larson, Krob, Courtney, who pass and defend as well as they do anything. I guess it would be more mental than physical/technical, they are passing just as much, you’re just doubling their back row rotations. Courtney’s challenges aren’t about a “conversion” Right. Larson and Robinson were both better defenders than Banwarth in Rio. |
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Post by rogero1 on Apr 26, 2020 22:55:07 GMT -5
IMHO, the ancient ‘set the high ball & hit over the block’ doesn’t work to bring teams together anymore. It depends on one, possibly two individuals to carry the load for the team. Volleyball is a TEAM sport unlike the major American sports that emphasizes an individual to carry the team. Everyone knows that players are getting bigger, stronger, and quicker than the previous generation. Biggest difference between teams that win championships is mental. If you can keep the team mentally together by buying into a quicker equal opportunity offense, you stand a better chance of winning.
Rally scoring demands that you side out on the first ball (serve receive) with the offense having the advantage over defense. I’ll also take my chances in a transition game with a libero who can serve receive better than picking up tips. If your First Ball Side Out game is working at 60% or better, the transition game only happens less than 40% of the time. Improve your FBSO game as much as possible, then the transition game is less effective. If you want to get into a transition game, then you need to improve your defense to the point where you are digging constantly. This is not college volleyball where hitters tip a lot because they don’t get a set in their comfort zone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 23:43:31 GMT -5
No, Megan Courtney has definite limitations in her technique. For instance, she consistently forms her platform too early in defense (it's just a habit, almost all OHs do it). The biggest issue with this is she forms it at her midline and then has to swing it up to the left or right when digging outside her body. It wastes time and reduces her mobility against tips or block touches (try running with your hands together). In addition to what I said above about Tama, issues like this are known by the coaching staff but it's extraordinarily difficult to unlearn once they are in your body & habitual. No? I didn’t say anything about Courtney’s technical ability or lack thereof, my comment was about converting OH’s to Liberos being more of a mental adjustment than technical. Coaches aren’t teaching two different passing techniques to the two positions. Free advice to not come off as an arrogant jerk. Instead of saying “no, you’re wrong” how about “I disagree, IMO........” in this case your arguing Courtney’s deficiencies are technical when I said it wasn’t about her converting, which means I agree that it’s her ability that doesn’t allow her to play at the elite level as a bro. Despite what you clearly believe you are not THE authority on passing and defense because you have access to data and know some good coaches. I don't wish to argue with you. From your post I was under the impression you thought her problems were mental, not technical. Her issues defensively are the result of technical deficiencies which I can show you, if you like, with either stills or footage if you have access to the game film. I'm always happy to provide evidence if you want it. If you think that her defensive limitations are a technical issue, then we agree. I'm still happy to discuss said limitations if you're interested, it's fine if you're not. As to the other stuff, I'm still not interested in how I 'come off'. I'm just here for the volley and I think accurate statements are more helpful than inaccurate ones. The cliques and awards around here, I can do without. |
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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 27, 2020 0:29:32 GMT -5
No, Megan Courtney has definite limitations in her technique. It’s not her fault her arms were screwed on backwards.  |
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don’t make me pls lmao
