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Post by bbg95 on May 22, 2024 21:59:37 GMT -5
I didn't watch the finale live because I didn't want to sit through like an hour of commercials with Q and Venus gone. I looked up the results, though. Kenzie winning is one thing. Beating Charlie at Final Tribal Council is very surprising, though. I'll watch it when I'm doing cardio in the next day or two. At first blush, I think this really lowers my estimation of the season. Still better than 45 but probably behind the others in the new era. But I'll see how I feel after watching.
Edit: my sister said she loved the finale, despite being a Charlie fan. But she mostly cited Q and Venus for that, lol.
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Post by storyteller on May 23, 2024 0:44:48 GMT -5
I didn't watch the finale live because I didn't want to sit through like an hour of commercials with Q and Venus gone. I looked up the results, though. Kenzie winning is one thing. Beating Charlie at Final Tribal Council is very surprising, though. I'll watch it when I'm doing cardio in the next day or two. At first blush, I think this really lowers my estimation of the season. Still better than 45 but probably behind the others in the new era. But I'll see how I feel after watching. Edit: my sister said she loved the finale, despite being a Charlie fan. But she mostly cited Q and Venus for that, lol. The finale was more fun than I was expecting. Not so much the final 5 vote—I'd skip through that tbh and the way the challenge was won was annoying. But the DELUSION at the final 4 and the reactions from Venus and Q were great.
This was one of the better FTC in recent memory. I think Kenzie had better answers than Charlie. She had a really good answer imho about being dragged into votes versus having agency, and you could tell the jury loved her. She also had more friendly faces on the jury. Tiff was doing whatever she could to help while Charlie's #1 didn't even plan on voting for him.
The immediate reunion still sucks. Charlie was devastated, and I don't love how Jeff leans into that like "Charlie, I saw you despair, please elaborate." He gave amazing answers in that reunion, but he shouldn’t have been put in that position. At least he got to come back to 1989 TV and now TTPD—a lot of new sad Taylor Swift songs for him to listen to.
Overall, I'm okay with Kenzie winning because I understand why people voted for her and I think it's deserved. But aside from a few episodes, mostly thanks to Q, I can't say I really liked this season.
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Post by bbg95 on May 23, 2024 9:28:45 GMT -5
I didn't watch the finale live because I didn't want to sit through like an hour of commercials with Q and Venus gone. I looked up the results, though. Kenzie winning is one thing. Beating Charlie at Final Tribal Council is very surprising, though. I'll watch it when I'm doing cardio in the next day or two. At first blush, I think this really lowers my estimation of the season. Still better than 45 but probably behind the others in the new era. But I'll see how I feel after watching. Edit: my sister said she loved the finale, despite being a Charlie fan. But she mostly cited Q and Venus for that, lol. The finale was more fun than I was expecting. Not so much the final 5 vote—I'd skip through that tbh and the way the challenge was won was annoying. But the DELUSION at the final 4 and the reactions from Venus and Q were great.
This was one of the better FTC in recent memory. I think Kenzie had better answers than Charlie. She had a really good answer imho about being dragged into votes versus having agency, and you could tell the jury loved her. She also had more friendly faces on the jury. Tiff was doing whatever she could to help while Charlie's #1 didn't even plan on voting for him.
The immediate reunion still sucks. Charlie was devastated, and I don't love how Jeff leans into that like "Charlie, I saw you despair, please elaborate." He gave amazing answers in that reunion, but he shouldn’t have been put in that position. At least he got to come back to 1989 TV and now TTPD—a lot of new sad Taylor Swift songs for him to listen to.
Overall, I'm okay with Kenzie winning because I understand why people voted for her and I think it's deserved. But aside from a few episodes, mostly thanks to Q, I can't say I really liked this season. Thanks for the breakdown. Now that I've processed the shock of Kenzie beating Charlie, I'm looking forward to watching it today. Kenzie probably has the weakest resume of any winner since at least Fabio and maybe since Bob (the worst winner in Survivor history). But that's not to say she shouldn't have won. If Charlie couldn't convince the jury to vote for him (including his own No. 1 in Maria, which is particularly damning), then he didn't deserve to win. That's just Survivor 101. It's too bad. He had done such a good job of managing his threat level that I was seriously contemplating whether he was the best player of the new era. But you can't be that if you don't win. It's like the 2007 Patriots or 2016 Warriors. An all-time winning record means nothing without the ring. So Erika remains the best player of the new era for at least another season, which is fine by me. She played an excellent (and underrated) game.
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Post by storyteller on May 23, 2024 10:48:28 GMT -5
The finale was more fun than I was expecting. Not so much the final 5 vote—I'd skip through that tbh and the way the challenge was won was annoying. But the DELUSION at the final 4 and the reactions from Venus and Q were great.
This was one of the better FTC in recent memory. I think Kenzie had better answers than Charlie. She had a really good answer imho about being dragged into votes versus having agency, and you could tell the jury loved her. She also had more friendly faces on the jury. Tiff was doing whatever she could to help while Charlie's #1 didn't even plan on voting for him.
The immediate reunion still sucks. Charlie was devastated, and I don't love how Jeff leans into that like "Charlie, I saw you despair, please elaborate." He gave amazing answers in that reunion, but he shouldn’t have been put in that position. At least he got to come back to 1989 TV and now TTPD—a lot of new sad Taylor Swift songs for him to listen to.
Overall, I'm okay with Kenzie winning because I understand why people voted for her and I think it's deserved. But aside from a few episodes, mostly thanks to Q, I can't say I really liked this season. Thanks for the breakdown. Now that I've processed the shock of Kenzie beating Charlie, I'm looking forward to watching it today. Kenzie probably has the weakest resume of any winner since at least Fabio and maybe since Bob (the worst winner in Survivor history). But that's not to say she shouldn't have won. If Charlie couldn't convince the jury to vote for him (including his own No. 1 in Maria, which is particularly damning), then he didn't deserve to win. That's just Survivor 101. It's too bad. He had done such a good job of managing his threat level that I was seriously contemplating whether he was the best player of the new era. But you can't be that if you don't win. It's like the 2007 Patriots or 2016 Warriors. An all-time winning record means nothing without the ring. So Erika remains the best player of the new era for at least another season, which is fine by me. She played an excellent (and underrated) game. I'm interested to hear your thoughts when you watch. I think Charlie was always going to have a tougher time with the jury. He didn't do bad in FTC by any means—actually he explained his game very clearly—just Kenzie had their hearts and for this jury that's what you needed. And I don't think Maria was ever going to vote for him. She didn't leave the finale with a lot of fans.
I agree that Erica is the best winner of the new era, and I think it's a shame they didn't edit her game to show that.
Also, some Twitter fun. Venus is feuding with the Empire State Building, and apparently Liz isn't a millionaire and was going to use that as a FTC surprise if she made it there.
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Post by bbg95 on May 23, 2024 20:18:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the breakdown. Now that I've processed the shock of Kenzie beating Charlie, I'm looking forward to watching it today. Kenzie probably has the weakest resume of any winner since at least Fabio and maybe since Bob (the worst winner in Survivor history). But that's not to say she shouldn't have won. If Charlie couldn't convince the jury to vote for him (including his own No. 1 in Maria, which is particularly damning), then he didn't deserve to win. That's just Survivor 101. It's too bad. He had done such a good job of managing his threat level that I was seriously contemplating whether he was the best player of the new era. But you can't be that if you don't win. It's like the 2007 Patriots or 2016 Warriors. An all-time winning record means nothing without the ring. So Erika remains the best player of the new era for at least another season, which is fine by me. She played an excellent (and underrated) game. I'm interested to hear your thoughts when you watch. I think Charlie was always going to have a tougher time with the jury. He didn't do bad in FTC by any means—actually he explained his game very clearly—just Kenzie had their hearts and for this jury that's what you needed. And I don't think Maria was ever going to vote for him. She didn't leave the finale with a lot of fans.
I agree that Erica is the best winner of the new era, and I think it's a shame they didn't edit her game to show that.
Also, some Twitter fun. Venus is feuding with the Empire State Building, and apparently Liz isn't a millionaire and was going to use that as a FTC surprise if she made it there. Okay, I watched it. My main takeaway is that this is among the most fascinating Final Tribal Council results in Survivor history. I thought Kenzie must have been great while Charlie bombed, but she was worse than I expected, and he was better than I expected. She might have narrowly edged him out there, but his overall game was much stronger. I think at least 90% of juries would have voted for Charlie, and he may have won close to unanimously in some seasons. But none of that matters because his job as the finalist is to figure out what his particular jurors value and do and say what he needs to so that they vote for him. To be fair to Charlie, I can't think of another winner who won in large part because of what they would use the money for. Knowing Q's background, it makes some sense, but I still didn't think that would be what he'd base his entire decision on. And he's a very persuasive person. I think Charlie or Maria would have been a more satisfying winner from a conventional standpoint. Q or Venus would have been a more entertaining winner. Q winning in particular would probably elevate this to a top 10 season for me. But I have no issue with Kenzie winning. She got to the end and got the votes. My single favorite thing about Survivor is the jury and how each one is made up of different people who value different things. This has produced so many different types of winning (and losing) games over the years, and I think a player like Kenzie beating a player like Charlie illustrates the beauty of Survivor. This result also gives further credence to my belief that Eddie 100% would have beaten Dawn and Sherri if he made it to the end instead of Cochran. As for the after show, while there is something off-putting about having shellshocked finalists who just lost a million dollars answer questions about it (the worst examples were probably Deshawn and Xander in 41, since it was a surprise, and they got asked some jury questions that were arguably over the line), one thing I like is that I think the jurors tend to be more honest about their votes than they sometimes are when it's six months later, and they've watched the edit. I've always thought these after-the-fact claims had questionable reliability, but when they literally just voted a few minutes earlier, it seems more accurate. In this case, five jurors said they changed their votes at Final Tribal Council, and the changes went in both directions. Again, very fascinating. Other thoughts on the finale and after show: -I didn't like that Liz was allowed to help Kenzie in the immunity challenge by physically retrieving her board. In other seasons, players have been able to share information, but I don't remember them being allowed to physically help. See Jeff shutting down Sophie demanding that Albert help her. -Liz delusionaly proclaiming that she would have won was hilarious. It reminded me of Alicia making similar claims in One World. -I enjoyed the final immunity challenge. They've done a variant of that before, I think maybe in Millennials v. Gen X. -I was very impressed with how gracious Charlie was toward the result. He didn't go Parvati or Aubry or Gavin and act like the jury got it wrong. -I wasn't high on Kenzie for most of the season, but she seems like an admirable person who has had to work hard her entire life. Her situation at her salon where it sounds like she only makes money off her own clients is similar to my sister's best friend, who apparently did something very similar with her salon. When my sister explained this, I suddenly understood why she flipped her rooting interest after supporting Charlie most of the season. -The discussion of all the people who got blindsided with idols in their pocket was very amusing. -The montage of memorable phrases from Survivor past was amusing, though Tarzan being among those legends is like Laettner on the Dream Team. -Jelinsky got shouted out again by Jeff during the after show--if both he and Q aren't on 50, production has failed.
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Post by shootset on May 23, 2024 20:22:51 GMT -5
The written statement that Charlie released today was perfect. Well worded, in my opinion. For Maria to text him weeks after the finale and say she should have voted for Charlie and then to later tell him face to face that she has no regrets… wow. Charlie was correct in calling it flip flopping.
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Post by storyteller on May 23, 2024 21:27:54 GMT -5
I'm interested to hear your thoughts when you watch. I think Charlie was always going to have a tougher time with the jury. He didn't do bad in FTC by any means—actually he explained his game very clearly—just Kenzie had their hearts and for this jury that's what you needed. And I don't think Maria was ever going to vote for him. She didn't leave the finale with a lot of fans.
I agree that Erica is the best winner of the new era, and I think it's a shame they didn't edit her game to show that.
Also, some Twitter fun. Venus is feuding with the Empire State Building, and apparently Liz isn't a millionaire and was going to use that as a FTC surprise if she made it there. Okay, I watched it. My main takeaway is that this is among the most fascinating Final Tribal Council results in Survivor history. I thought Kenzie must have been great while Charlie bombed, but she was worse than I expected, and he was better than I expected. She might have narrowly edged him out there, but his overall game was much stronger. I think at least 90% of juries would have voted for Charlie, and he may have won close to unanimously in some seasons. But none of that matters because his job as the finalist is to figure out what his particular jurors value and do and say what he needs to so that they vote for him. To be fair to Charlie, I can't think of another winner who won in large part because of what they would use the money for. Knowing Q's background, it makes some sense, but I still didn't think that would be what he'd base his entire decision on. And he's a very persuasive person. I think Charlie or Maria would have been a more satisfying winner from a conventional standpoint. Q or Venus would have been a more entertaining winner. Q winning in particular would probably elevate this to a top 10 season for me. But I have no issue with Kenzie winning. She got to the end and got the votes. My single favorite thing about Survivor is the jury and how each one is made up of different people who value different things. This has produced so many different types of winning (and losing) games over the years, and I think a player like Kenzie beating a player like Charlie illustrates the beauty of Survivor. This result also gives further credence to my belief that Eddie 100% would have beaten Dawn and Sherri if he made it to the end instead of Cochran. As for the after show, while there is something off-putting about having shellshocked finalists who just lost a million dollars answer questions about it (the worst examples were probably Deshawn and Xander in 41, since it was a surprise, and they got asked some jury questions that were arguably over the line), one thing I like is that I think the jurors tend to be more honest about their votes than they sometimes are when it's six months later, and they've watched the edit. I've always thought these after-the-fact claims had questionable reliability, but when they literally just voted a few minutes earlier, it seems more accurate. In this case, five jurors said they changed their votes at Final Tribal Council, and the changes went in both directions. Again, very fascinating. Other thoughts on the finale and after show: -I didn't like that Liz was allowed to help Kenzie in the immunity challenge by physically retrieving her board. In other seasons, players have been able to share information, but I don't remember them being allowed to physically help. See Jeff shutting down Sophie demanding that Albert help her. -Liz delusionaly proclaiming that she would have won was hilarious. It reminded me of Alicia making similar claims in One World. -I enjoyed the final immunity challenge. They've done a variant of that before, I think maybe in Millennials v. Gen X. -I was very impressed with how gracious Charlie was toward the result. He didn't go Parvati or Aubry or Gavin and act like the jury got it wrong. -I wasn't high on Kenzie for most of the season, but she seems like an admirable person who has had to work hard her entire life. Her situation at her salon where it sounds like she only makes money off her own clients is similar to my sister's best friend, who apparently did something very similar with her salon. When my sister explained this, I suddenly understood why she flipped her rooting interest after supporting Charlie most of the season. -The discussion of all the people who got blindsided with idols in their pocket was very amusing. -The montage of memorable phrases from Survivor past was amusing, though Tarzan being among those legends is like Laettner on the Dream Team. -Jelinsky got shouted out again by Jeff during the after show--if both he and Q aren't on 50, production has failed. I hated that Liz helped Kenzie with the challenge! I think it's against the spirit of the game, so I hope it doesn't become a thing.
The FTC is interesting because I can't think of anything Charlie could've done differently, but it was clear to me he didn't have the jury. (Actually, clear from the jury's reactions at firemaking.) I honestly expected Kenzie to win by more because of that. I feel a little vindicated with the Kenzie win, because I called it at the merge and then after that felt like I had misjudged it so bad. But I was right!
A Q win would've been so good, especially with a Q, Venus, Liz FTC. There would've been so much arguing and delusion!
Also, the camera work and sound editing was so good in this episode. The intro and outro to the Final 4 immunity especially and also the flint sound heading in the Final 4 firemaking. The production crew for Survivor consistently delivers.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on May 24, 2024 8:57:37 GMT -5
Not a fan of FTC.
I thought the questions the jury asked were very good, until Q. If the final survivor vote is going to be about who could best make use of $1m or how much (less) money a player has, then the game no longer works for me. The fact that Kenzie won because of this very question makes here easily the worst Survivor winner of all-time in my books.
I thought Probst asked good questions after the vote - and particularly with Charlie's reactions on Maria's vote. It was also good to see who voted for who and why. And really liked, who changed their vote from FTC. But the one question he didn't asked that needed to be asked - if there was a tie, who would Ben have given the vote to make the winner? From brief comments made by Charlie, it sounds like Ben would have voted for Charlie? It would have been worth knowing.
Absolutely shocking that Maria voted for Kenzie and Liz voted for Charlie.
I so much wanted Liz in the final 3 - only because I didn't believe that she would win despite she thinking she was the best player (which seemed rather delusional to me). And Maria's reasoning for voting for Kenzie makes absolutely no sense to me - she really becomes the big loser in the final.
Also - a big part of this is editing. They didn't show Liz or Maria's questions to the finalists. What did they leave out - it sounds like Charlie made up a lot of ground with the jury in explaining his social and strategic play, but lost it all because the totally ridicules question from Q. Q has to be on a list of worst survivor players to play...
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Post by bbg95 on May 24, 2024 9:44:28 GMT -5
Not a fan of FTC. I thought the questions the jury asked were very good, until Q. If the final survivor vote is going to be about who could best make use of $1m or how much (less) money a player has, then the game no longer works for me. The fact that Kenzie won because of this very question makes here easily the worst Survivor winner of all-time in my books. I thought Probst asked good questions after the vote - and particularly with Charlie's reactions on Maria's vote. It was also good to see who voted for who and why. And really liked, who changed their vote from FTC. But the one question he didn't asked that needed to be asked - if there was a tie, who would Ben have given the vote to make the winner? From brief comments made by Charlie, it sounds like Ben would have voted for Charlie? It would have been worth knowing. Absolutely shocking that Maria voted for Kenzie and Liz voted for Charlie. I so much wanted Liz in the final 3 - only because I didn't believe that she would win despite she thinking she was the best player (which seemed rather delusional to me). And Maria's reasoning for voting for Kenzie makes absolutely no sense to me - she really becomes the big loser in the final. Also - a big part of this is editing. They didn't show Liz or Maria's questions to the finalists. What did they leave out - it sounds like Charlie made up a lot of ground with the jury in explaining his social and strategic play, but lost it all because the totally ridicules question from Q. Q has to be on a list of worst survivor players to play... But that's the entire point of Survivor. The jury decides who wins based on whatever criteria they want. And Q is only one juror. Ben has said in his exit press that he would break the tie in Charlie's favor (apparently, their relationship was much stronger than what was shown in the edit). So all Charlie had to do was convince one of Tiffany, Tevin, Venus or Maria to vote for him. He couldn't even get his No. 1 ally to do so. He didn't understand his jury well enough. If he realized that Kenzie was a bigger threat, he could have persuaded Ben to throw him into the fire against Kenzie and eliminate her there. As for Kenzie, while I certainly don't think she's a strong winner, I wouldn't say she's the worst winner, much less easily the worst winner. Off the top of my head, Bob and Amber are the two worst winners. I'd also rank Kenzie above the winners with terrible social games that only won because their opponents were even less popular than they were. So that's Rob, Sophie, Tyson, Brian and Vecepia. And then there are the illegitimate winners that only won because of late-game production interference. Those would ben Ben, Parvati and most likely Yul (it's a little less certain in his case, but still). Anyway, while the result of this vote and the reasoning for it is surprising, I think it's most likely a one-off. Dreamz was basically homeless, while Earl was a successful businessman. Earl won unanimously, and Dreamz got ranked over the coals at Final Tribal Council. Or take Dawn and Cochran. He was a Harvard law school grad who clearly didn't need the money as much as she did (she has like six adopted kids). But he won unanimously while she got torched. I think this is the only time in Survivor history where someone won in large part due to how they would use the money. I doubt this will become the norm.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on May 24, 2024 10:08:26 GMT -5
Not a fan of FTC. I thought the questions the jury asked were very good, until Q. If the final survivor vote is going to be about who could best make use of $1m or how much (less) money a player has, then the game no longer works for me. The fact that Kenzie won because of this very question makes here easily the worst Survivor winner of all-time in my books. I thought Probst asked good questions after the vote - and particularly with Charlie's reactions on Maria's vote. It was also good to see who voted for who and why. And really liked, who changed their vote from FTC. But the one question he didn't asked that needed to be asked - if there was a tie, who would Ben have given the vote to make the winner? From brief comments made by Charlie, it sounds like Ben would have voted for Charlie? It would have been worth knowing. Absolutely shocking that Maria voted for Kenzie and Liz voted for Charlie. I so much wanted Liz in the final 3 - only because I didn't believe that she would win despite she thinking she was the best player (which seemed rather delusional to me). And Maria's reasoning for voting for Kenzie makes absolutely no sense to me - she really becomes the big loser in the final. Also - a big part of this is editing. They didn't show Liz or Maria's questions to the finalists. What did they leave out - it sounds like Charlie made up a lot of ground with the jury in explaining his social and strategic play, but lost it all because the totally ridicules question from Q. Q has to be on a list of worst survivor players to play... But that's the entire point of Survivor. The jury decides who wins based on whatever criteria they want. And Q is only one juror. Ben has said in his exit press that he would break the tie in Charlie's favor (apparently, their relationship was much stronger than what was shown in the edit). So all Charlie had to do was convince one of Tiffany, Tevin, Venus or Maria to vote for him. He couldn't even get his No. 1 ally to do so. He didn't understand his jury well enough. If he realized that Kenzie was a bigger threat, he could have persuaded Ben to throw him into the fire against Kenzie and eliminate her there. As for Kenzie, while I certainly don't think she's a strong winner, I wouldn't say she's the worst winner, much less easily the worst winner. Off the top of my head, Bob and Amber are the two worst winners. I'd also rank Kenzie above the winners with terrible social games that only won because their opponents were even less popular than they were. So that's Rob, Sophie, Tyson, Brian and Vecepia. And then there are the illegitimate winners that only won because of late-game production interference. Those would ben Ben, Parvati and most likely Yul (it's a little less certain in his case, but still). Anyway, while the result of this vote and the reasoning for it is surprising, I think it's most likely a one-off. Dreamz was basically homeless, while Earl was a successful businessman. Earl won unanimously, and Dreamz got ranked over the coals at Final Tribal Council. Or take Dawn and Cochran. He was a Harvard law school grad who clearly didn't need the money as much as she did (she has like six adopted kids). But he won unanimously while she got torched. I think this is the only time in Survivor history where someone won in large part due to how they would use the money. I doubt this will become the norm. Whether it becomes the norm or not - it doesn't make doing it here acceptable. This is like only voting for a person because of their race, gender, or age - I don't like it. These are things outside the play of the game that a person has absolutely no control over.
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Post by bbg95 on May 24, 2024 10:32:53 GMT -5
Charlie clearly had some issues with his jury management. He wasn't as bad as someone like Russell, but he clearly didn't do enough to convince at least one more juror to vote for him. And he failed to realize how popular Kenzie was with the jury. This is another example of how dangerous it is to let someone the jury loves get to the end of the game. I looked into Maria's exit press. She admitted that Q's question did sway her to vote for Kenzie, which makes more sense than her original explanation about the fire. And as classy as Charlie was at the after show, he's not exactly covering himself in glory right now. He's making a lot of passive aggressive comments about how he has "no ill will" toward Maria, but he doesn't need to be friends with her. Like, bro. You are clearly bitter. I don't even blame him, as it cost him a million dollars (though, again, there were other jurors whose votes he also lost). But just own it.
It's more than a little ironic to me that Charlie complains about Maria's reasoning for her vote shifting, but his response to that vote has also been all over the place. He can choose to be classy, or he can choose to be bitter (or just say nothing). Right now, he's trying to do both, and I'm not buying it.
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Post by bbg95 on May 24, 2024 10:55:03 GMT -5
It's time to update my Survivor season rankings with 46 now in the books:
Tier 1 1. Winners at War 2. Pearl Islands 3. Cagayan 4. Heroes v. Villains Tier 2 5. David v. Goliath 6. Cambodia 7. China 8. Tocantins Tier 3 9. Philippines 10. Kaoh Rong 11. Blood v. Water 12. Millennials v. Gen X 13. Panama 14. Samoa 15. Nicaragua 16. Edge of Extinction Tier 3.5 17. Vanuatu 18. Amazon 19. Survivor 43 20. Survivor 44 21. Survivor 41 22. Survivor 46 23. Australia 24. Survivor 42 25. Borneo 26. Africa 27. Game Changers Tier 4 28. Cook Islands 29. Micronesia 30. San Juan del Sur 31. Ghost Island 32. Survivor 45 33. HHH 34. Worlds Apart 35. Fiji 36. Island of the Idols 37. Caramoan 38. Guatemala Tier 5 39. South Pacific 40. Gabon 41. Palau 42. One World 43. All Stars 44. Thailand 45. Marquesas 46. Redemption Island
A Q win would have made this a top 10 season, but alas. As it stands, I put 46 among the other new era seasons, with the exception of 45, which is a mediocre season. So good but not great. The Bhanu episodes and an underwhelming winner knock it down a bit for me. Other changes I made from the last update is that I've moved 41 up several spots. My sister loves that season, and I do think it's underrated at this point. I also moved Game Changers up a couple spots above Cook Islands and into Tier 3.5. I need to rewatch Game Changers and 41 to be sure, but I've felt for a while that I had them a little low.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on May 24, 2024 12:09:36 GMT -5
Charlie clearly had some issues with his jury management. He wasn't as bad as someone like Russell, but he clearly didn't do enough to convince at least one more juror to vote for him. And he failed to realize how popular Kenzie was with the jury. This is another example of how dangerous it is to let someone the jury loves get to the end of the game. I looked into Maria's exit press. She admitted that Q's question did sway her to vote for Kenzie, which makes more sense than her original explanation about the fire. And as classy as Charlie was at the after show, he's not exactly covering himself in glory right now. He's making a lot of passive aggressive comments about how he has "no ill will" toward Maria, but he doesn't need to be friends with her. Like, bro. You are clearly bitter. I don't even blame him, as it cost him a million dollars (though, again, there were other jurors whose votes he also lost). But just own it. It's more than a little ironic to me that Charlie complains about Maria's reasoning for her vote shifting, but his response to that vote has also been all over the place. He can choose to be classy, or he can choose to be bitter (or just say nothing). Right now, he's trying to do both, and I'm not buying it. He says that Maria texted him a couple weeks after the season and told him that she made a mistake and should have voted for him. She then later has said that she made the right decision. Charlie has just called her a 'flipper' in her comments. If - Charlie misplayed his relationship with Maria and lost her vote because of this - then that is on Charlie. If Maria thought Charlie outplayed Kenzie, but was swayed by Q's final question - then that is total BS. I suspect there may be some issues with Charlie and Maria that go beyond this vote and it really wasn't about that last question.
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Post by bbg95 on May 24, 2024 12:23:31 GMT -5
Charlie clearly had some issues with his jury management. He wasn't as bad as someone like Russell, but he clearly didn't do enough to convince at least one more juror to vote for him. And he failed to realize how popular Kenzie was with the jury. This is another example of how dangerous it is to let someone the jury loves get to the end of the game. I looked into Maria's exit press. She admitted that Q's question did sway her to vote for Kenzie, which makes more sense than her original explanation about the fire. And as classy as Charlie was at the after show, he's not exactly covering himself in glory right now. He's making a lot of passive aggressive comments about how he has "no ill will" toward Maria, but he doesn't need to be friends with her. Like, bro. You are clearly bitter. I don't even blame him, as it cost him a million dollars (though, again, there were other jurors whose votes he also lost). But just own it. It's more than a little ironic to me that Charlie complains about Maria's reasoning for her vote shifting, but his response to that vote has also been all over the place. He can choose to be classy, or he can choose to be bitter (or just say nothing). Right now, he's trying to do both, and I'm not buying it. He says that Maria texted him a couple weeks after the season and told him that she made a mistake and should have voted for him. She then later has said that she made the right decision. Charlie has just called her a 'flipper' in her comments. If - Charlie misplayed his relationship with Maria and lost her vote because of this - then that is on Charlie. If Maria thought Charlie outplayed Kenzie, but was swayed by Q's final question - then that is total BS. I suspect there may be some issues with Charlie and Maria that go beyond this vote and it really wasn't about that last question. I'm fine with Charlie being bitter. It's the passive aggressiveness that I don't respect. I agree that there is probably more to it than just Q's question. As for Charlie misplaying his relationship with Maria, I think that is possible. One thing I noticed at the final five tribal council is that Kenzie was very complimentary toward Maria in a way that didn't feel fake like it does 90% of the time that other players do it. Meanwhile, Charlie's comments felt rather perfunctory. I also thought Charlie had a hint of arrogance at Final Tribal Council that may have been a bit off-putting to some jurors. His comments made it seem like he had outplayed the rest of the cast because he was smarter than them. And that was kind of true, but it isn't the best way to endear yourself to many jurors. It is interesting that Maria voted for someone despite losing the challenge in part because that player was aided by Liz straight-up cheating and Jeff being derelict in his duty (I actually have a bigger problem with Liz cheating than anything else that happened in the finale). I suspect that Kenzie's social game was even better than what we saw in the edit, which is how she won with virtually no resume. Social winners have been notoriously hard to edit well.
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Post by storyteller on May 24, 2024 19:25:11 GMT -5
Why is Micronesia so low for you?
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