Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 18:55:09 GMT -5
So any time a player complains to administrators that coach was mean, it should be publicized? I'm willing to bet that there is another side to this story. Athletes- if they want to make things happen- know exactly how to do so. They know what to say, terms to use and how media and social media loves to take people down. Not saying that is the case here, because I honestly have no clue. However, to not consider this as a possibility is a mistake. I know of a lot of college coaches who have been railroaded and witch-hunted out of a program by a few vindictive athletes. I'm not sure how many administrations are willing to go to bat for a volleyball coach, to be honest. The EASY play here is to fire the coach and deal with the buyout. I would be willing to guess that their investigation uncovered some inconsistencies in these stories. Otherwise, why risk the liability? And for every coach railroaded, there are others who get away with it as an administration turns its back. Just as many get found out, "resign" and then go coach somewhere else to repeat what they've done, resign again, and get hired again because of their proven experience.
|
|
|
Post by Riviera Minestrone on Jul 31, 2020 18:56:14 GMT -5
To me this says all that I implied earlier ("Wikipedia-Google keyboard warrior"), along with all I ever needed to know; thankfully, (s)he is nowhere near my real life; for someone to have such the absence of any moral foundation, or human empathy...? I don’t understand the opposition to research. Although this isn’t really research. What’s the line for you that becomes abuse? Dude: accepted ethicality... research any Great Book (Bible, Quran, Torah)...means using one's brain, heart, and soul to deduce right-from-wrong w/ common sense; as some of my elders told me, "common sense isn't so common". You're proof positive!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 19:03:09 GMT -5
You're missing the point. The simple fact that he felt the need to say that (if indeed that's what he said, and I'm sure they can get more witnesses if necessary to corroborate) shows that he felt his behavior could be construed as abusive and he didn't want there to be any kind of oversight. That is the complete antithesis of what we're told to do and is TOTALLY unacceptable. Could be. But now this is applying motives based on the oppositions story. I’m absolutely with you that there are ways that conversation could’ve gone down that warrant him getting fired immediately. But we’ll never get context and the other side of the story. You're now moving the goalposts. You initially said that nothing in the article was abuse, in your opinion. Now you're saying that the blatant abuse (of power) described in the article requires corroboration. That is true and any coach who DIDN'T utter the sentence in question should welcome such an investigation. But to say that you read the article and that nothing struck you as inappropriate indicates that you don't understand the protocol coaches are required to follow.
|
|
|
Post by Brutus Buckeye on Jul 31, 2020 19:05:47 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Riviera Minestrone on Jul 31, 2020 19:10:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Jul 31, 2020 19:25:31 GMT -5
Could be. But now this is applying motives based on the oppositions story. I’m absolutely with you that there are ways that conversation could’ve gone down that warrant him getting fired immediately. But we’ll never get context and the other side of the story. You're now moving the goalposts. You initially said that nothing in the article was abuse, in your opinion. Now you're saying that the blatant abuse (of power) described in the article requires corroboration. That is true and any coach who DIDN'T utter the sentence in question should welcome such an investigation. But to say that you read the article and that nothing struck you as inappropriate indicates that you don't understand the protocol coaches are required to follow. I specifically said ‘abuse’. There are many things in that article that I think are inappropriate and I would very much warn my club athletes about if they were getting recruited by OSU. Maybe warn isn’t the right word. But to address with both the coach and players and be sure they’re comfortable with the responses. And you’re right. I probably could’ve had more nuance in that first post. Given that this is the one side of the story that paints him in the worst possible light and that OSU even responded and said they looked into it and handled it, to me it’s unlikely abusive behavior occurred. Plus, as mentioned by somebody else, OSU is a bad volleyball program. There’s no reason to cover this stuff up. Firing an abusive coach is very positive PR. BUT, if they try to fire for cause when it isn’t really there, you have a lawsuit on your hands. Al of that (to me) points to the preponderance of evidence being that Barnard can be a dick, but isn’t abusive.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 19:47:10 GMT -5
You're now moving the goalposts. You initially said that nothing in the article was abuse, in your opinion. Now you're saying that the blatant abuse (of power) described in the article requires corroboration. That is true and any coach who DIDN'T utter the sentence in question should welcome such an investigation. But to say that you read the article and that nothing struck you as inappropriate indicates that you don't understand the protocol coaches are required to follow. I specifically said ‘abuse’. There are many things in that article that I think are inappropriate and I would very much warn my club athletes about if they were getting recruited by OSU. Maybe warn isn’t the right word. But to address with both the coach and players and be sure they’re comfortable with the responses. And you’re right. I probably could’ve had more nuance in that first post. Given that this is the one side of the story that paints him in the worst possible light and that OSU even responded and said they looked into it and handled it, to me it’s unlikely abusive behavior occurred. Plus, as mentioned by somebody else, OSU is a bad volleyball program. There’s no reason to cover this stuff up. Firing an abusive coach is very positive PR. BUT, if they try to fire for cause when it isn’t really there, you have a lawsuit on your hands. Al of that (to me) points to the preponderance of evidence being that Barnard can be a dick, but isn’t abusive. Again a coach, who has previously been the subject of an internal investigation, intentionally attempting to avoid oversight by instructing the team NOT to talk to the SWA unless they are being physically assaulted IS abusive behavior. As a coach, you cannot do that. I've got no clue why you think that requires nuance but I can only hope it's because you don't understand the protocols, rather than that you truly believe it's acceptable to disregard them in such a manner.
|
|
|
Post by Brutus Buckeye on Jul 31, 2020 19:49:07 GMT -5
You are quite welcome.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Jul 31, 2020 19:59:34 GMT -5
I specifically said ‘abuse’. There are many things in that article that I think are inappropriate and I would very much warn my club athletes about if they were getting recruited by OSU. Maybe warn isn’t the right word. But to address with both the coach and players and be sure they’re comfortable with the responses. And you’re right. I probably could’ve had more nuance in that first post. Given that this is the one side of the story that paints him in the worst possible light and that OSU even responded and said they looked into it and handled it, to me it’s unlikely abusive behavior occurred. Plus, as mentioned by somebody else, OSU is a bad volleyball program. There’s no reason to cover this stuff up. Firing an abusive coach is very positive PR. BUT, if they try to fire for cause when it isn’t really there, you have a lawsuit on your hands. Al of that (to me) points to the preponderance of evidence being that Barnard can be a dick, but isn’t abusive. Again a coach, who has previously been the subject of an internal investigation, intentionally attempting to avoid oversight by instructing the team NOT to talk to the SWA unless they are being physically assaulted IS abusive behavior. As a coach, you cannot do that. I've got no clue why you think that requires nuance but I can only hope it's because you don't understand the protocols, rather than that you truly believe it's acceptable to disregard them in such a manner. If he's fired for not adhering to athletic department protocols, and athletes other than the ones who are upset about their scholarship getting pulled corroborate the story, I'd understand that. But that by itself isn't abuse. That's the only thing I've argued.
|
|
|
Post by c4ndlelight on Jul 31, 2020 20:08:29 GMT -5
Plus, as mentioned by somebody else, OSU is a bad volleyball program. There’s no reason to cover this stuff up. Firing an abusive coach is very positive PR. BUT, if they try to fire for cause when it isn’t really there, you have a lawsuit on your hands. This isn't a logical point that should be accepted. When the admin team is still there, firing an abusive coach indicates you hired an abusive coach. This is particularly when the ones who hired the coach made their decision to do so based on a longstanding relationship with that coach.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Jul 31, 2020 20:10:24 GMT -5
Plus, as mentioned by somebody else, OSU is a bad volleyball program. There’s no reason to cover this stuff up. Firing an abusive coach is very positive PR. BUT, if they try to fire for cause when it isn’t really there, you have a lawsuit on your hands. This isn't a logical point that should be accepted. When the admin team is still there, firing an abusive coach indicates you hired an abusive coach. This is particularly when the ones who hired the coach made their decision to do so based on a longstanding relationship with that coach. I guess that's possible. I just disagree.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Jul 31, 2020 20:20:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Jul 31, 2020 20:21:34 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by blastingsand on Jul 31, 2020 20:47:18 GMT -5
It definitely is sounding more and more similar to the Moore case at Oregon. With all the players disputing what other players have felt about the situation. While their perspective is also valid that they could have teammates that just can't handle the pressure/intensity of a division 1 life. It is still a serious manner as players were saying they are contemplated suicide. Really hoping they find their peace and get themselves out of a toxic situation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 22:21:49 GMT -5
How in the hell have we not learned yet that NON-ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR DOES NOT NEUTRALIZE ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR?
I can’t help but cringe every time someone posts a defense like this. What these posts are saying is quite literally, “he didn’t abuse me, so your story must be false.”
The athletes posting things like this better hope they are never the recipient of abuse. Imagine publicly admitting that you’ve been abused, only to have a former teammate of yours try to imply that you’re lying, because *they* weren’t abused. Having her respond like such, knowing that you and two of your teammates contemplated suicide over it. Imagine how hurtful that would be??
No. Abusers. Abuse. Everybody.
Stop victim blaming, and stop using your own personal experiences to invalidate anyone else’s.
|
|