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Post by joetrinsey on Aug 10, 2020 10:44:24 GMT -5
Do you feel differently about college club athletes?
Example: Kutztown University is an NCAA Division 2 school by me that is planning to be open for in-person classes this fall. Its varsity conference, the PSAC, has canceled fall sports. I'm not involved with their school in any way, but they appear to have some language on their website that states that they will attempt to support campus clubs and organizations (to the extent they comply with CDC, state, and, local guidelines, etc, etc).
If the KU club team wants to practice a couple times per week and play against Bucknell's club team (to use an example of another local school who will be on-campus in the fall), should that be allowed?
If, so what makes for the difference between this and varsity volleyball? The travel component? The pressure (whether explicit or implicit) that athletes will feel to prevent them from opting out if they don't want to play? The "workers comp" aspect of athletes (mostly football and basketball) "earning money" for an organization in a more hazardous playing environment?
(Please note: I'm not trying to "gotcha" anybody or prove anybody right or wrong here. I'm just a volleyball coach who wants to help athletes of all ages play volleyball and play volleyball safely. I'm just interested in people's viewpoints on this.)
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Post by cindra on Aug 10, 2020 10:47:59 GMT -5
Do you feel differently about college club athletes?
Example: Kutztown University is an NCAA Division 2 school by me that is planning to be open for in-person classes this fall. Its varsity conference, the PSAC, has canceled fall sports. I'm not involved with their school in any way, but they appear to have some language on their website that states that they will attempt to support campus clubs and organizations (to the extent they comply with CDC, state, and, local guidelines, etc, etc).
If the KU club team wants to practice a couple times per week and play against Bucknell's club team (to use an example of another local school who will be on-campus in the fall), should that be allowed?
If, so what makes for the difference between this and varsity volleyball? The travel component? The pressure (whether explicit or implicit) that athletes will feel to prevent them from opting out if they don't want to play? The "workers comp" aspect of athletes (mostly football and basketball) "earning money" for an organization in a more hazardous playing environment?
(Please note: I'm not trying to "gotcha" anybody or prove anybody right or wrong here. I'm just a volleyball coach who wants to help athletes of all ages play volleyball and play volleyball safely. I'm just interested in people's viewpoints on this.)
Club athletics won't be happening either. I'm at Pitt right now, our plan is (relatively) gung-ho about in person classes. Even at our least restrictive, club sports will probably be limited to practicing in pods, masked, and avoiding contact as much as possible. There's no way that club sports happen on any meaningful level if schools can't find the right way to do varsity sports that actually have some amount of funding and weight behind them.
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Post by joetrinsey on Aug 10, 2020 10:53:59 GMT -5
Club athletics won't be happening either. I'm at Pitt right now, our plan is (relatively) gung-ho about in person classes. Even at our least restrictive, club sports will probably be limited to practicing in pods, masked, and avoiding contact as much as possible. There's no way that club sports happen on any meaningful level if schools can't find the right way to do varsity sports that actually have some amount of funding and weight behind them.
That is a good data point and I appreciate you sharing. On the flip side, I have heard from one college club vb president whose team just got permission to practice (for now, for whatever that is worth) in accordance with however gyms are open in her state. (Which is currently limited to 10 people per court.)
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Post by oldnewbie on Aug 10, 2020 11:05:45 GMT -5
Club athletics won't be happening either. I'm at Pitt right now, our plan is (relatively) gung-ho about in person classes. Even at our least restrictive, club sports will probably be limited to practicing in pods, masked, and avoiding contact as much as possible. There's no way that club sports happen on any meaningful level if schools can't find the right way to do varsity sports that actually have some amount of funding and weight behind them.
That is a good data point and I appreciate you sharing. On the flip side, I have heard from one college club vb president whose team just got permission to practice (for now, for whatever that is worth) in accordance with however gyms are open in her state. (Which is currently limited to 10 people per court.)
It will depend a lot on state and local guidelines, which vary across the country. In most of California, schools are not yet allowed to have students on campus at all, and are going 100% virtual for fall.
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Post by Phaedrus on Aug 10, 2020 11:21:16 GMT -5
So, what is acceptable losses in your mind? What percentage of athletes getting myocardia or dying from it is acceptable? Well, I don't believe that an in-season college athlete is at higher risk to get COVID than an out-of-season athlete (or a typical college student). The #1 way to get a college student to not go to bars and parties is to make them an in-season athlete. You sidestepped my question. What, in your opinion, is the threshold where we need to say: stop, the cost in lives lost is too much? Make it easier, what is the percentage of athletes who test positive for COVID is the threshold for "normal" and "acceptable"?
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Post by Phaedrus on Aug 10, 2020 11:36:56 GMT -5
Do you feel differently about college club athletes? Example: Kutztown University is an NCAA Division 2 school by me that is planning to be open for in-person classes this fall. Its varsity conference, the PSAC, has canceled fall sports. I'm not involved with their school in any way, but they appear to have some language on their website that states that they will attempt to support campus clubs and organizations (to the extent they comply with CDC, state, and, local guidelines, etc, etc). If the KU club team wants to practice a couple times per week and play against Bucknell's club team (to use an example of another local school who will be on-campus in the fall), should that be allowed? If, so what makes for the difference between this and varsity volleyball? The travel component? The pressure (whether explicit or implicit) that athletes will feel to prevent them from opting out if they don't want to play? The "workers comp" aspect of athletes (mostly football and basketball) "earning money" for an organization in a more hazardous playing environment? (Please note: I'm not trying to "gotcha" anybody or prove anybody right or wrong here. I'm just a volleyball coach who wants to help athletes of all ages play volleyball and play volleyball safely. I'm just interested in people's viewpoints on this.)
Insightful question. Many different parameters being introduced here. It depends on what the situation is a Kutztown and at Bucknell, where the numbers are in both places. I take th local ordinances and CDC and WHO recommendations as the bare minimum, and I would be ready to act quickly as things change, so really not all that different than if I am dealing with a varsity sport. The difference is the support system between varsity and club. If you read the account of the Indiana football player's mom, you will see that IU did everything right. They followed all the protocols and they still had a outbreak. Will the club sports team be supported the same way? Will the school spend that kind of money for testing and paying for the kind of precautions that a Power 5 conference football team is getting right now for a club team? In the best of all worlds, the goal is to take care of all the students, whether they generate greater revenue for the university or not.
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Post by n00b on Aug 10, 2020 11:55:06 GMT -5
Well, I don't believe that an in-season college athlete is at higher risk to get COVID than an out-of-season athlete (or a typical college student). The #1 way to get a college student to not go to bars and parties is to make them an in-season athlete. You sidestepped my question. What, in your opinion, is the threshold where we need to say: stop, the cost in lives lost is too much? Make it easier, what is the percentage of athletes who test positive for COVID is the threshold for "normal" and "acceptable"? The same as a university is using for a general student population.
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Post by nothingbutcorn on Aug 11, 2020 14:36:12 GMT -5
With the B1G, and soon to be PAC12 both calling fall sports, how long before the rest feel it is a lost cause? Really have to wonder if winter/springs sports will even happen? Is the NCAA truly about to become extinct?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2020 10:28:09 GMT -5
www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2020/08/13/college-sports-bill-rights-unveiled-senators-who-want-change/3362358001/In sight and growing ever closer... “We have to create a system that clearly the NCAA has not been willing to do on its own,” Booker, a former Stanford football player, said in an interview with USA TODAY Sports. “We’re talking to a lot of athletes who have painful stories. These are courageous young people who right now are speaking out — and often facing retribution for speaking out — about their basic rights. I just really respect these athletes for showing such courage and commitment to the larger issues of equity and justice within college athletics.”
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Post by mervinswerved on Aug 13, 2020 10:53:33 GMT -5
I bet the NCAA wishes it had moved on NIL and benefits years ago. Might have gotten away with allowing only half of what it's going to have to give up now.
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Post by n00b on Aug 13, 2020 11:03:26 GMT -5
www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2020/08/13/college-sports-bill-rights-unveiled-senators-who-want-change/3362358001/In sight and growing ever closer... “We have to create a system that clearly the NCAA has not been willing to do on its own,” Booker, a former Stanford football player, said in an interview with USA TODAY Sports. “We’re talking to a lot of athletes who have painful stories. These are courageous young people who right now are speaking out — and often facing retribution for speaking out — about their basic rights. I just really respect these athletes for showing such courage and commitment to the larger issues of equity and justice within college athletics.” Universities will adopt the Ivy League model before going to revenue sharing.
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Post by mervinswerved on Aug 13, 2020 11:24:29 GMT -5
www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2020/08/13/college-sports-bill-rights-unveiled-senators-who-want-change/3362358001/In sight and growing ever closer... “We have to create a system that clearly the NCAA has not been willing to do on its own,” Booker, a former Stanford football player, said in an interview with USA TODAY Sports. “We’re talking to a lot of athletes who have painful stories. These are courageous young people who right now are speaking out — and often facing retribution for speaking out — about their basic rights. I just really respect these athletes for showing such courage and commitment to the larger issues of equity and justice within college athletics.” Universities will adopt the Ivy League model before going to revenue sharing. You base that on what, exactly? I guess some university could, but all universities? All big football schools? Any big football schools?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2020 11:30:54 GMT -5
www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2020/08/13/college-sports-bill-rights-unveiled-senators-who-want-change/3362358001/In sight and growing ever closer... “We have to create a system that clearly the NCAA has not been willing to do on its own,” Booker, a former Stanford football player, said in an interview with USA TODAY Sports. “We’re talking to a lot of athletes who have painful stories. These are courageous young people who right now are speaking out — and often facing retribution for speaking out — about their basic rights. I just really respect these athletes for showing such courage and commitment to the larger issues of equity and justice within college athletics.” Universities will adopt the Ivy League model before going to revenue sharing. Such a shake up would also necessitate a cessation of the so called "arms race" within collegiate athletics. As soon as money goes out of fashion, I think you'll see such an option adopted.
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Post by jake on Aug 13, 2020 11:43:06 GMT -5
www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2020/08/13/college-sports-bill-rights-unveiled-senators-who-want-change/3362358001/In sight and growing ever closer... “We have to create a system that clearly the NCAA has not been willing to do on its own,” Booker, a former Stanford football player, said in an interview with USA TODAY Sports. “We’re talking to a lot of athletes who have painful stories. These are courageous young people who right now are speaking out — and often facing retribution for speaking out — about their basic rights. I just really respect these athletes for showing such courage and commitment to the larger issues of equity and justice within college athletics.” Universities will adopt the Ivy League model before going to revenue sharing. Paying student-athletes to play for a college is profound, IMO. And, should never happen. There is a fine line between being called an amateur and being a professional. Receiving a pay check for playing college sports is crossing that line. Another approach would be to have the school donate in your name to a charity of the SA's choice. Thereby not allowing the SA to become the recipient of any revenue whatsoever.
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Post by oldunc on Aug 13, 2020 12:00:20 GMT -5
Seems to me that the end has been in sight for a long time. The whole question of paying college athletes aside (where it belongs, in my opinion) there simply isn't any logical reason for colleges to be running professional or quasi professional sports leagues; the system has simply carried on the momentum from the days of Cambridge-Oxford boat races as national events. By interrupting that momentum and forcing colleges to rethink and restart the whole process, probably at even greater cost, the current crisis is likely to precipitate the end of the system or anything like it.
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