|
Post by gobruins on Feb 10, 2021 17:31:42 GMT -5
Also, the field of Economics tends to just be the field of the economics of capitalism. It's almost completely captured by the structure in which it exists. This makes sense coming from your POV. Since John Maynard Keynes - Keynes has dominated college economic textbooks since the 1930's. Keynes is the essentially the economic theory adopted by the Democratic party for almost a century now. I don't agree with much of Keynes - or particularly some of the stuff that has been misapplied by the Government. I would consider it as an assault on the fundamental theory of Capitalism. Given that I sense you find orthodoxy Democratic party economic policy to be wrong and 'capitalist' probably makes sense from your POV. This is total B.S. I was an Economics major at UCLA. There was virtually no Keynes in any of my textbooks. Virtually all my professors worshipped at the temple of Milton Friedman. Almost everything was based on "supply side" and the Laffer Curve.
|
|
|
Post by mikegarrison on Feb 10, 2021 17:56:37 GMT -5
There was actually the phrase "little to no job loss". So no, the article said that at least some economists *do* say it wouldn't increase unemployment. Of course, it's just an article, not a formal paper or anything. But again, your claim that no economists disagree with you was so extraordinary and unsupported that it was a snap to Goggle up examples of an economist disagreeing with you. If raising the minimum wage didn't cause unemployment - why only $15 per hour. Wouldn't a minimum wage of $1,000,000 per hour be far better? A minimum wage law outlaws employment by making some employment illegal - it doesn't add to employment, or at least it is illogical to say we are going to increase employment by making some employment illegal. Now - a minimum wage of $1 would have no impact on unemployment. Maybe $15 will have a small impact - but there is no logical way that it can add jobs. You are really trying to run out all the logical fallacies today aren't you? Here we see both the "slippery slope" (if we raise it to $15/hr, why not $1,000,000/hr?) and also of course the classic straw man (nobody is saying we should raise it to $1,000,000/hr, but since that's ever so much easier to argue against than $15, that's what you choose to pretend we are discussing).
|
|
bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 12,938
|
Post by bluepenquin on Feb 10, 2021 18:18:24 GMT -5
This makes sense coming from your POV. Since John Maynard Keynes - Keynes has dominated college economic textbooks since the 1930's. Keynes is the essentially the economic theory adopted by the Democratic party for almost a century now. I don't agree with much of Keynes - or particularly some of the stuff that has been misapplied by the Government. I would consider it as an assault on the fundamental theory of Capitalism. Given that I sense you find orthodoxy Democratic party economic policy to be wrong and 'capitalist' probably makes sense from your POV. This is total B.S. I was an Economics major at UCLA. There was virtually no Keynes in any of my textbooks. Virtually all my professors worshipped at the temple of Milton Friedman. Almost everything was based on "supply side" and the Laffer Curve. Dang! - that sounds like a great University. U. of Chicago I am sure was skewed towards Freidman - kind of depended on who was running the department. My masters program at Kansas City was pretty much all Keynes.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 10, 2021 22:03:52 GMT -5
The thing is, of course, that if the minimum wage is raised, all businesses have to follow. So it's not the same as if some company decides on their own to raise wages. Since all the companies have to do the same thing, nobody gets a competitive disadvantage. It does, however, give an advantage to companies that are hiring people under the table. There will probably be an increase of businesses illegally paying people cash under the table to work for them and avoid taxes, minimum wage, worker safety laws, etc. It also gives an advantage to companies that can automate. Chipotle can easily require all ordering and payment to be done via app or kiosk. That's tougher for a local burrito joint.
|
|
|
Post by mervinswerved on Feb 10, 2021 22:06:16 GMT -5
I'm more of an Antonio Negri guy myself.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 10, 2021 22:12:01 GMT -5
Is that supposed to be an example of a jurisdiction going above and beyond? $15/hr in Montgomery, AL would be equivalent to $26/hr in Seattle. Living wage for a single adult in Montgomery, AL is $11.18. Add in 1 kid, and it's $22.82. Let's do $25/hour! I still don't understand why it should be the same (or close to the same) in Montgomery and Seattle. The living wage in Seattle is $15.26 and $29.36 with a kid. So why would the federal government require one location to meet a much higher percentage of that wage?
|
|
|
Post by donut on Feb 10, 2021 22:18:07 GMT -5
Living wage for a single adult in Montgomery, AL is $11.18. Add in 1 kid, and it's $22.82. Let's do $25/hour! I still don't understand why it should be the same (or close to the same) in Montgomery and Seattle. The living wage in Seattle is $15.26 and $29.36 with a kid. So why would the federal government require one location to meet a much higher percentage of that wage? So you're advocating for abolishing the federal minimum wage in general?
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 10, 2021 22:38:42 GMT -5
I still don't understand why it should be the same (or close to the same) in Montgomery and Seattle. The living wage in Seattle is $15.26 and $29.36 with a kid. So why would the federal government require one location to meet a much higher percentage of that wage? So you're advocating for abolishing the federal minimum wage in general? I'm not sure what the impact of that would be, so probably not. But why would it be a bad thing to tie it to a cost of living index like the MIT calculator you referenced?
|
|
|
Post by mervinswerved on Feb 10, 2021 22:46:08 GMT -5
So you're advocating for abolishing the federal minimum wage in general? I'm not sure what the impact of that would be, so probably not. But why would it be a bad thing to tie it to a cost of living index like the MIT calculator you referenced? Well, it wouldn't be a *federal* minimum wage anymore, for starters.
|
|
|
Post by HOLIDAY on Feb 10, 2021 22:47:38 GMT -5
The states should decide what minimum wage is. Obviously New York City should be different than small-town USA with 100 people.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 10, 2021 22:54:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the impact of that would be, so probably not. But why would it be a bad thing to tie it to a cost of living index like the MIT calculator you referenced? Well, it wouldn't be a *federal* minimum wage anymore, for starters. It's still a federal law enforced by the federal government.
|
|
|
Post by mervinswerved on Feb 10, 2021 22:59:06 GMT -5
There has to be *some* minimum number.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 11, 2021 0:50:39 GMT -5
There has to be *some* minimum number. A quick Google shows that several of the Scandinavian countries that many like to hold up as an example of where US economic policy should go don't have any minimum wage - Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland. Unions seem to have much more bargaining power there.
|
|
|
Post by mikegarrison on Feb 11, 2021 2:38:40 GMT -5
There has to be *some* minimum number. A quick Google shows that several of the Scandinavian countries that many like to hold up as an example of where US economic policy should go don't have any minimum wage - Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland. Unions seem to have much more bargaining power there. In those places, your education is paid for, your health care is paid for, you have a more solid social structure all around. So "poverty" means something quite different than it does in the US. It's not as important to try to keep people from getting stuck with poverty-level wages.
|
|
|
Post by mervinswerved on Feb 11, 2021 7:47:10 GMT -5
lol
If you want to trade minimum wage for an actual social democracy like the Scandinavians, I'm all for it.
|
|