Minnesota Golden Gophers 2021

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2021 15:17:32 GMT -5 mcmike said:

I’d like to know what Shaff’s assist percentage is for the two of them.
Wenaas is a consistent terminator when she has an angle.
She is not the best at scoring off tools or high hands but I suspect set location is a factor in her hitting %

Higher Samedy D sets allow more time for approach and swing adjustment
On back sets closer to the net if the contact point is at the apex of her jump Samedy can hit over the top of most blocks. On quicker 2S and ?2.5s she can defeat an unclosed block
She gets blocked most frequently on the closer sets after the block gets well established

I would expect Shaff’s assist % is better with Samedy

Neither Wenaas nor Miyabe are accomplished tippers so when they can’t take a hard swing, which happens too often imo, we leak points. Vary set tempo and location, gap set MBs and our OHs

I believe the talent for hitting .300 is there

What is assist percentage? Do stat-keepers actually keep track of total sets and sets that resulted in a kill?

I think it's just silly to suggest that the ratio of those two numbers is in any way meaningful towards something like "quality of setting".


You can be the worst setter in the country, but if you have the best hitters who can terminate with the junk you're heaving towards them anyway, then your ratio is going to be very high. And the converse is obviously true as well, resulting in a low ratio even though your butter sets are being wasted by poor hitters.

[Draco_MN]

Dec 2, 2021 9:27:53 GMT -5 @gophers4life said:

Dec 1, 2021 15:17:32 GMT -5 mcmike said:

I’d like to know what Shaff’s assist percentage is for the two of them.
Wenaas is a consistent terminator when she has an angle.
She is not the best at scoring off tools or high hands but I suspect set location is a factor in her hitting %

Higher Samedy D sets allow more time for approach and swing adjustment
On back sets closer to the net if the contact point is at the apex of her jump Samedy can hit over the top of most blocks. On quicker 2S and ?2.5s she can defeat an unclosed block
She gets blocked most frequently on the closer sets after the block gets well established

I would expect Shaff’s assist % is better with Samedy

Neither Wenaas nor Miyabe are accomplished tippers so when they can’t take a hard swing, which happens too often imo, we leak points. Vary set tempo and location, gap set MBs and our OHs

I believe the talent for hitting .300 is there

What is assist percentage? Do stat-keepers actually keep track of total sets and sets that resulted in a kill?

I think it's just silly to suggest that the ratio of those two numbers is in any way meaningful towards something like "quality of setting".


You can be the worst setter in the country, but if you have the best hitters who can terminate with the junk you're heaving towards them anyway, then your ratio is going to be very high. And the converse is obviously true as well, resulting in a low ratio even though your butter sets are being wasted by poor hitters.

See Sydney Hilley’s slide sets to Rettke (ope, sorry I couldn’t resist)

[mcmike]

"What is assist percentage? Do stat-keepers actually keep track of total sets and sets that resulted in a kill"

In the match by match statistics the output file that includes the sideout %s also includes the number of set attempts and the set %.
These are available by clicking on 'recap' first and then box score in the dialog box
Clicking on 'box score' from the match news gets you a different output that does not include those stats.

I don't know how to find the aggregate set % over the season or conference schedule.

[vollem]

When I was taught how to track assists, every attempt would be an "a", and one that resulted in a kill would be recorded as "A". An assist as we know it (not just a set) is only recorded as such when the set results in a kill. So 10 A/S means there should be 10 kills per set. The total kills of the team should equal A/S*(sets played). I'd assume if there are more kills than this product, then there were overpass kills or setter dumps. I don't recall if freeball kills are recorded as kills (or are they just dig errors for the opponent).

ETA: I misread mcmike post. Didn't know those stats were available, but I don't check boxscores since I try to follow live. Live stats, whether statsbroadcast or sidearm, don't have the assist "attempts".

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2021 12:46:05 GMT -5 vollem said:

When I was taught how to track assists, every attempt would be an "a", and one that resulted in a kill would be recorded as "A". An assist as we know it (not just a set) is only recorded as such when the set results in a kill. So 10 A/S means there should be 10 kills per set. The total kills of the team should equal A/S*(sets played). I'd assume if there are more kills than this product, then there were overpass kills or setter dumps. I don't recall if freeball kills are recorded as kills (or are they just dig errors for the opponent).

Thanks. So what is an assist?? And what is the possible benefit of keeping track of such a course-grained thing??

Unless a kill is recorded on the first touch coming across the net ...... the ball had to come to the hitter from someone??

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2021 10:04:13 GMT -5 Draco_MN said:

Dec 2, 2021 9:27:53 GMT -5 @gophers4life said:

What is assist percentage? Do stat-keepers actually keep track of total sets and sets that resulted in a kill?

I think it's just silly to suggest that the ratio of those two numbers is in any way meaningful towards something like "quality of setting".


You can be the worst setter in the country, but if you have the best hitters who can terminate with the junk you're heaving towards them anyway, then your ratio is going to be very high. And the converse is obviously true as well, resulting in a low ratio even though your butter sets are being wasted by poor hitters.

See Sydney Hilley’s slide sets to Rettke (ope, sorry I couldn’t resist)

Literally screaming in laughter!

[Deleted]

Late for this but congrats to Stephanie Samedy for BIG10 POY.

The first match I got to watch Samedy was 2017 vs Texas @ Texas. I was so intrigued to watch Lexi Sun (who is great in her own right) and how her game would transfer to college. When I saw Samedy, I immediately fell in love with her game and composure and have been hooked ever since. I’ll definitely be sad when her NCAA career is over as it’ll be the end of a special era.

[vollem]

Dec 2, 2021 15:02:48 GMT -5 @gophers4life said:

Dec 2, 2021 12:46:05 GMT -5 vollem said:

Thanks. So what is an assist?? And what is the possible benefit of keeping track of such a course-grained thing??

Unless a kill is recorded on the first touch coming across the net ...... the ball had to come to the hitter from someone??

An assist is a set that resulted in a kill. Let's say Shaff sets a ball to someone and the other team digs it up, play continues. That particular set is not an assist. If Shaff sets a ball (or anyone, say CC or Wenaas etc) and someone hits it, resulting in a kill, then that is an assist. 

This would be in the event of an overpass kill. If opposing team caused an overpass they would not get an assist for letting the team smack down an errant overpass. I am not sure what happens to assists when setter dumps are involved. 

It looks like what mcmike was referring to in the Gopher stat tracker, which is much more indepth than what is presented on any livestat platform (what I usually follow), is under the "Set" column. A quick calculation indicates that percentage in the rightmost column of the "Set" column is: PCT = A/TA. Simple enough, but I don't think that's as telling as hitting percentage (PCT = (K-E)/TA). The set percentage only shows what percentage of all sets resulted in a kill. It doesn't say what happened after a set DIDN'T result in a kill. Was the hitting attempt an immediate error? What kind of error -- roofed, out of bounds, unforced into the net? Did player get blocked but play continued (due to successful coverage)? Sure you can look at team hitting percentage but at that point, as far as I can tell, you can't connect the Set Percentage to the team's hitting percentage. I'm sure a database like Volleymetrics can do a deeper, more individualized take on what set percentage can really factor into, but I don't think it's THE indicator of setting efficiency. It's rather bare bones. Unless I'm missing something. It's honestly the first time I've seen that metric, and I've kept stats for assist tracking (but just for high school). 

Team setting percentage: .341 (Shaff's is .371, so ~37% of her sets results in kills)
Team hitting percentage: .234

[vollem]

Another interesting statline for the middles:

#, Name	Kills	Errors	Attempts	Hitting%	Kills/Set	Total Blocks	Blocks/Set
9, Rubright	39	10	93	.312	.72	45	.83
16, Husemann	41	23	122	.148	.69	72	1.22
23, Myers	94	29	285	.228	.94	117	1.17

Not great hitting percentages for middles, who probably want to be in the .400s or even high .300s. We know they aren't getting many looks, so the stats aren't exactly stuffed. And some/most of these kills aren't great contacts (likewise, some of these errors were on what should have been overpass kills). 

[mcmike]

For the hundreds of sets in practice and games it remains a mystery why middles can't terminate a quick set.
If the arc of a MBs swing hasn't crossed 12 to '11 or 10:30' on a clock face hour hand the ball's trajectory won't be heading down into the court. Either the MBs are too quick to the net so the set is above them, or they are in position but the set doesn't lead them.  Soooo frustrating week in & out with little progress.
Have the coaches had to have had surgery for for blunt trauma or tongue lacerations?
The inability to terminate on overpasses is also mystifying. Gremlins must have snuck osmium into the soles of their shoes cuz they aren't getting off the Teraflex more than a few inches.

with just a modicum of production the block pressure on the left pin could ease.
Please stop sending Husemann on a cross country excursion to nowhere in rotation1. Fake her on a gap set. Get the pass to the net on the right side of the court so you can fake a quick to her and give Samedy a gap set.
SOMETHING DIFFERENT PUHLEEZE!

Not only are new patterns and plays fun, but they cause coverage confusion for the opponents.

[vollem]

Dec 2, 2021 22:19:21 GMT -5 mcmike said:

The inability to terminate on overpasses is also mystifying. Gremlins must have snuck osmium into the soles of their shoes cuz they aren't getting off the Teraflex more than a few inches.

with just a modicum of production the block pressure on the left pin could ease.
Please stop sending Husemann on a cross country excursion to nowhere in rotation1. Fake her on a gap set. Get the pass to the net on the right side of the court so you can fake a quick to her and give Samedy a gap set.
SOMETHING DIFFERENT PUHLEEZE!

Not only are new patterns and plays fun, but they cause coverage confusion for the opponents.

Terminating overpasses has nothing to do with Shaff, so this alone is an isolated issue. 
Pattern play, why not (as long as they don't get tangled up). Samedy is so great but help the pins. They've been cranking when the block is camped big time on them and they still score pretty well. To me, that means the pins are exceptional in spite of the circumstances.

[snickers]

Nice article. Let's remember that these athletes face a lot of pressure that we, as fans, can't understand. Let's show them some grace and appreciate their hard work.

www.startribune.com/gophers-volleyball-team-bonded-at-midseason-to-finish-strong/600123220/

[B1Gminnesotafan]

Yes. Go Gophers. If they just play their game to the level they have been playing they should be fine today.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2021 22:19:21 GMT -5 mcmike said:

For the hundreds of sets in practice and games it remains a mystery why middles can't terminate a quick set.

Well, have you watched the games, instead of just looking at a live stream of the stat sheet? Sorry to be a jerk there, but it can sometimes feel that way with some folks in vball!

The sets to the Middles have often been too high (ball just starting to come down as the player is already starting to fall down from their jump), or have been set to their armpits, and they have to do a super awkward chicken-win thing to even get it over the net.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2021 15:56:29 GMT -5 vollem said:

Dec 2, 2021 15:02:48 GMT -5 @gophers4life said:

Thanks. So what is an assist?? And what is the possible benefit of keeping track of such a course-grained thing??

Unless a kill is recorded on the first touch coming across the net ...... the ball had to come to the hitter from someone??

An assist is a set that resulted in a kill. Let's say Shaff sets a ball to someone and the other team digs it up, play continues. That particular set is not an assist. If Shaff sets a ball (or anyone, say CC or Wenaas etc) and someone hits it, resulting in a kill, then that is an assist. 

This would be in the event of an overpass kill. If opposing team caused an overpass they would not get an assist for letting the team smack down an errant overpass. I am not sure what happens to assists when setter dumps are involved. 

It looks like what mcmike was referring to in the Gopher stat tracker, which is much more indepth than what is presented on any livestat platform (what I usually follow), is under the "Set" column. A quick calculation indicates that percentage in the rightmost column of the "Set" column is: PCT = A/TA. Simple enough, but I don't think that's as telling as hitting percentage (PCT = (K-E)/TA). The set percentage only shows what percentage of all sets resulted in a kill. It doesn't say what happened after a set DIDN'T result in a kill. Was the hitting attempt an immediate error? What kind of error -- roofed, out of bounds, unforced into the net? Did player get blocked but play continued (due to successful coverage)? Sure you can look at team hitting percentage but at that point, as far as I can tell, you can't connect the Set Percentage to the team's hitting percentage. I'm sure a database like Volleymetrics can do a deeper, more individualized take on what set percentage can really factor into, but I don't think it's THE indicator of setting efficiency. It's rather bare bones. Unless I'm missing something. It's honestly the first time I've seen that metric, and I've kept stats for assist tracking (but just for high school). 

Team setting percentage: .341 (Shaff's is .371, so ~37% of her sets results in kills)
Team hitting percentage: .234

Thank you for the excellent explanation of terminology. Appreciate it.


I guess I was looking for more of a philosophical discussion, which you may have zero interest in (which is just fine). Why should anyone care about such statistics?? They don't prove anything ... about anything, really.

A horrible set can be an assist. A perfect set can not be an assist. What use is that?? ??