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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 11:34:46 GMT -5
It is a free ball. If you say "ooo nice free ball" then your standards are too low. And Cook wants better passing. If he wanted better location on digs he'd say "I'd like to see us digging to target" or "we need more in system swings in transition". That is why we have terminology. So players, fans, media know what he means. If you confuse passing and digging the meaning gets lost too. So no, the terminology isn't stupid. Dishonest argument. Now you're trying to use very specific, technical terminology that is specific to (high level) strategies of the game. Of course such terminology is justified.
I don't even necessarily care that there are two separate, general terms to refer to receiving a serve and playing the opponent's attack.
I'm saying it's silly to call one of those "passing" and the other something else, and get all uppity and snooty when someone makes the sin of using the term "passing" for the other one.
Just stupid silly, and I hope somehow it changes.
It isn't silly. Passing and digging (that is the 'other' word btw - when someone makes a great dig, I say "great dig" not "great pass") are different skills that require different technique. There are many liberos that are good at one and not particularly good at the other. Kenzie Knuckles is a good example. Cook wants to improve serve receive, not floor defense. That is why he says passing. If pass just meant any first contact his meaning wouldn't have been clear. Again, that is why we use terminology. So that we have words to describe two different skills. You might not understand the need or think that it is silly but I don't expect it to change any time soon. |
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Post by badgerbreath on Jun 6, 2021 12:46:42 GMT -5
It's not the first time I've heard the word dig to mean simply keeping the ball off the floor and pass to mean any attempt to get the ball to the setter. Digging does inherently have two purposes, to stop the opponent scoring, and to deliver a settable ball. The casual fan sees those as distinct. I can understand that.
But it is one skill -- defenders are always digging to target unless they are truly desperate. An attack that results in a misplaced dig is still effective to some degree.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 13:13:31 GMT -5
It's not the first time I've heard the word dig to mean simply keeping the ball off the floor and pass to mean any attempt to get the ball to the setter. Digging does inherently have two purposes, to stop the opponent scoring, and to deliver a settable ball. The casual fan sees those as distinct. I can understand that. But it is one skill -- defenders are always digging to target unless they are truly desperate. An attack that results in a misplaced dig is still effective to some degree. It isn't even that complicated. No one watches an OH crush a bic and says "Nice serve". A pass is a pass - you pass a serve. A dig is a dig - you dig attacks. A dig might lead to an in system swing, it might lead to an OOS attack, it might result in a free ball or even be an overdig, but the location does not change the fact that it is still a dig. It doesn't magically become a pass. If a parent wants to yell "Nice pass" when their kid makes a great dig down the line, that is their choice. But to argue that the terminology is 'silly' and that the word pass should be used to describe every first contact fails to understand why we need two words to describe these two different skills. The first poster's confusion about why Cook was looking for a transfer libero is an example of why we use two different words. |
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Post by badgerbreath on Jun 6, 2021 13:40:08 GMT -5
It's not the first time I've heard the word dig to mean simply keeping the ball off the floor and pass to mean any attempt to get the ball to the setter. Digging does inherently have two purposes, to stop the opponent scoring, and to deliver a settable ball. The casual fan sees those as distinct. I can understand that. But it is one skill -- defenders are always digging to target unless they are truly desperate. An attack that results in a misplaced dig is still effective to some degree. If a parent want to yell "Nice pass" when their kid makes a great dig down the line, that is their choice. But to argue that the terminology is 'silly' and that the word pass should be used to describe every first contact fails to understand why we need two words to describe these two different skills. The first poster's confusion about why Cook was looking for a transfer libero is an example of why we use two different words. I agree, it makes no sense to call the proper use of terminology silly. It's that way for a reason. I read that response as a defensive reflex, though. These kind of debates end up being about nothing anyone is actually talking about, and rather about pride, status and signalling behind the words. I don't think a serve and an attack have much in common to a casual fan other than that the ball typically ends up on the other side of the net. I was trying to think of a corollary to a dig in another sport and couldn't come up with a good one. I guess, volleyball is unique among team sports in how direct the connection between defense and offense is. |
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Post by robtearle on Jun 6, 2021 13:40:24 GMT -5
So if a "pass" is the receive of serve, and a "dig" keeps an OH's spike off the floor, what do we call the first touch of a free ball?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 13:46:13 GMT -5
So if a "pass" is the receive of serve, and a "dig" keeps an OH's spike off the floor, what do we call the first touch of a free ball? In our gym we call it a "Do not F this up". |
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 6, 2021 13:47:53 GMT -5
So if a "pass" is the receive of serve, and a "dig" keeps an OH's spike off the floor, what do we call the first touch of a free ball? In our gym we call it a "Do not F this up". I was actually going to mention that quote as the gray area. I have actually heard 'passed' the freeball much more often than 'dug up' for example, because it's technically not a dig. But if someone references a team's passing, they are talking about first contact on serve receive. I've never really heard otherwise. If they reference defense, it's blocking and digging, not serve receive. |
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Post by vergyltantor on Jun 6, 2021 14:33:52 GMT -5
If a parent want to yell "Nice pass" when their kid makes a great dig down the line, that is their choice. But to argue that the terminology is 'silly' and that the word pass should be used to describe every first contact fails to understand why we need two words to describe these two different skills. The first poster's confusion about why Cook was looking for a transfer libero is an example of why we use two different words. I agree, it makes no sense to call the proper use of terminology silly. It's that way for a reason. I read that response as a defensive reflex, though. These kind of debates end up being about nothing anyone is actually talking about, and rather about pride, status and signalling behind the words. I don't think a serve and an attack have much in common to a casual fan other than that the ball typically ends up on the other side of the net. I was trying to think of a corollary to a dig in another sport and couldn't come up with a good one. I guess, volleyball is unique among team sports in how direct the connection between defense and offense is. There are a lot of times when similar actions use the same term even if they are used in different circumstances, here are a few from sports:
A backhand in Tennis. Whether it in on receive of service or during the rally it is still a backhand winner even though the skills required to be successful are very different.
In football, a defensive lineman busting through the middle and a cornerback in the open field both make tackles.
In Basketball, a 7' center in the paint and a 6' guard in 3-point land both take jump shots.
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
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Post by knapplc on Jun 6, 2021 15:35:51 GMT -5
Two pages on the definition of "pass/passing." Peak offseason form.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 16:38:40 GMT -5
And this thread was originally dedicated to the 2021 Big Ten season...
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on Jun 6, 2021 17:14:05 GMT -5
Two pages on the definition of "pass/passing." Peak offseason form.  Zzzzzzz |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 8:50:06 GMT -5
It's not the first time I've heard the word dig to mean simply keeping the ball off the floor and pass to mean any attempt to get the ball to the setter. Digging does inherently have two purposes, to stop the opponent scoring, and to deliver a settable ball. The casual fan sees those as distinct. I can understand that. But it is one skill -- defenders are always digging to target unless they are truly desperate. An attack that results in a misplaced dig is still effective to some degree. It isn't even that complicated. No one watches an OH crush a bic and says "Nice serve". A pass is a pass - you pass a serve. A dig is a dig - you dig attacks. A dig might lead to an in system swing, it might lead to an OOS attack, it might result in a free ball or even be an overdig, but the location does not change the fact that it is still a dig. It doesn't magically become a pass. If a parent wants to yell "Nice pass" when their kid makes a great dig down the line, that is their choice. But to argue that the terminology is 'silly' and that the word pass should be used to describe every first contact fails to understand why we need two words to describe these two different skills. The first poster's confusion about why Cook was looking for a transfer libero is an example of why we use two different words. Completely wrong argument. And you actually proved why, within your post.
I don't have any problem differentiating the acts of serving from the acts of attacking. Nor of course any problem differentiating the acts of serve receiving from the acts of defending against attacks. Nor do I have any issue differentiating against having separate verbs "pass" and "dig", which again isn't the argument.
The thing that's silly is trying to pretend that general term using of "passing" should only be allowed to refer to serve receiving. As you did with your reply "I don't you know what passing is ....". Silly. The correct analogy would be if the general term for when a team serves the ball was referred to as "hitting". That would be the same level of silliness.
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Post by b1gnetwerth on Jun 7, 2021 9:42:24 GMT -5
It’s official. Newton is back...
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Post by bruinsgold on Jun 7, 2021 9:47:03 GMT -5
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Post by bruinsgold on Jun 7, 2021 9:48:31 GMT -5
Now I can make that PURDUE FALL 2021 thread 😂
WELCOME BACK NEWTON!
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Zzzzzzz
