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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 5, 2021 13:48:07 GMT -5
My "problem" with the 5-1 (At Club and High School level) is that I think you become vulnerable if your setter is undersized or doesn't get up high enough for an effective block.
I hear parents say "My daughter should be in a 5-1!" but their fingertips barely get above the net (Slight exaggeration). To me the team would be better off in a 6-2.
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Post by saywhatnow on May 5, 2021 15:23:58 GMT -5
I've only been satisfied running a 6-2 when one of my setters was an effective blocker/terminal hitter in the front row. Otherwise, I don't care for it. Her stats were insane but it took its toll physically.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 5, 2021 15:31:37 GMT -5
I've only been satisfied running a 6-2 when one of my setters was an effective blocker/terminal hitter in the front row. Otherwise, I don't care for it. Her stats were insane but it took its toll physically. I'm a little confused. You like a 6-2 when you have a setter that's an effective blocker? Wouldn't that HAVE to be the case (in terms of blocking) for a 5-1?
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Post by redbeard2008 on May 5, 2021 15:43:08 GMT -5
I've only been satisfied running a 6-2 when one of my setters was an effective blocker/terminal hitter in the front row. Otherwise, I don't care for it. Her stats were insane but it took its toll physically. I'm a little confused. You like a 6-2 when you have a setter that's an effective blocker? Wouldn't that HAVE to be the case (in terms of blocking) for a 5-1? I think he's talking about rotating the taller setter to the front-row (OPP) to hit and block. You'd still have six hitters.
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Post by saywhatnow on May 5, 2021 15:45:14 GMT -5
I've only been satisfied running a 6-2 when one of my setters was an effective blocker/terminal hitter in the front row. Otherwise, I don't care for it. Her stats were insane but it took its toll physically. I'm a little confused. You like a 6-2 when you have a setter that's an effective blocker? Wouldn't that HAVE to be the case (in terms of blocking) for a 5-1? you answered your own questions. I meant that I only like a 6-2 when I don't have to sub out both setters. Could I've run a 5-1 in this situation, yes, but my middles were not good enough behind the setter.
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Post by jammaster on May 5, 2021 16:15:05 GMT -5
I've only been satisfied running a 6-2 when one of my setters was an effective blocker/terminal hitter in the front row. Otherwise, I don't care for it. Her stats were insane but it took its toll physically. My daughter is in that role as a 16U for both club and HS. Could you let me know what it was that broke down physically? I would like to keep an eye out for it. Also, I get that it is a heavy load, but really about the same total work as running a 5-1, especially if your back row isn't passing mostly 3's. Thanks in advance!
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Post by bballnut90 on May 5, 2021 16:38:49 GMT -5
I think a 5-1 is far more often a better option unless you have the right personnel for a 6-2 (2 solid RS attackers, two 6 rotation pins, consistent setters, middles that are great hitting quicks in front of the setter).
Setters often get into much better rhythms and find more consistency setting a 5-1 vs. a 6-2. They control the pace of the game, can handle tight sets better and are always warm where 6-2 setters are off the court half of the time and can struggle adjusting to a new setter. It's rare that hitters do not have a favorite setter when playing in a 6-2.
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Post by justahick on May 5, 2021 18:06:40 GMT -5
Another minus for the 6-2 is that the 6-2 has to receive in rotation 1 twice (opposite has to hit on the left in SR).
This is usually the worst sideout rotation because two hitters are hitting out of position.
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on May 5, 2021 18:10:36 GMT -5
When I first started watching I didn't know squat about substitution/rotation rules. I thought that we must have the dumbest coach alive, because he kept yanking players out of the game right after they just got done posterizing the other team with a crazy kill shot.
"Why are you pulling her off the court after a play like that, are you insane!"
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Post by ay2013 on May 5, 2021 18:16:47 GMT -5
To be fair to our beloved 6-2, some of the gripes about the 6-2 are less about the system itself and more about not having the appropriate personnel to run the 6-2 efficiently. Recruiting two quality setters to run a 6-2 is hard. Putting two terminal opposites on the floor is not a layup, either. This. It's similar to what I said in the UCLA thread a couple days ago. Frankly, I don't think we have enough data to suggest that a 6-2 is actually inferior because the personnel is so different. If you have two high caliber setters willing to put the effort into a 6-2, and put the same elite hitters that grace the rosters of Stanford/Texas/Penn State/Nebraska, etc., I think you'd see a lot of 6-2's having more success. The problem is that people like to say, well if you aren't winning titles in a 6-2, it's inferior, but the reality is that most teams aren't winning against the elite teams REGARDLESS of what system they run, because year in and year out, they don't have the other talent on the floor to compete. When top 10 teams choose to run a 6-2, their success has generally been no better or worse than when they run a 5-1 (like Texas in 2009, they were still an elite team that made the final four/NC...how is that any different than what they are doing now? Washington mid 2010's, competitive in the Pac-12 and a threat for an elite 8/possible final four....how is that any different than what they are doing now?). I like Pitt's chances last year against a whole host of teams that run a 5-1, but that's NOT because Pitt runs a 6-2, but because Pitt has the hitting corps. to win those matches regardless of what system they play.
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Post by redbeard2008 on May 5, 2021 18:18:29 GMT -5
I think one of the issues is that elite 5-1 setters (say, 5'10" or taller) are in short supply. If you can't get one (Lilley, Hilley, Powell, etc.), then recruiting two shorter setters (5'9" or shorter) to set a 6-2 can open up a larger pool of talent to choose from. Less than 1% of adult American females are 5'10" or taller. About 25% are 5'6" or taller.
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Post by deepsouthfan on May 5, 2021 19:47:39 GMT -5
Okay I consider myself to be relatively new to VT so this may have been covered before (maybe ad nauseam) BUT I was wondering why so much disdain for the 6-2 keeps popping up. Personally I like having three attackers in the front row continually and having a typically bigger block to go against opposing team's OH. What, if anything, makes a 5-1 a preferred offense? Championships!
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Post by deepsouthfan on May 5, 2021 19:56:17 GMT -5
My "problem" with the 5-1 (At Club and High School level) is that I think you become vulnerable if your setter is undersized or doesn't get up high enough for an effective block. I hear parents say "My daughter should be in a 5-1!" but their fingertips barely get above the net (Slight exaggeration). To me the team would be better off in a 6-2. Yoshie Take%*$#a, never had an issue being 5’3” and blocking.
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Post by n00b on May 5, 2021 20:11:01 GMT -5
My "problem" with the 5-1 (At Club and High School level) is that I think you become vulnerable if your setter is undersized or doesn't get up high enough for an effective block. I hear parents say "My daughter should be in a 5-1!" but their fingertips barely get above the net (Slight exaggeration). To me the team would be better off in a 6-2. Yoshie Take%*$#a, never had an issue being 5’3” and blocking. She did have an issue with her name being censored though.
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Post by carsonvega on May 5, 2021 20:19:08 GMT -5
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet for a 6-2 is what it means for back row defense.
In a 6-2, the setter is pretty much always defending in right back. At the NCAA level, at least, it seems like teams are pretty good at hitting the ball in the direction of a back-row setter when they have to hit a down ball, or roll shot/tip/etc. Consequently, a 6-2 could potentially be out of system twice as often, because of the setter having to take the first contact twice as often. Thus, a 6-2 requires a libero who is really good at out of system setting (or a bunch of front-row players like Regan Pittman, Shelly Stafford, etc., who can set a good ball even though they're not setters by position).
I admittedly have not watched much club ball at all, so the situation might be entirely different there.
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