dude2112
Junior
2023 Men's Fantasy League Champion
Posts: 453
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Post by dude2112 on Jul 9, 2021 9:09:26 GMT -5
Confused on how he would be the worst possible option if he's a very talented player? Didn't his Manhattan Beach Surf team do well in Las Vegas and his Loyola High School team do well in CIF too? Can totally see him being a hot head, from what i've seen he gets very engaged but never seems to be a bad teammate? USA is a very proud and respectful organization, Dillon Klein is a poor teammate a poor sport and all around a bad representative for USA hey, I'm curious to know what Klein did to form your opinion. I watched him play three matches at bjnc and didn't see anything like what your describing. in fact, after getting beaten by balboa bay in 2 in the semifinals, I watched him shake hands and hug every player and coach on balboa bay.
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Post by theonewhovolleys on Jul 10, 2021 10:15:21 GMT -5
There are a handful of Hawaii players on the different U16-U19 NDTP training teams. However, all we are seeing are the people that accepted this summers NTDP training session. You aren't see the names of the kids that declined the invite. One thing to remember is that this NTDP training in Anaheim isn't free. It was roughly 1K for 5 days of training and you have to provide your own transportation to the event. It also didn't have the big 5 day tournament afterwards like you had with HP. So if you were a family from Hawaii that just flew to KC for a week, paying for another plane ticket, plus 1K for training is a pretty big chunk of change. On a similar note, when you look at the numbers it seems like there are a lot of SoCal kids at the event. For the same $$'s reasons as Hawaii, I would bet the SoCal number would drop if they put this event in Colorado, Georgia, Florida ... and those local SoCal kids had to buy another plane ticket to fly to a 5 day training event. This trip is actually fully paid for by USA volleyball; including travel, lodgings, and food.
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dude2112
Junior
2023 Men's Fantasy League Champion
Posts: 453
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Post by dude2112 on Jul 10, 2021 10:23:02 GMT -5
There are a handful of Hawaii players on the different U16-U19 NDTP training teams. However, all we are seeing are the people that accepted this summers NTDP training session. You aren't see the names of the kids that declined the invite. One thing to remember is that this NTDP training in Anaheim isn't free. It was roughly 1K for 5 days of training and you have to provide your own transportation to the event. It also didn't have the big 5 day tournament afterwards like you had with HP. So if you were a family from Hawaii that just flew to KC for a week, paying for another plane ticket, plus 1K for training is a pretty big chunk of change. On a similar note, when you look at the numbers it seems like there are a lot of SoCal kids at the event. For the same $$'s reasons as Hawaii, I would bet the SoCal number would drop if they put this event in Colorado, Georgia, Florida ... and those local SoCal kids had to buy another plane ticket to fly to a 5 day training event. This trip is actually fully paid for by USA volleyball; including travel, lodgings, and food. pretty sure USA only pays for these guys: usavolleyball.org/story/boys-mens-age-group-national-teams-to-share-training-block-in-anaheim/ and not these guys: usavolleyball.org/play/national-team-development-program/indoor-ntdp/indoor-ntdp-training-series/2021-summer-training-series-rosters-boys/
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Post by vbstatman on Jul 10, 2021 10:58:44 GMT -5
NTDP kids pay their own way - travel and camp fees. Perhaps there is some aid for deserving kids, but default is pay your own way.
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Post by gtrich on Jul 10, 2021 12:48:17 GMT -5
NTDP kids pay their own way - travel and camp fees. Perhaps there is some aid for deserving kids, but default is pay your own way. Correct, and I have the credit card bill to prove it. :-)
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Post by theonewhovolleys on Jul 10, 2021 13:10:16 GMT -5
Totally correct, I misread the post I quoted!
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Post by gtrich on Jul 10, 2021 20:06:35 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing the link. I was suspect when they were getting rid of tryouts but looking at the U16 and U17 teams, to see almost the entire Pinnacle & 949 15s rosters and abundance of San Diego clubs (who stuggled this season) chosen and lack of Rockstar, A4 and Balboa Bay kids (other than a few) tells me they aren't 'scouting' but asking specific club coaches and playing to aggressive directors that are pushing their kids. It's all good (i like when coaches/directors are champions for their kids), but the legitimacy is definitely in doubt. Most of A4 16, Rockstar 16 and Balboa Bay 15 & 16 should be picked over a lot of these kids listed for 16/17u. NTDP age groups are different from the normal USAV age groups, so you may need to adjust your teams a little. 17U for NTDP is kids with a birth year of 2005. 16U is 2006. So while Balboa Bay 15's might have kids on the NTDP 16U and 17U teams, the USAV 16's teams you listed could be on the 18U team. It's hard to say for the USAV 16 teams because their age group runs from July 2004 to June 2005. So the older USAV 16's could be in NTDP 18U, while the younger ones would be in 17U.
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Post by enoch on Jul 10, 2021 23:30:19 GMT -5
In doing a little research, the one 949 player who was on both all tournament teams for Socal cup in the 16u division is not on the NDTP but they have 2 setters from the 949 15u team. Unless that 16u player declined, it seems awfully fishy. I’d be pissed if the 16u setter was dissed for the 2 15u setters.
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Post by gtrich on Jul 11, 2021 11:20:28 GMT -5
Because of COVID attendance restrictions, and the switchover from the cattle call tryouts to player scouting, you really have to call this years group the BallerTV team. For most of the prime scouting period before they had to send out invites, if you didn’t play tournaments that were being broadcast on BallerTV, you might as well have not been playing from a scouting perspective. Baller was at most of our tournaments, but they weren’t at the smaller regional events we went to.
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Post by wilbur on Jul 20, 2021 13:01:49 GMT -5
In doing a little research, the one 949 player who was on both all tournament teams for Socal cup in the 16u division is not on the NDTP but they have 2 setters from the 949 15u team. Unless that 16u player declined, it seems awfully fishy. I’d be pissed if the 16u setter was dissed for the 2 15u setters. And it appeared those two setters were one that seemed to play more OH (which is fine) and other didn't seem to be their #1 setter. They actually had another setter that played more at that position during nationals than them. The setters from B2B and Balboa (that seemed solid) in final probably a little confused as well. one of those setter's dads is a founder of the club and that dad was a top prospect inside the USAV pipeline as a kid. bottom line is; this year they are going a different route and picking kids that they think will have the best chance to be in the Olympics someday. It is not based on how they finished or specifically performed in a specific event. Lots of eye tests and guess at what these kids can do in 2, 4, 6, 8 years from now. It is a new system and might be better for USAV than the old system. I do believe the old system had a lot more fund raising potential and might have grown the game more than this one.
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Post by gtrich on Jul 21, 2021 12:29:08 GMT -5
one of those setter's dads is a founder of the club and that dad was a top prospect inside the USAV pipeline as a kid. bottom line is; this year they are going a different route and picking kids that they think will have the best chance to be in the Olympics someday. It is not based on how they finished or specifically performed in a specific event. Lots of eye tests and guess at what these kids can do in 2, 4, 6, 8 years from now. It is a new system and might be better for USAV than the old system. I do believe the old system had a lot more fund raising potential and might have grown the game more than this one. Good point. There is also another kid in 17U team group with well known vball dad that i would say is quite far off from being near an Olympic hopeful or even in top half of his class at this point. I agree with your assessment on how they are doing it but believe this process of crystal ball, future predicting will lead to more Freddy Adu's than Pele's.... Even if they don't have tryouts, including larger pools at different levels gives a better perspective of how kids are progressing and i'm going to guess if they are just viewing these kids at tourneys and you are trying to identify Olympic hopefuls, not just grow the game, some reserves/platoon players on top open championship clubs are at a higher development process than some of the mass amount of players chosen for this from a heavy load of midwest and east coast teams that seem to play at an average level at these national tourneys (HVA, Sports Performance, St. James, Vanguard, Annapolis, RMR boys.. etc.) Not to take away from these boys but if this is not a 'grow the game move' i'm not sure what is. Saw those teams play at nationals and there is no way MULTIPLE kids from these teams should have been chosen for something as 'exclusive' as this is compared to HP. Without tryouts or bringing them in at lower level camps like HP did, many players that are not highlighted on mid level teams will never be noticed. I can't speak to the other clubs you listed, but the two HVA kids at NTDP were also on the 2019 Future Select HP team. That team played up in the Select division of the 2019 HP tournament and won Gold. One of them has been in the beach HP program for the past three years and the pair came in 5th at USAV beach nationals this year and 3rd at the AVP East Coast nationals last November. Watching the BallerTV video of the NTDP's sessions this week, those two kids are easily holding their own out there.
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Post by CoastalVB on Jul 21, 2021 12:34:48 GMT -5
Any thoughts on the actual teams, competition and players? These threads always turn into griping about selection and who didn’t make it. Perhaps that should be a different thread.
I like McHenry in the middle on the college team - tremendous athleticism and very new to the position. Lots of upside.
U-21 It will also be great to see Will Rottman train with this group. Lots of experience on the pins with Knight, Godbold, Rottman, Sani and some great newcomers. Good to see Champlin move to OH and Briggs moved up to the college team. The question will be who steps up at OPPO. No Solan, no Akinwumi, and Hartley is back for this age group. This position was inconsistent at the World Championships in Tunisia.
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Post by gtrich on Jul 21, 2021 12:52:15 GMT -5
I've only been watching the 16/17U boys, so I'm not really sure on the older kids. I will say this, I was standing there on Monday when the 18/19U boys walked in and with the exception of a couple, every one of them had to duck to walk through the doorway. So they are really, really tall. For 16/17U, they are splitting them up into groups of 14-15 and then they do drills all day long. Each day, they change the groups. As you watch them play, you can see that some kids are better than the others in the groups. But then two seconds later, one of the sleepers in the group will make an insane save or absolutely crush one into the floor. Unfortunately, I only know a handful of the kids and they are all pretty much wearing the same thing.
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Post by xxxnoscope72xxx on Jul 21, 2021 18:13:51 GMT -5
The USA volleyball “pipeline” is a complete joke and there’s a reason we consistently are in the bottom half of youth competition. The USA program is just a cash grab and the placement on teams is based completely on politics and it’s just a pick and choose of who the college coaches want on their team. The staff are unwilling to put the best players on the best teams, and it shows.
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Post by CoastalVB on Jul 21, 2021 19:33:51 GMT -5
The USA volleyball “pipeline” is a complete joke and there’s a reason we consistently are in the bottom half of youth competition. The USA program is just a cash grab and the placement on teams is based completely on politics and it’s just a pick and choose of who the college coaches want on their team. The staff are unwilling to put the best players on the best teams, and it shows. Cash grab? The U19 and U21 team players don't pay a dime. Placement on those teams has nothing to do with who can pay. The reason we place in the bottom half at the world championships is not because we have the wrong players it is because our system is much different than the rest of the world. When you watch the U19 and U21 teams from Italy, Poland, Argentina, Russia..what you are watching are 17-20 year olds who have already turned pro. They are not working on getting grades for Harvard, Stanford and other colleges. They are on pro teams playing against older and better players. They have experienced a faster ball, a bigger stronger block and as a result they are better overall. They aren't playing club against scrawny 17 year old peers. How good can you get playing in Anaheim practicing 3 days a week with your club when the Cuban players are playing and practicing year round against tougher competition? USA brings teams together for 8-10 days once or twice a year. That doesn't happen around the world. They practice as a team all the time - year round. If our u19 and u21 talent played in a pro system year round like the rest of the world we would be at the top. It is clear than once we enter that system that we catch up (see national team rankings). However, most of our boys don't have a pro league to shoot for at a young age. They do have college to get into and grades to worry about. The top players in most of these countries are not on the college path but working on being professionals. I would think again when you think we have the wrong players on our youth and juniors teams. Almost every single player in the national team gym came up through the USA program.
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