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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 16, 2021 15:15:47 GMT -5
It's not obvious he attacked the officer. We can't see what happened at initial contact and whether the officer initiated contact. What we do know is he was in a scuffle with unidentified individuals who approached, tased, and shot him. True. Attacked could be the wrong word. While being yelled at to get on the ground, he didn’t do that. He didn’t run. He didn’t slowly walk the opposite direction. He walked at the officer, seemingly without hesitation. A technicality of who threw the first punch I don’t think really matters here. If an officer is trying to arrest you and you walk into their space, where you can reach their weapons, they have to physically intervene. Why are we putting the burden on the civilian here, rather than on the police officers, who should be trained for this, to identify themselves in the ample available time to avoid him not knowing he was being arrested, rather than attacked?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 15:16:14 GMT -5
But was a gunshot the appropriate response?
I totally understand that police work is an incredibly difficult job, one which can put your own life on the line. But it's PART OF THE JOB. It sure seems they are much too quick to fire their weapons. If the work is so dangerous that this becomes the justified course of action, maybe new strategies need to be employed?
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 16, 2021 15:17:28 GMT -5
Yet, you and others continue to cite racism in the police force as your examples of racism in today's society. You completely again, missed the point. Calling the police has nothing to do with racism 'in' the police force. Who are the people calling the police? That's again, a form of white privilege. Whether it's being targeted by the police, or being targeted and harassed by others citizens who have zero authority. One example I gave you includes hotel staff members harassing people for using their pool (who are actually staying at the hotel). This has happened in multiple documented examples of people entering their OWN homes or their OWN pools at their own apartments, and it has zero to do with racism in the police force. Then there's employment. Being harassed and followed by security in stores. Beauty standards (ex: hairstyle). Financial transactions. Microaggressions. So much. more. Having your accomplishments not be questioned as if you may have benefitted from some affirmative action policy. A lot of these are in a way having basic freedoms that should be a given simply taken away. Inequality in Education, of course. Even educators have a history of *over-policing* (not unironic) minorities as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 15:17:51 GMT -5
The racial wealth gap in this country has zero to do with racism? The free market just by chance created these divergent outcomes with no impact by racism at all? There's really only one way for people like blue and daryl (RIP) to rationalize their beliefs about systemic racism with things like the wealth gap, and that is people with darker skins are lazier and dumber (which at least we got daryl to say as much). Which, of course, is pretty racist. Not at all. Using terms like systemic racism is bad anyways. It permits hands to go up and say "Not my fault. It's the system." This is similar to the Nuremberg Defense. It absolves personal responsibility. As for the wealth gap, it's far more complicated than looking at race. The accumulation of wealth in the hands of the top 1/1oth of 1% skews almost everything. Is that a race issue or is that those with wealth and power accumulating more of it at the expense of everyone else? I think Marxism does a better job explaining the situation than Critical Race Theory. The top 1% keeps the bottom 99% bickering while increasing the gap. That way no one notices those at the top.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 16, 2021 15:18:56 GMT -5
The racial wealth gap in this country has zero to do with racism? The free market just by chance created these divergent outcomes with no impact by racism at all? There's really only one way for people like blue and daryl (RIP) to rationalize their beliefs about systemic racism with things like the wealth gap, and that is people with darker skins are lazier and dumber (which at least we got daryl to say as much). Which, of course, is pretty racist. B-I-N-G-O
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 16, 2021 15:26:19 GMT -5
There's really only one way for people like blue and daryl (RIP) to rationalize their beliefs about systemic racism with things like the wealth gap, and that is people with darker skins are lazier and dumber (which at least we got daryl to say as much). Which, of course, is pretty racist. Not at all. Using terms like systemic racism is bad anyways. It permits hands to go up and say "Not my fault. It's the system." This is similar to the Nuremberg Defense. It absolves personal responsibility. As for the wealth gap, it's far more complicated than looking at race. The accumulation of wealth in the hands of the top 1/1oth of 1% skews almost everything. Is that a race issue or is that those with wealth and power accumulating more of it at the expense of everyone else? I think Marxism does a better job explaining the situation than Critical Race Theory. The top 1% keeps the bottom 99% bickering while increasing the gap. That way no one notices those at the top. Um, the opinion that people with darker skins are lazier and dumber, is, pretty racist. So, I would not say not at all to that post, or at least be very specific in what you're referring to. It was expressed by daryl. Using terms like systemic racism is not bad. It exists. RE: wealth gap...... um cute part about the 1%, if there are large amounts of discrepancies within the 99%, don't you see that as a racial issue? ......
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Post by donut on Jun 16, 2021 15:27:06 GMT -5
There's really only one way for people like blue and daryl (RIP) to rationalize their beliefs about systemic racism with things like the wealth gap, and that is people with darker skins are lazier and dumber (which at least we got daryl to say as much). Which, of course, is pretty racist. Not at all. Using terms like systemic racism is bad anyways. It permits hands to go up and say "Not my fault. It's the system." This is similar to the Nuremberg Defense. It absolves personal responsibility. Who is doing this? No one here is. Here, you largely have two general groups: 1) those who don't think systemic racism exists, and 2) those who acknowledge it exists, have benefitted from it, and are taking steps (whether that's through politics, activism, self-reflection, education, whatever) to dismantle it. Those who are saying "not my fault" are the ones who don't believe systemic racism exists. Your person seems fictional. No one said it wasn't complicated. But funnily enough, there are 7 black billionaires in the United States, out of 614. Why do you think that is?
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 16, 2021 15:34:24 GMT -5
Who is doing this? No one here is. Those who are saying "not my fault" are the ones who don't believe systemic racism exists. Your person seems fictional. No one said it wasn't complicated. All of this. People are really off their rockers. Just because wealth distribution and the wealth gap HAVE racial issues within them does not mean that racism simply explains the issue of wealth in itself. I don't know where people how jump from one claim to another. Asinine.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 16, 2021 15:38:01 GMT -5
I still also can't believe I went through that whole explanation again with blue and his BEST rebuttal was:
"You and other people on this board only give examples of racism within the police".
Which 1, is untrue in all of itself (we can quote countless examples). 2, is not even true to the post I made (white people policing themselves OR calling authorities is not racism within police itself, it's a problem WITHIN society). 3. means that he believes racism and white privilege is limited to internal police issues and the criminal justice system?
L o l.
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 16, 2021 15:45:09 GMT -5
The best way to stop police shootings is by taking guns away from the police!
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 16, 2021 15:54:21 GMT -5
But was a gunshot the appropriate response? I totally understand that police work is an incredibly difficult job, one which can put your own life on the line. But it's PART OF THE JOB. It sure seems they are much too quick to fire their weapons. If the work is so dangerous that this becomes the justified course of action, maybe new strategies need to be employed? There are trigger happy police, and as is our theme with this thread, race can play a factor into that unfortunately. But n00b has the opinion that those officers shouldn't even be willing to put their life on the line. He's expressed that before, why should they? Luckily, there are some heroic courageous cops still out there. I know one died recently (R.I.P) after rescuing two kids from drowning. Unfortunately, the officer died from drowning himself after rescuing those kids and attempting to get the third one. Anyways, it's telling that his default is to go to the police didn't necessarily act incorrectly. Someone is dead here and I would think any reasonable person could look at the details and think that things could have been done much better, and if we result to deadly force, all ducks should be in a line. True, courageous police officers will tell you that is never the goal, while cowards, will justify deaths of unarmed people routinely.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 16:02:39 GMT -5
The best way to stop police shootings is by taking guns away from the police! A better place to start is to make it much less likely that the people they are dealing with are armed. THEN maybe we can get to the disarming the police part.
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Post by n00b on Jun 16, 2021 16:09:50 GMT -5
But was a gunshot the appropriate response? I totally understand that police work is an incredibly difficult job, one which can put your own life on the line. But it's PART OF THE JOB. It sure seems they are much too quick to fire their weapons. If the work is so dangerous that this becomes the justified course of action, maybe new strategies need to be employed? There are trigger happy police, and as is our theme with this thread, race can play a factor into that unfortunately. But n00b has the opinion that those officers shouldn't even be willing to put their life on the line. He's expressed that before, why should they? Luckily, there are some heroic courageous cops still out there. I know one died recently (R.I.P) after rescuing two kids from drowning. Unfortunately, the officer died from drowning himself after rescuing those kids and attempting to get the third one. Anyways, it's telling that his default is to go to the police didn't necessarily act incorrectly. Someone is dead here and I would think any reasonable person could look at the details and think that things could have been done much better, and if we result to deadly force, all ducks should be in a line. True, courageous police officers will tell you that is never the goal, while cowards, will justify deaths of unarmed people routinely. Yes. My default for human beings (including the 700,000 police officers in America) is that they do not act with malice.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 16, 2021 16:19:33 GMT -5
I have continually agreed that any racism with the police should never be accepted and we should be doing everything to get rid of this. Equal protection under the law is most important. Yet, you and others continue to cite racism in the police force as your examples of racism in today's society. This has zero to do with Capitalism. This has nothing to do with school admission standards. This has little to do with CRT as being taught in elementary schools. The racial wealth gap in this country has zero to do with racism? The free market just by chance created these divergent outcomes with no impact by racism at all? 'Free market' has very little to do with the racial wealth gap in this country. Government racism has had an impact. We need to eliminate racism in the Government - we should have equal protection under the law.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 16, 2021 16:23:46 GMT -5
I still also can't believe I went through that whole explanation again with blue and his BEST rebuttal was: "You and other people on this board only give examples of racism within the police". Which 1, is untrue in all of itself (we can quote countless examples). 2, is not even true to the post I made (white people policing themselves OR calling authorities is not racism within police itself, it's a problem WITHIN society). 3. means that he believes racism and white privilege is limited to internal police issues and the criminal justice system? L o l. I have never called the police in my life. White people calling the police on black people is the source the US racism in this country that has led to a racial wealth gap? I know of several people that have had some idiot neighbor call the police on them. It is on the police to respond appropriately.
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