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Soccer
Aug 2, 2021 21:35:55 GMT -5
Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 2, 2021 21:35:55 GMT -5
This is part of it. (Saying all of this as someone who follows the team pretty closely), Dawn Scott’s (health and fitness coach or some similar title) absence has been felt. Plus, Europe is (continuously) catching up to us. We still were (or should have been) the clear favorites. We have the best midfield in the world (I’m pretty convinced Ertz and Lavelle are the two best players in the world right now). Our back line is top 3 in the world, except Dahlkemper had an awful awful tournament. It’s our forwards situation that frustrates me. It’s time, regardless of the fan backlash, to tell Lloyd, Rapinoe and maybe Morgan that their days with the National Team are done. As someone who doesn't follow women's soccer that closely, it just seemed odd to me that a majority of our lineup was over 30, especially with the brutal heat/humidity. Is the next generation just so much weaker they can't replace well? Or are we hanging on to our vets out of complacency?
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Post by dunninla3 on Aug 2, 2021 21:51:05 GMT -5
This is part of it. (Saying all of this as someone who follows the team pretty closely), Dawn Scott’s (health and fitness coach or some similar title) absence has been felt. Plus, Europe is (continuously) catching up to us. We still were (or should have been) the clear favorites. We have the best midfield in the world (I’m pretty convinced Ertz and Lavelle are the two best players in the world right now). Our back line is top 3 in the world, except Dahlkemper had an awful awful tournament. It’s our forwards situation that frustrates me. It’s time, regardless of the fan backlash, to tell Lloyd, Rapinoe and maybe Morgan that their days with the National Team are done. The issue with this tournament, just about the entire time, is that the US never seemed in sync. It was baffling. I can only suppose that when a team seems out of sync, even when it is clear they are all giving 100%, is the System they're asked to play in. But IDK if that even makes sense b/c they played so well in 2019 and 2020 in the same System. I never understood the praise Dahlkemper got at UCLA and I'm a big UCLA fan. She looked horrid these past two weeks. You say you like our midfield, but why then did we have such possession issues during some games? Where is our holding midfielder who controls possession and also dispossesses the opponent with frequency? Other countries are indeed catching up. I find it ironic that the penalty was scored by a Canadian who played at UCLA. Is our collegiate system simply paying foreign players (essentially that is what scholarships are) to train and develop so they can go home and beat the USA? I loved watching Fleming at UCLA and Mercario at Stanford, but it's ironic that they give us pleasure in college only to bring heartbreak to the USA team on the international stage. I don't observe this just in soccer, but also collegiate Track and Field seems to be the world's training ground. And linking this back to volleyball, Graudina is paid to come to the USA to play for USC, and beat Slaes four weeks ago and almost beat them in Pool play. UCLA paid the McNamara twins. Several other examples both in Beach and Indoor.
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Soccer
Aug 2, 2021 22:11:16 GMT -5
Post by donut on Aug 2, 2021 22:11:16 GMT -5
This is part of it. (Saying all of this as someone who follows the team pretty closely), Dawn Scott’s (health and fitness coach or some similar title) absence has been felt. Plus, Europe is (continuously) catching up to us. We still were (or should have been) the clear favorites. We have the best midfield in the world (I’m pretty convinced Ertz and Lavelle are the two best players in the world right now). Our back line is top 3 in the world, except Dahlkemper had an awful awful tournament. It’s our forwards situation that frustrates me. It’s time, regardless of the fan backlash, to tell Lloyd, Rapinoe and maybe Morgan that their days with the National Team are done. As someone who doesn't follow women's soccer that closely, it just seemed odd to me that a majority of our lineup was over 30, especially with the brutal heat/humidity. Is the next generation just so much weaker they can't replace well? Or are we hanging on to our vets out of complacency? Mostly the latter. That being said, I don't place ALL of the blame on USAWNT management, because it was a weird cycle. This (almost) same team won the WC in Summer 2019 and then COVID hit. We have a pipeline at the forward position for sure -- we arguably have too many forwards. That's why it's frustrating that most of the older players who (IMO) should have been left home are forwards. I'm skeptical that there's a bit of "image" or "fame" that plays into this -- these same players that should be cut are also some of the most famous (Rapinoe, Lloyd, Morgan, etc.). Interesting, there's a stark contrast between the soccer team and the volleyball team. We hold onto the vets on the volleyball team (Larson, Akinradewo) because we need them. I don't think the same is true for soccer -- perhaps some people think we need Rapinoe and co., but that's just from a publicity standpoint. The players we need (Dunn, Ertz, S. Mewis, Lavelle, Horan, Davidson) are of prime age -- they just aren't as flashy.
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Soccer
Aug 2, 2021 22:13:08 GMT -5
Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 2, 2021 22:13:08 GMT -5
As someone who doesn't follow women's soccer that closely, it just seemed odd to me that a majority of our lineup was over 30, especially with the brutal heat/humidity. Is the next generation just so much weaker they can't replace well? Or are we hanging on to our vets out of complacency? Mostly the latter. That being said, I don't place ALL of the blame on USAWNT management, because it was a weird cycle. This (almost) same team won the WC in Summer 2019 and then COVID hit. We have a pipeline at the forward position for sure -- we arguably have too many forwards. That's why it's frustrating that most of the older players who (IMO) should have been left home are forwards. I'm skeptical that there's a bit of "image" or "fame" that plays into this -- these same players that should be cut are also some of the most famous (Rapinoe, Lloyd, Morgan, etc.). Interesting, there's a stark contrast between the soccer team and the volleyball team. We hold onto the vets on the volleyball team (Larson, Akinradewo) because we need them. I don't think the same is true for soccer -- perhaps some people think we need Rapinoe and co., but that's just from a publicity standpoint. The players we need (Dunn, Ertz, S. Mewis, Lavelle, Horan, Davidson) are of prime age -- they just aren't as flashy. How much does the NT structure (with a set pool of contract players, etc.) play into that?
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Post by donut on Aug 2, 2021 22:20:11 GMT -5
I never understood the praise Dahlkemper got at UCLA and I'm a big UCLA fan. She looked horrid these past two weeks. Dahlkemper was outstanding in the 2019 World Cup. She's had a pretty stellar pro career (including in the NWSL) - this tournament was out of character for her. That being said, her leash was way too long -- she played horribly and should have taken out at least twice off the top of my head. Our holding midfielder? You mean, best-player-in-the-world, Julie Ertz? She was the least of our problems -- she had a great tournament, along with Dunn, Lavelle and maybe one or two more.
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Soccer
Aug 2, 2021 22:24:29 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2021 22:24:29 GMT -5
This is part of it. (Saying all of this as someone who follows the team pretty closely), Dawn Scott’s (health and fitness coach or some similar title) absence has been felt. Plus, Europe is (continuously) catching up to us. We still were (or should have been) the clear favorites. We have the best midfield in the world (I’m pretty convinced Ertz and Lavelle are the two best players in the world right now). Our back line is top 3 in the world, except Dahlkemper had an awful awful tournament. It’s our forwards situation that frustrates me. It’s time, regardless of the fan backlash, to tell Lloyd, Rapinoe and maybe Morgan that their days with the National Team are done. As someone who doesn't follow women's soccer that closely, it just seemed odd to me that a majority of our lineup was over 30, especially with the brutal heat/humidity. Is the next generation just so much weaker they can't replace well? Or are we hanging on to our vets out of complacency?
Neither, it's an issue of economics. The National Women's Soccer League (NWSL) has a plethora of talented players.
The Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) that the USWNTPA (women's player union) negotiated with the U.S. Soccer Federation (USSF), makes it difficult for the coach to bring in new, young talent.
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Soccer
Aug 2, 2021 22:35:55 GMT -5
Post by badgerbreath on Aug 2, 2021 22:35:55 GMT -5
Rapinoe put in a couple truly excellent crosses late on that should have been converted. They were top drawer. As a sub supplying from the wing she is excellent.This was the end for her though. USWNT goes through these phases where they look for new leadership. Akers, Foudy, Hamm, Lilly, Chastain had their time. Then Wambach, Lloyd, Rapinoe etc have had their run. Lavelle and Ertz are the core now, and the question is whether they can play the role and whether there is the talent coming up to build around them.
But the world is catching up. The old clubs in Europe are building a number of really competitive professional women's leagues. The English league used to be pretty mediocre, but with all the premier league money, it's getting better and better, and certainly way more competitive. The clubs see women and girls as the great untapped audience. They are using foreign talent as well. For example, Arsenal has only 8 of 20+ players which are British. They have Miedema from Holland, Iwabuchi from Japan, Catley and Foord from Australia. Van de Donk and Roord just left this year. They just signed some top notch Danish and Norwegian talent.
So the NCAA is not the only situation where that tension between quality and development of local talent exists. It's everywhere there is money.
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Soccer
Aug 3, 2021 1:10:00 GMT -5
Post by bbg95 on Aug 3, 2021 1:10:00 GMT -5
Regarding the "best player in the world" discussion, I looked into that and found two lists that are relatively recent. The first is from ESPN and was published in March. The second is from the Guardian and was published in December of 2020. 21 players appeared in the top 25 of both lists (ESPN published a top 50, while the Guardian published a top 100--I didn't feel like going beyond the top 25 for each list). Here are their average rankings: Note: I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these rankings. These were the two lists that I found from reputable sources. One thing that stands out is the lack of Swedish players, considering that they've been the best team in the tournament. The other thing that stands out is that France has a whopping five of the top 20 players, the most of any country. France of course is not playing in these Olympics due to the fact that UEFA is limited to just three teams in the Olympics and also because UEFA uses the WWC results as its qualification process. France lost in the quarterfinals to eventual champion USA.
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 3, 2021 4:41:39 GMT -5
Regarding the "best player in the world" discussion, I looked into that and found two lists that are relatively recent. The first is from ESPN and was published in March. The second is from the Guardian and was published in December of 2020. 21 players appeared in the top 25 of both lists (ESPN published a top 50, while the Guardian published a top 100--I didn't feel like going beyond the top 25 for each list). Here are their average rankings: Note: I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these rankings. These were the two lists that I found from reputable sources. One thing that stands out is the lack of Swedish players, considering that they've been the best team in the tournament. The other thing that stands out is that France has a whopping five of the top 20 players, the most of any country. France of course is not playing in these Olympics due to the fact that UEFA is limited to just three teams in the Olympics and also because UEFA uses the WWC results as its qualification process. France lost in the quarterfinals to eventual champion USA. Long list of names there, but almost none of them from the Olympic Final Four, other than the USA. Which makes me think either the list is wrong or else it just isn't relevant to the Olympics.
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Soccer
Aug 3, 2021 7:07:48 GMT -5
Post by bbg95 on Aug 3, 2021 7:07:48 GMT -5
Regarding the "best player in the world" discussion, I looked into that and found two lists that are relatively recent. The first is from ESPN and was published in March. The second is from the Guardian and was published in December of 2020. 21 players appeared in the top 25 of both lists (ESPN published a top 50, while the Guardian published a top 100--I didn't feel like going beyond the top 25 for each list). Here are their average rankings: Note: I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these rankings. These were the two lists that I found from reputable sources. One thing that stands out is the lack of Swedish players, considering that they've been the best team in the tournament. The other thing that stands out is that France has a whopping five of the top 20 players, the most of any country. France of course is not playing in these Olympics due to the fact that UEFA is limited to just three teams in the Olympics and also because UEFA uses the WWC results as its qualification process. France lost in the quarterfinals to eventual champion USA. Long list of names there, but almost none of them from the Olympic Final Four, other than the USA. Which makes me think either the list is wrong or else it just isn't relevant to the Olympics. Eh, I don't know about "wrong." Lists are inherently subjective of course. These are professional soccer writers, so I think they would have some idea of what they're talking about. Judging by what I saw on Reddit, Miedema and Kerr were the ones I saw mentioned most often as best in the world. Though of course, a player like Harder wouldn't be talked about as much during the Olympics because Denmark wasn't among the teams playing. I was just curious at the earlier suggestion from someone that Ertz was the best player in the world, as I don't think I saw a single other person say that on Reddit. But I have spent a grand total of zero seconds of my life watching women's club soccer (I don't watch men's club soccer either), so I have no opinion from firsthand knowledge.
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Post by WMegs55 on Aug 3, 2021 8:13:05 GMT -5
Alyssa Naeher is out for the bronze medal match. She has a hyperextended knee and bone contusion.
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Soccer
Aug 3, 2021 9:56:31 GMT -5
Post by jayj79 on Aug 3, 2021 9:56:31 GMT -5
I find it ironic that the penalty was scored by a Canadian who played at UCLA. Is our collegiate system simply paying foreign players (essentially that is what scholarships are) to train and develop so they can go home and beat the USA? I loved watching Fleming at UCLA and Mercario at Stanford, but it's ironic that they give us pleasure in college only to bring heartbreak to the USA team on the international stage. I don't observe this just in soccer, but also collegiate Track and Field seems to be the world's training ground. And linking this back to volleyball, Graudina is paid to come to the USA to play for USC, and beat Slaes four weeks ago and almost beat them in Pool play. UCLA paid the McNamara twins. Several other examples both in Beach and Indoor. are you suggesting that the NCAA bans foreigners (and/or individuals who can claim dual citizenship or whatever the qualification is to compete for other national teams) from competing in US collegiate athletics?
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Soccer
Aug 3, 2021 12:19:56 GMT -5
Post by stevehorn on Aug 3, 2021 12:19:56 GMT -5
I find it ironic that the penalty was scored by a Canadian who played at UCLA. Is our collegiate system simply paying foreign players (essentially that is what scholarships are) to train and develop so they can go home and beat the USA? I loved watching Fleming at UCLA and Mercario at Stanford, but it's ironic that they give us pleasure in college only to bring heartbreak to the USA team on the international stage. I don't observe this just in soccer, but also collegiate Track and Field seems to be the world's training ground. And linking this back to volleyball, Graudina is paid to come to the USA to play for USC, and beat Slaes four weeks ago and almost beat them in Pool play. UCLA paid the McNamara twins. Several other examples both in Beach and Indoor. are you suggesting that the NCAA bans foreigners (and/or individuals who can claim dual citizenship or whatever the qualification is to compete for other national teams) from competing in US collegiate athletics? My opinion is probably similar. I wouldn't propose a ban on foreigners, but I would be in favor of a limit on the amount of scholarships that can go to foreign students. This wouldn't be out of line with the rules for sports in many other countries. Many foreign pro leagues have limits on the number of foreign players. Don't know if these limits also apply to their "amateur" development teams, but I suspect they do officially or unofficially.
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Soccer
Aug 3, 2021 12:31:26 GMT -5
Post by donut on Aug 3, 2021 12:31:26 GMT -5
Long list of names there, but almost none of them from the Olympic Final Four, other than the USA. Which makes me think either the list is wrong or else it just isn't relevant to the Olympics. Eh, I don't know about "wrong." Lists are inherently subjective of course. These are professional soccer writers, so I think they would have some idea of what they're talking about. Judging by what I saw on Reddit, Miedema and Kerr were the ones I saw mentioned most often as best in the world. Though of course, a player like Harder wouldn't be talked about as much during the Olympics because Denmark wasn't among the teams playing. I was just curious at the earlier suggestion from someone that Ertz was the best player in the world, as I don't think I saw a single other person say that on Reddit. But I have spent a grand total of zero seconds of my life watching women's club soccer (I don't watch men's club soccer either), so I have no opinion from firsthand knowledge.I'm genuinely confused about what you're trying to do here, given the bold. Trying to challenge an opinion I gave using 2 subjective lists and Reddit? When you admittedly don't know anything about the sport? We can't even have a discussion about those lists (which I'm familiar with and stand by my position), since again, you have zero context.
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Soccer
Aug 3, 2021 12:31:36 GMT -5
Post by speegs13 on Aug 3, 2021 12:31:36 GMT -5
Is Tokyo the last hurrah for players like Rapinoe, Lloyd, and Morgan etc.? Or are they planning on going to the 2023 WC/2024 Olympics?
I don't follow women's soccer as much, so just curious as to what their plans were
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