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Post by bradk on Aug 17, 2021 13:21:43 GMT -5
Basically you have 2 events run by groups who want as many teams as possible to make the most money possible. AAU/JVA was created for various reasons, I wont get into that discussion now. They primarily had only worked with girls since there are so many teams. However lately they have made a large push to increase on the boys side. USAV and the SCVA dropped the ball, now AAU/JVA is trying to show how great that group is regardless of reasons for formation and have poached a large portion of the boys teams.
When in doubt follow the money it will lead to you the answer.
Lets just remember none of this going on has anything to do with the players or their families it is about large groups who can work a few weeks a year and make a yearly income similar to some people who run bid tournaments.
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Post by akbar on Aug 17, 2021 14:34:01 GMT -5
Could someone more knowledgeable than me please explain why there are 2 different National Championships? AAU national championships and USA volleyball BJNC? It seems competitive and therefore both are missing out. Do teams go to both? Or do most teams pick one over the other? I do not understand the dynamic of 2 different National Championships. Can someone with more background explain that to me? AAU is NOT a National Championship level tourney, especially for Boys. It may get there someday but we will see how significant the sabre rattling ends up. |
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Post by gtrich on Aug 17, 2021 14:46:18 GMT -5
Could someone more knowledgeable than me please explain why there are 2 different National Championships? AAU national championships and USA volleyball BJNC? It seems competitive and therefore both are missing out. Do teams go to both? Or do most teams pick one over the other? I do not understand the dynamic of 2 different National Championships. Can someone with more background explain that to me? This is for the boys side, the girls side is completely different. The GROSSLY oversimplified answer is that they are two different organizations. USAV's sole focus is on volleyball and the USA Volleyball National teams (hence the V in USAV). AAU is focused on youth sports and Boys Indoor volleyball is a rounding error when you look at everything they do. The AAU website says they have over 700,000 members nationwide and I would be willing to bet that less than 2000 of them are boys Indoor volleyball. USAV pretty much has the monopoly on the boys Indoor side and if you want to play the best teams in the country, you do it in the Open division at USAV Nationals. If you wanted to be seen by the top college coaches, you did it at USAV Nationals. On the other hand, AAU Nationals on the Boys side has been seen as a mid level tournament that is mainly attended by South East and East coast teams. If you wanted to compare the two using USAV's divisions, AAU Nationals is more of a "USA" level tournament. Again, that is GROSSLY oversimplified and you do see Open level teams at the tournament. We've played there for the past four years and it's mainly been FL, GA and Carolina teams with the occasional team from the mid-west and Puerto Rico. Because it runs a couple of weeks before USAV Nationals, some teams consider it a final warmup before USAV Nationals. The back to back travel from AAU to USAV is also why you don't see many non-South East teams at the tournament. You'll see some college coaches there, but not like at USAV Nationals where you are literally tripping over them. With all that said, if the SoCal teams follow through with their post from last week, and if other teams follow them to AAU Nationals, everything above goes out the window and you could see things reverse this year. Especially if USAV and AAU schedule their tournament during the same week (neither has announced their date yet, so no one knows). What happens in 2023 is anyone's guess. |
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Post by rollosideout on Aug 17, 2021 16:22:35 GMT -5
Could someone more knowledgeable than me please explain why there are 2 different National Championships? AAU national championships and USA volleyball BJNC? It seems competitive and therefore both are missing out. Do teams go to both? Or do most teams pick one over the other? I do not understand the dynamic of 2 different National Championships. Can someone with more background explain that to me? This is for the boys side, the girls side is completely different. The GROSSLY oversimplified answer is that they are two different organizations. USAV's sole focus is on volleyball and the USA Volleyball National teams (hence the V in USAV). AAU is focused on youth sports and Boys Indoor volleyball is a rounding error when you look at everything they do. The AAU website says they have over 700,000 members nationwide and I would be willing to bet that less than 2000 of them are boys Indoor volleyball. USAV pretty much has the monopoly on the boys Indoor side and if you want to play the best teams in the country, you do it in the Open division at USAV Nationals. If you wanted to be seen by the top college coaches, you did it at USAV Nationals. On the other hand, AAU Nationals on the Boys side has been seen as a mid level tournament that is mainly attended by South East and East coast teams. If you wanted to compare the two using USAV's divisions, AAU Nationals is more of a "USA" level tournament. Again, that is GROSSLY oversimplified and you do see Open level teams at the tournament. We've played there for the past four years and it's mainly been FL, GA and Carolina teams with the occasional team from the mid-west and Puerto Rico. Because it runs a couple of weeks before USAV Nationals, some teams consider it a final warmup before USAV Nationals. The back to back travel from AAU to USAV is also why you don't see many non-South East teams at the tournament. You'll see some college coaches there, but not like at USAV Nationals where you are literally tripping over them. With all that said, if the SoCal teams follow through with their post from last week, and if other teams follow them to AAU Nationals, everything above goes out the window and you could see things reverse this year. Especially if USAV and AAU schedule their tournament during the same week (neither has announced their date yet, so no one knows). What happens in 2023 is anyone's guess. Great summary, thanks. On the same note, there are 4 Open divisions for high school (15 - 18) and one club listed in that letter won three of the four Open National Championships (15, 16, 18) this year. If they indeed go AAU, do more clubs from other regions follow to play the best from last year or stay for a chance to win a USAV open division that may not include some of the more dominant Socal Clubs?? |
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Post by Badger Alum on Aug 18, 2021 0:56:52 GMT -5
Could someone more knowledgeable than me please explain why there are 2 different National Championships? AAU national championships and USA volleyball BJNC? It seems competitive and therefore both are missing out. Do teams go to both? Or do most teams pick one over the other? I do not understand the dynamic of 2 different National Championships. Can someone with more background explain that to me? This is for the boys side, the girls side is completely different. The GROSSLY oversimplified answer is that they are two different organizations. USAV's sole focus is on volleyball and the USA Volleyball National teams (hence the V in USAV). AAU is focused on youth sports and Boys Indoor volleyball is a rounding error when you look at everything they do. The AAU website says they have over 700,000 members nationwide and I would be willing to bet that less than 2000 of them are boys Indoor volleyball. USAV pretty much has the monopoly on the boys Indoor side and if you want to play the best teams in the country, you do it in the Open division at USAV Nationals. If you wanted to be seen by the top college coaches, you did it at USAV Nationals. On the other hand, AAU Nationals on the Boys side has been seen as a mid level tournament that is mainly attended by South East and East coast teams. If you wanted to compare the two using USAV's divisions, AAU Nationals is more of a "USA" level tournament. Again, that is GROSSLY oversimplified and you do see Open level teams at the tournament. We've played there for the past four years and it's mainly been FL, GA and Carolina teams with the occasional team from the mid-west and Puerto Rico. Because it runs a couple of weeks before USAV Nationals, some teams consider it a final warmup before USAV Nationals. The back to back travel from AAU to USAV is also why you don't see many non-South East teams at the tournament. You'll see some college coaches there, but not like at USAV Nationals where you are literally tripping over them. With all that said, if the SoCal teams follow through with their post from last week, and if other teams follow them to AAU Nationals, everything above goes out the window and you could see things reverse this year. Especially if USAV and AAU schedule their tournament during the same week (neither has announced their date yet, so no one knows). What happens in 2023 is anyone's guess. Thank you for the thorough answer. Sounds like AAU wants to break up the USAV monopoly on the boys side. |
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Post by wilbur on Aug 18, 2021 2:53:52 GMT -5
The AAU website says they have over 700,000 members nationwide and I would be willing to bet that less than 2000 of them are boys Indoor volleyball. So-Cal Cup was under AAU last year, there were around 160 teams in the last showcase tournament on the same weekend of the WCC which gutted that SCVA mainstay of a tourney. That is close to 2000 boys alone. That was put on by (guessing) primarily the same group that is spearheading the current movement. It is not a lot but it is not nothing for a first year attempt and shows they are capable of creating big shifts. (2021 USAV nationals had around 550 teams for reference). In addition to that tourney they had a full fall league plus a spring league and another smaller tourney in Jan that replaced the SCVA for most of the top teams, I think to fill a vacuum because SCVA failed to provide much of anything and appeared to focus on the girls during a period resources were thin due to COVID. All SCVA had on the boys side was a weak points series of one day events that was a fraction of what was previously a Southern California tradition of extremely competitive events in the past and they also put on the JBI in Vegas which had a good turnout and was a well run event. No Holiday Classic and a diminished WCC that had around 115 teams compared to 400 in 2019. The teams that played the 2021 WCC were the bottom half of the divisions for the most part. They also attempted to replace the AES results tracking system with a custom app. It wasn't great but not the worst first try. I don't think they are just rattling sabers. My guess is AAU is not driving this, they are just the best available service at the moment to get insurance and a national framework. |
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Post by bradk on Aug 18, 2021 11:24:31 GMT -5
I would disagree and say AAU/JVA is completely behind this. They have been working behind the scenes for a couple years now trying to work its way more into the boys market. They held a replacement West Coast Classic a few years ago and from what I heard it was a disaster. That ended the discussion a little bit. They then retooled and now are making another run at it. From what I can hear the So-Cal cup did go well and helped them for sure.
I know they are trying to run a large event in December in Detroit. Not sure how that location will be a draw and who will attend but they are certainly pushing their program and agenda.
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Post by coachdirector13 on Aug 18, 2021 12:45:38 GMT -5
Could someone more knowledgeable than me please explain why there are 2 different National Championships? AAU national championships and USA volleyball BJNC? It seems competitive and therefore both are missing out. Do teams go to both? Or do most teams pick one over the other? I do not understand the dynamic of 2 different National Championships. Can someone with more background explain that to me? AAU is NOT a National Championship level tourney, especially for Boys. It may get there someday but we will see how significant the sabre rattling ends up. I would definitely argue that for girls... A handful of the top girls programs do not attend any USAV event like Sports Performance, Munciana and others. |
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Post by wilbur on Aug 19, 2021 0:08:38 GMT -5
I would disagree and say AAU/JVA is completely behind this. They have been working behind the scenes for a couple years now trying to work its way more into the boys market. They held a replacement West Coast Classic a few years ago and from what I heard it was a disaster. That ended the discussion a little bit. They then retooled and now are making another run at it. From what I can hear the So-Cal cup did go well and helped them for sure. I know they are trying to run a large event in December in Detroit. Not sure how that location will be a draw and who will attend but they are certainly pushing their program and agenda. I have no idea about AAU in the rest of the country but in socal it feels like they are just loneing the vehicle and not driving. The 2018 WCC run by AAU was not great, the CDs handed the event to the AAU and from what I understand, AAU failed to deliver a quality event, probably due to lack of attention to detail and understanding their client's priorities. If they were so eager to steal the boys market from USAV, they would have stepped up on that opportunity. Item 5 in the OPs letter gives the impression CDs plan to help educate the AAU on what works and they expect AAU to be receptive. If they pull this off in 2022, they better hit it out of the park, if it falls anywhere near short of past USAV events with format, seeding, logistics or other, the future will not be great. It will be hard to pull off because I think the USAV boys nationals has been run well and they have been doing it for dozens of years |
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Post by coachdirector13 on Aug 19, 2021 10:05:39 GMT -5
I would disagree and say AAU/JVA is completely behind this. They have been working behind the scenes for a couple years now trying to work its way more into the boys market. They held a replacement West Coast Classic a few years ago and from what I heard it was a disaster. That ended the discussion a little bit. They then retooled and now are making another run at it. From what I can hear the So-Cal cup did go well and helped them for sure. I know they are trying to run a large event in December in Detroit. Not sure how that location will be a draw and who will attend but they are certainly pushing their program and agenda. I have no idea about AAU in the rest of the country but in socal it feels like they are just loneing the vehicle and not driving. The 2018 WCC run by AAU was not great, the CDs handed the event to the AAU and from what I understand, AAU failed to deliver a quality event, probably due to lack of attention to detail and understanding their client's priorities. If they were so eager to steal the boys market from USAV, they would have stepped up on that opportunity. Item 5 in the OPs letter gives the impression CDs plan to help educate the AAU on what works and they expect AAU to be receptive. If they pull this off in 2022, they better hit it out of the park, if it falls anywhere near short of past USAV events with format, seeding, logistics or other, the future will not be great. It will be hard to pull off because I think the USAV boys nationals has been run well and they have been doing it for dozens of years So I got started as an AAU girls coach. From the RUMORS I have heard, they are addressing every issue that people have with boys USAV. First, this year seeding was a mess. USAV usually goes off of the LAST QUALIFIER that teams attended and not take into account all of the other qualifiers. For instance, Milwaukee Sting 16-1s won the Winter Champs in January but was a 4 seed, and they struggled in the SCVA. They do not take into account total body of work whereas AAU has coaches submit their best finishes and assigns people to seed the event for their girls events. Usually AAU has a way more accurate seeding process with their girls than what you see with the boys. Another rumor I head was June 30-July 3rd which is a Thursday-Sunday. The fact that USAV does not do a Saturday-Saturday format and does a mid-week to mid-week makes it very difficult for families who have to take away from work and other things. The other extremely nice part about this is that every division will be on ONE WAVE. Think about the convenience for families with kids in multiple age groups. As a club director I would love nothing more than to be there only for four-five days compared to where I am there for nine days. Someone else mentioned the costs of attending these qualifiers. We are a Midwest club that is limited to just the two local qualifiers (Chicago and St. Louis) that tend to be the hardest to qualify at. WVC is the largest qualifier in the country and St. Louis picks up everyone who has not qualified yet. We keep expressing the interest of traveling but those costs are so expensive with flights, rental cars, etc. USAV runs it well because it has been the ONLY (not best). AAU does not need boys to be successful. But they obviously are doing something right to where they keep taking more and more USAV clubs from USAV to AAU on the girls side. |
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Post by uvcalumn on Aug 19, 2021 11:45:17 GMT -5
Could someone more knowledgeable than me please explain why there are 2 different National Championships? AAU national championships and USA volleyball BJNC? It seems competitive and therefore both are missing out. Do teams go to both? Or do most teams pick one over the other? I do not understand the dynamic of 2 different National Championships. Can someone with more background explain that to me? This is for the boys side, the girls side is completely different. The GROSSLY oversimplified answer is that they are two different organizations. USAV's sole focus is on volleyball and the USA Volleyball National teams (hence the V in USAV). AAU is focused on youth sports and Boys Indoor volleyball is a rounding error when you look at everything they do. The AAU website says they have over 700,000 members nationwide and I would be willing to bet that less than 2000 of them are boys Indoor volleyball. USAV pretty much has the monopoly on the boys Indoor side and if you want to play the best teams in the country, you do it in the Open division at USAV Nationals. If you wanted to be seen by the top college coaches, you did it at USAV Nationals. On the other hand, AAU Nationals on the Boys side has been seen as a mid level tournament that is mainly attended by South East and East coast teams. If you wanted to compare the two using USAV's divisions, AAU Nationals is more of a "USA" level tournament. Again, that is GROSSLY oversimplified and you do see Open level teams at the tournament. We've played there for the past four years and it's mainly been FL, GA and Carolina teams with the occasional team from the mid-west and Puerto Rico. Because it runs a couple of weeks before USAV Nationals, some teams consider it a final warmup before USAV Nationals. The back to back travel from AAU to USAV is also why you don't see many non-South East teams at the tournament. You'll see some college coaches there, but not like at USAV Nationals where you are literally tripping over them. With all that said, if the SoCal teams follow through with their post from last week, and if other teams follow them to AAU Nationals, everything above goes out the window and you could see things reverse this year. Especially if USAV and AAU schedule their tournament during the same week (neither has announced their date yet, so no one knows). What happens in 2023 is anyone's guess. General agreement. I coached 17s at both AAU Nationals and USAV BJNC this past year. there were 34ish teams at AAU and my team finished middle of the pack. There were some Open level Florida teams (Ocean Bay, 352) and some teams from the Northeast like Pace Boot and Sandlot (Pittsburg). But at USAV BJNC there were 32 open teams, 32 USA teams, and 50 club teams, and my group finished in Club Gold bracket. Teams from actually all over the country. If I were booking my team only one nationals (im just a coach I dont do any bookings) I would 1000% choose USAV BJNC. Also playing with Badens was annoying. |
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Post by coachdirector13 on Aug 25, 2021 12:30:12 GMT -5
It would be nice if either governing body would one out and say something. AAU needs to either confirm or deny the rumors and USAV needs to come out with some sort of announcement for BJNC. Going into September with no location is ridiculous.
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Post by yorktowne12 on Aug 26, 2021 13:53:55 GMT -5
AAU - Really doesn't need to announce anything but the exact dates. Which at least you know the location.
USA NATIONALS - VEGAS BOUND FOR BOYS! MARK IN THE BOOKS.
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Post by G$ on Aug 26, 2021 15:39:54 GMT -5
AAU - Really doesn't need to announce anything but the exact dates. Which at least you know the location. USA NATIONALS - VEGAS BOUND FOR BOYS! MARK IN THE BOOKS. Did an announcement come?? I cannot locate anywhere online, but that may be for a lack of trying. Hoping a dates and a location are finalized. |
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Post by coachdirector13 on Aug 27, 2021 8:57:32 GMT -5
AAU - Really doesn't need to announce anything but the exact dates. Which at least you know the location. USA NATIONALS - VEGAS BOUND FOR BOYS! MARK IN THE BOOKS. I have ZERO interest in attending Vegas. None. Vegas is only fun for adults and directors. It is a logistical nightmare, traveling when in the city is terrible, and let's be frank being in Vegas is just to please the SCVA programs which after talking with a few are still holding strong with AAU. Statistically speaking Vegas is their least attended USAV girls program because it is so out of reach from East Coast and Midwest programs. You wont see large club divisions like you saw in Kansas City. |
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