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Post by akbar on Sept 3, 2021 15:55:29 GMT -5
Very few. And those that did are wagged by their girls JVA bodies. So that agenda really wasn't generated by the boys outside of the SCVA Dude, Orlando in the summer is unbearable with that heat and humidity. It sucks But Dallas, Phoenix, Reno, and Vegas all have nicer weather, with more vacation friendly opportunities to offer? Yes, yes, yes and yes for last 3 with dry heat. Vacation friendly opportunities? If you are in the Open divison or serious about your team's performance does it matter? If you are talking about after the event? Absolutely I would take Reno, Phoenix and Vegas in a heart beat to travel to National Parks and incredible scenic destinations. Florida is awful in the summer. |
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Post by bradk on Sept 3, 2021 15:56:32 GMT -5
Everyone keeps bringing up the disrespect from USAV to the boys.
Yes SCVA has struggled I get that.
I am spoiled, my region and its leadership is excellent they communicate almost to the point of over communicating with us. As someone who has another full time job I find this very helpful and I do not have the same issues that other regions seem to be having. So it is a USAV issue or a Region issue?
What are people's main issues with USAV - Take the SCVA issues out of this right now?
Yes announcing BNJC informally with no formal announcement for 2022 is an issue, but what other problems are people having? I keep asking this question and I am never given answers?
You can not look too much at some of the changes to this year and be upset about them. The covid protocols were acceptable and not over bearing at all. So I ask again what are people's issues with USAV events?
As to the point about getting bids being hard. Yeah it is supposed to be hard. My 16's team this year went to 3 bid events did not earn a bid, ended up getting an at large and finished 13th in open. Open is for the best of the best teams. I feel lately that the top 36 teams the past 4 or so years have been the ones earning open bids. Yeah there is an exception every year but the day 1 easy pool for great teams no longer exist. Look back at results and see how many teams went undefeated in their opening pool, not many in Open.
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Post by coachdirector13 on Sept 3, 2021 16:20:42 GMT -5
Love those points. Only thing I tend to contest is I think the boys bid system is still super crappy. They wanted to put emphasis on competitive events so they want these super qualifiers with more bids rather than more qualifiers with less bids. I think it is extremely difficult to get a bid in the boys world which yes puts a great emphasis on receiving the bid itself but I think we all know a lot of teams do not get those bids because of the crappy tie breaker rule there fore do not receive the at large bids. Bad teams still get bids because of the qualifiers they attend and nobody else attends them (mainly BANE or Southwest bid recipients). If you have a really good team you can earn an Open Bid. Find a way and travel. From what could tell and heard, the 17s and 18s Open division was very competitive and multiple teams from all corners of of the USA could have punched into Gold. We've been down the "myopic" argument road before. While not perfect the Boys Bid system is working and the Boys game is expanding. Take a logitudinal look at the last 20 years and you will see pockets of good clubs have exploded in Florida, Carolinas, Ohio, Texas and now soon Indiana and Colorado. This is only going to expand. Okay few things wrong with this statement. First, there is such scarce pockets of volleyball in the country compared to girls. Main hubs are Chicago, central florida, and west coast. Teams not in that general area have to already do a lot of travel. Midwest programs not from Chicago usually go to both WVC and Dennis Lafata on top of what ever regional tournaments like Palos or the Midwest Boys Point Series. So to ask or expect families to travel more in areas where the game is still going is an arrogant expectation. WVC is the largest qualifier in the country and one of the earliest as well. With the exception of the 2021 qualifier, that even usually allocates bids to the top ten teams in the country. The next one is Dennis Lafata which is the last qualifier besides BANE (which is in a terrible location) and that event always gets random stragglers that didn’t qualify at Florida Fest, WVC, or SCVA making it a very difficult tournament to qualify at with only three bids usually allocated in a non COVID year. So use clubs like 630 who had a loaded 18s but couldn’t get a bid finished second in club because they couldn’t get an at large bid. Yes teams around the country get a bid because they attend laughable qualifiers to get one. The other part is club has NOTHING to do with the growth of the game in those states. It’s high school. Club just makes the athletes better. Indiana actually just has two clubs when three years ago they had four. Florida the sport is sanctioned so I would hope it continues to grow there. Not sure where your club is located but does not seem like you understand how much families and clubs spend on traveling already. Chasing qualifiers just adds to it all. |
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Post by GrowingTheGame14 on Sept 3, 2021 16:42:13 GMT -5
Everyone keeps bringing up the disrespect from USAV to the boys. Yes SCVA has struggled I get that. I am spoiled, my region and its leadership is excellent they communicate almost to the point of over communicating with us. As someone who has another full time job I find this very helpful and I do not have the same issues that other regions seem to be having. So it is a USAV issue or a Region issue? What are people's main issues with USAV - Take the SCVA issues out of this right now? Yes announcing BNJC informally with no formal announcement for 2022 is an issue, but what other problems are people having? I keep asking this question and I am never given answers? You can not look too much at some of the changes to this year and be upset about them. The covid protocols were acceptable and not over bearing at all. So I ask again what are people's issues with USAV events? As to the point about getting bids being hard. Yeah it is supposed to be hard. My 16's team this year went to 3 bid events did not earn a bid, ended up getting an at large and finished 13th in open. Open is for the best of the best teams. I feel lately that the top 36 teams the past 4 or so years have been the ones earning open bids. Yeah there is an exception every year but the day 1 easy pool for great teams no longer exist. Look back at results and see how many teams went undefeated in their opening pool, not many in Open. I would say your group was pretty special. They got better throughout the year but do you not feel like you are at a disadvantage with not having tryouts until November in your region? Did you feel you guys were a top 36 team prior to that national event? When we played you in Milwaukee I was shocked you had not had a bid. Yes getting a bid is tough. Our 16-1s this year did not receive a bid last year as 15s. If we would have had nationals may be an at large bid but that is because we were 7-1 at qualifiers just lost a three way tie. The regions in my opinion are a representation of USAV Volleyball. We have to be members of our region in order to participate in USAV events. But with being one of two clubs in our region we have no communication what so ever. I will be honest I receive more information from your region than I do our own! lol. Why would I want to invest in my region when they are seeming to show no real investment back to us? Towards USAV directly I think their bid allocation is ridiculous. There can be a better process, or they need to require all qualifiers to be from December-February so that the at-large bid process can be better plan and communicated. Our 17s received an at large USA bid a week before competition. CoachDirector hit it the nail on the head about WVC and Dennis Lafata. We tried sending our teams out to other qualifiers like BANE and East Coast and ran into the same problem out there, plus extremely tough travel arrangements to both areas. USA also has a terrible seeding system for Nationals. They use finishes based off of your last qualifier you participated in. For instance, Milwaukee Sting won WVC, struggled in Dennis Lafata and SCVA, became a fourth seed in a pool but still made it to the gold bracket. There is no collective information that they would take. Then you get pools of death that really hinder the ability of people to go out and compete. For instance, my pool was A4 (Finished Final Four), 630 (Finished 2nd), Milwaukee Sting (Lost to 630 in the quarters), us, then a couple of other teams. I am not saying we were gold bracket material but this was a pool of death that was terribly seeded. To add to it all our third day of play was Vaqueros and Team Rockstar. We later on beat Outrigger, Ocean Bay (who in the bronze had one loss because of a Tie breaker to ADVANCE to the GOLD BRACKET), and lost to SCVC in the Bronze finals. Our finish was way lower than what I had felt our team really was. To add to it all, the removal of the tie-breaker is such a buzz kill. I get it, they want to keep things on time and prevent long days at the CC. But come on. Ocean Bay lost by two in both sets but because they didn't win a set they were knocked out of contention for a gold bracket appearance. They would have been better off winning one set then losing 25-0 to be considered for first or second. If you are going to advertise a National Championship and you have a situation like that, tie breakers need to return. AAU has tie-breakers and then the no bid process is a plus as well. Let clubs make the wrong decision and register their teams for open. They do it already at the qualifiers. That is for them at the end of the day to live with with their families. |
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Post by GrowingTheGame14 on Sept 3, 2021 16:44:33 GMT -5
But Dallas, Phoenix, Reno, and Vegas all have nicer weather, with more vacation friendly opportunities to offer? Yes, yes, yes and yes for last 3 with dry heat. Vacation friendly opportunities? If you are in the Open divison or serious about your team's performance does it matter? If you are talking about after the event? Absolutely I would take Reno, Phoenix and Vegas in a heart beat to travel to National Parks and incredible scenic destinations. Florida is awful in the summer. A lot of clubs use Nationals a celebration of the end of the season. Even those contending for National championships. Team dinners, may be a little excursions. When I played we finished top five back in 2009 when it was in Atlanta (WOULD LOVE TO GO BACK THERE). We did something as a team every night. Coke factory was awesome. We will remember those moments as a club and team then that top five finish. The only plus to Vegas is all of the late night food options. But you will get that in Orlando too. |
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Post by gtrich on Sept 3, 2021 17:30:34 GMT -5
Everyone keeps bringing up the disrespect from USAV to the boys. Yes SCVA has struggled I get that. I am spoiled, my region and its leadership is excellent they communicate almost to the point of over communicating with us. As someone who has another full time job I find this very helpful and I do not have the same issues that other regions seem to be having. So it is a USAV issue or a Region issue? What are people's main issues with USAV - Take the SCVA issues out of this right now? Yes announcing BNJC informally with no formal announcement for 2022 is an issue, but what other problems are people having? I keep asking this question and I am never given answers? You can not look too much at some of the changes to this year and be upset about them. The covid protocols were acceptable and not over bearing at all. So I ask again what are people's issues with USAV events? As to the point about getting bids being hard. Yeah it is supposed to be hard. My 16's team this year went to 3 bid events did not earn a bid, ended up getting an at large and finished 13th in open. Open is for the best of the best teams. I feel lately that the top 36 teams the past 4 or so years have been the ones earning open bids. Yeah there is an exception every year but the day 1 easy pool for great teams no longer exist. Look back at results and see how many teams went undefeated in their opening pool, not many in Open. I have two main issues with USAV and neither of them has to do with the arguments the group of SCVA teams are making about bids, bid tournaments, and the number of bids they can get without having to travel anywhere other than their single SCVA tournament (I fully admit that is a little passive-aggressive). Issue 1 - The right hand of USAV (Indoor) and the left hand of USAV (Beach) don't seem like they talk, let alone know the other exists. Until this year, how many times has USAV Beach and USAV Indoor scheduled on top of each other for things like Nationals and HP. It's kind of hard to go to USAV Beach Nationals if they hold it at the exact same time as Indoor HP. Or go to Beach HP if it's running at the same time as Indoor HP. USAV tries to squeeze 4 marquee boys events into July and they don't seem to realize the same kids are playing in both events. They finally made an effort this year to stop scheduling on top of each other. Although I would argue that had more to do with NTDP Indoor being a 5 day event and not the normal 10 day event. However, running a 5 day event on the west coast, followed up a few days later with an event on the east coast, followed up a few days later by an event back on the west coast doesn't work for most boys trying to play both sports or their parents that need to take a month off of work to attend back to back tournaments. Starting in mid-June or going into August would help out tremendously with all the over booking they are doing today. Issue 2 - HP/NTDP on both sides is a hot mess. Enough said. |
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Post by elder2022 on Sept 3, 2021 17:39:39 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes and yes for last 3 with dry heat. Vacation friendly opportunities? If you are in the Open divison or serious about your team's performance does it matter? If you are talking about after the event? Absolutely I would take Reno, Phoenix and Vegas in a heart beat to travel to National Parks and incredible scenic destinations. Florida is awful in the summer. A lot of clubs use Nationals a celebration of the end of the season. Even those contending for National championships. Team dinners, may be a little excursions. When I played we finished top five back in 2009 when it was in Atlanta (WOULD LOVE TO GO BACK THERE). We did something as a team every night. Coke factory was awesome. We will remember those moments as a club and team then that top five finish. The only plus to Vegas is all of the late night food options. But you will get that in Orlando too. I have no problem going to USAV nationals or AAU's, simply giving my personal experience of doing both tournaments. Akbar is obviously USAV or bust, dry heat in July is just as terrible as humid heat in Florida. I live in the midwest so don't accuse me of being from the South. Like I said before, only a handful of clubs go to nationals expecting to win a National championship, so outside attractions need to be taken into consideration as well. I agree National Parks are great but most kids want more. |
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Post by coachdirector13 on Sept 3, 2021 18:10:06 GMT -5
Man this thread got heated FAST. Lol
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Post by gtrich on Sept 3, 2021 22:43:36 GMT -5
People keep dumping on the Southwest tournament for being joke, but it only gives out 1 open bid per age group and depending on the number of teams, may give out 1 USA bid. So it's not like it's handing out a ton of bids every year to teams that are coming in last place at BJNC. This year they only gave the USA bid in the 18's and that team came in 19th at BJNC 18's USA.
Here's how the Southwest tournament teams used that single open bid at BJNC
14's - the bid trickled down to 2nd place bid because 1st place team already had a bid from Florida Fest
EXCEL 14 White(LS) - finished 20 out of 24 at BJNC
Last place was SCVC 14 Quiksilver(SC) who got an at large bid
15's - the bid trickled down to 2nd place because 1st place team already had a bid from Winter Championships
Orlando Gold 15 Black(FL) - tied for 33 out of 36 at BJNC
Last place was a tie between Cinci Attack 15 Black(OV) at large bid and Niagara Frontier 15 Gold(WE) bid from Molten can AM
16's - no trickle down
Kaizen Boys 16 Black(OK) - tied for 27th out of 36 at BJNC
Last place was a tie between OVC 16-1(OD) bid from BANE and Niagara Frontier 16 Gold(WE) bid from Molten can AM
17's - no trickle down
MVP ACADEMY SFL 17 BLACK(FL) - tied for 29th out of 36 at BJNC
Last place was a tie between Pinnacle 17-Whitt(SC) at large bid and Sky High Adidas B17-1(GL) bid from Gateway
18's - no trickle down
AJV Boys 18 adidas(LS) placed 25th out of 36 at BJNC
Last place was a tie between Coastal B18 Scott(OD) bid from BANE and The St. James 18 Boys(CH) bid from BANE
So at BJNC
3 at large bid placed last - 14's, 15's and 17's
3 BANE bids placed last - 16's and 18's(both last place teams in the 18's had BANE bids)
2 Molten Can AM bids placed last - 15's and 16's
1 Gateway bid placed last - 17's
Zero Southwest bid teams came in last. They didn't set the BJNC on fire, but they also didn't come in last in any division. You could argue that those teams should have been in USA instead of Open and I think that is a fair argument. However, I think you can say that about any team in Open that finishes lower than 16th place(bronze bracket or below and assuming you didn't get shafted with a bad pool on day 1). So unless you are going to cut the number of bids in each age group way down, or you are going to get rid of the at large bids, the single bid awarded at Southwest isn't going to make a difference when you need to get a field of 36 teams in Open or USA.
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Post by jackson5vb on Sept 4, 2021 7:28:32 GMT -5
Unless these clubs are not joining USAV at all & not playing in any USAV qualifiers, SCVA and that nasty witch Davenport will still get their dues money. I don't like her. She lies about every other brand (aau/jva), she schedules her events to try to squeeze out every other tournament. She makes up bogus drama about tourney directors and club directors that don't bow down at her feet. She lives pretty dang well and pulls a 6 figure salary by acting like a b***h. I don't really like USAV juniors events and their staff either. They got rid of Tom Pingel, the only good guy on their staff. Instead, they decided to keep Kristy Cox and no one really likes her. People are just nice to get because they think she can help them later on in some way. USAV keeps making terrible decisions. I hope USAV sees the error of their ways and makes some changes. Get rid of the terrible region bosses and letting them rule the roost.
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Post by bzzt on Sept 5, 2021 18:56:34 GMT -5
On another note, will the boys heading down to Florida for AAU Nationals be required to play with Badens? Or are the tournament organizers going to change it to Spirals?
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Post by yorktowne12 on Sept 5, 2021 21:32:58 GMT -5
They said they are working on the Molton ball for aau nationals!
However does that really even matter since almost every high school federation does not use the molton ball for high school!?
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Post by rogero1 on Sept 6, 2021 12:24:25 GMT -5
Unless these clubs are not joining USAV at all & not playing in any USAV qualifiers, SCVA and that nasty witch Davenport will still get their dues money. I don't like her. She lies about every other brand (aau/jva), she schedules her events to try to squeeze out every other tournament. She makes up bogus drama about tourney directors and club directors that don't bow down at her feet. She lives pretty dang well and pulls a 6 figure salary by acting like a b***h. I don't really like USAV juniors events and their staff either. They got rid of Tom Pingel, the only good guy on their staff. Instead, they decided to keep Kristy Cox and no one really likes her. People are just nice to get because they think she can help them later on in some way. USAV keeps making terrible decisions. I hope USAV sees the error of their ways and makes some changes. Get rid of the terrible region bosses and letting them rule the roost. Great Lakes has a new commissioner who used to be a boys club director, but we will see what happens here as the Palos Points Series director jumped over to JVA to run The Point Series in a new location under JVA. |
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