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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Mar 16, 2023 21:43:08 GMT -5
Utah said they aren't leaving. ASU said they aren't talking to the Big 12. And now Arizona who was supposed to be the most likely to go, says they are getting a deal in the Pac 12. If you believe them AT ALL (not mandatory) it now appears that the four corners to the Big 12 has been one big off-season click-bait scheme. That would leave us with Does Gonzaga join the Big 12 or Pac 10? Does San Deigo State join the Big 12 or Pac 10? What did the Pac 12 give up to juice their numbers? And what would it take for Oregon and/or Washington to go to the Big 10 before the end of the deal? Is it a possibility or are we actually done for a few years? It's insane that people think Washington would leave the PAC. Just never gonna happen. They just assume join up with CBCC or PSCC or some other community colleges then align with the Big. I'm going to just assume that you meant to say "just as soon."
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Post by horns1 on Mar 16, 2023 21:54:19 GMT -5
I wonder which schools the Big 12 really covet.
I don't think they "need" both Arizona schools; one would suffice.
Don't think they "need" Utah as they already have BYU.
Colorado was part of the original Big 12 before they bolted for the PAC; let bygones be bygones, or an eye for an eye?
I would think they'd love a school in California, but I think both Stanford and Cal believe the Big 12 is academically beneath them.
Maybe Washington and Oregon are at the top of their list; but, they won't be invited/offered unless they are willing to sign that long-term GOR and basically relinquish any dream they have of ever joining the B1G.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Mar 16, 2023 22:24:36 GMT -5
It's insane that people think Washington would leave the PAC. Just never gonna happen. They just assume join up with CBCC or PSCC or some other community colleges then align with the Big. Why wouldn’t Washington want to be in the Big Ten? By themselves or even with Oregon? No, they're a West Coast school. They're not going to sell their "Olympic" sports' athletes "down the river" like USC and UCLA did. That doesn't mean they might not be open to joining a "Pacific" Division in the 2B1G Conference (Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa), but the B1G has shown ZERO indication they're willing to go that far. As long as Stanford, Cal, Oregon, and Washington stick together, the Pac can survive and prosper (with SDSU and FSU, perhaps, taking up the "SoCal" slack, and/or they could add LBSU and Pepperdine for everything but football). I doubt the "Corner" schools are going to jump ship just to play in a bunch of "dust devil" towns in the Big 12, when they all now look west, not east, for recruits.
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Post by bbg95 on Mar 16, 2023 22:25:15 GMT -5
I wonder which schools the Big 12 really covet. I don't think they "need" both Arizona schools; one would suffice. Don't think they "need" Utah as they already have BYU. Colorado was part of the original Big 12 before they bolted for the PAC; let bygones be bygones, or an eye for an eye? I would think they'd love a school in California, but I think both Stanford and Cal believe the Big 12 is academically beneath them. Maybe Washington and Oregon are at the top of their list; but, they won't be invited/offered unless they are willing to sign that long-term GOR and basically relinquish any dream they have of ever joining the B1G. Pretty much agree with all this. I think they would take both Arizona schools if they insisted on coming together or not at all. Stanford and Cal are what's known as a bad culture fit for the rest of the Big 12, so I really don't think they'd be interested even if Stanford and Cal were. I think San Diego State would be a more realistic California school, but only in conjunction with, say, Arizona. I think Utah is not particularly valuable for the reason you mentioned. Not sure on Colorado. I suspect that they would probably be fairly high on the list, since there aren't any other Big 12 schools in Colorado, and they have a solid history. Overall, though, I don't think the Big 12 really needs to add anyone. If they can get Arizona and Colorado, great. If not, they'll be fine.
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 17, 2023 1:17:43 GMT -5
they're a West Coast school. They're not going to sell their "Olympic" sports' athletes "down the river" like USC and UCLA did. LOL. That's the way *I* feel about it, but I'm not at all sure that's the way the UW administration feels about it.
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Mar 17, 2023 7:48:14 GMT -5
The Big 12 is overloaded with former G5 teams. Five of them. It would make more sense for the top teams in both conferences to merge under the PAC 12 banner, which has always been the more prestigious of the two brands in the first place.
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Post by bbg95 on Mar 17, 2023 8:53:37 GMT -5
The Big 12 is overloaded with former G5 teams. Five of them. It would make more sense for the top teams in both conferences to merge under the PAC 12 banner, which has always been the more prestigious of the two brands in the first place. Lol. Zero percent chance that happens. The Big 12 has a media deal. The Pac-12 still needs to get one. And a lot of the Pac-12's "prestige" is walking out the door. USC and UCLA account for a lot of the titles that the self-proclaimed "conference of champions" prides itself on.
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Post by vbnerd on Mar 17, 2023 9:51:24 GMT -5
And a lot of the Pac-12's "prestige" is walking out the door. USC and UCLA account for a lot of the titles that the self-proclaimed "conference of champions" prides itself on. Did You Know!!! Stanford alone has 131 team national titles. The 12 members of the new Big 12 combined has 137. And if you want to say that Stanford wins a lot of championships in things people don't care about, you'd be right, but of the Big 12's titles, 19 of West Virginia's 20 championships are in rifle, and Houston has 16 in Men's Golf. You can argue that Oklahoma State's 34 wrestling titles are as significant as Stanford's 37 titles in men's and women's tennis but both Colorado and Washington have won CFB national titles more recently than any member of the new Big 12. I know, winning isn't everything, but to me it is certainly near the top of the list.
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Post by bbg95 on Mar 17, 2023 9:55:35 GMT -5
And a lot of the Pac-12's "prestige" is walking out the door. USC and UCLA account for a lot of the titles that the self-proclaimed "conference of champions" prides itself on. Did You Know!!! Stanford alone has 131 team national titles. The 12 members of the new Big 12 combined has 137. And if you want to say that Stanford wins a lot of championships in things people don't care about, you'd be right, but of the Big 12's titles, 19 of West Virginia's 20 championships are in rifle, and Houston has 16 in Men's Golf. You can argue that Oklahoma State's 34 wrestling titles are as significant as Stanford's 37 titles in men's and women's tennis but both Colorado and Washington have won CFB national titles more recently than any member of the new Big 12. I know, winning isn't everything, but to me it is certainly near the top of the list. They obviously still have Stanford. But USC and UCLA have both won a ton of the Pac-12's titles. I said nothing about the Big 12's titles. You're right that nobody really cares about Oklahoma State's wrestling titles. The Big 12 is currently the best conference in men's basketball, though. And they just sent a team to the CFP National Championship Game, and it was neither Texas nor Oklahoma. They're better in the main revenue sports at the moment. Edit: Also, Colorado's and Washington's half national titles in football are from 1990 and 1991. Yes, that is more recent than anyone in the new Big 12 (I believe BYU's consensus 1984 national title is the most recent one over there), but when it's 30+ years at this point for all of them, it's about the same.
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Mar 17, 2023 12:00:47 GMT -5
And a lot of the Pac-12's "prestige" is walking out the door. USC and UCLA account for a lot of the titles that the self-proclaimed "conference of champions" prides itself on. Did You Know!!! Stanford alone has 131 team national titles. The 12 members of the new Big 12 combined has 137. And if you want to say that Stanford wins a lot of championships in things people don't care about, you'd be right, but of the Big 12's titles, 19 of West Virginia's 20 championships are in rifle, and Houston has 16 in Men's Golf. You can argue that Oklahoma State's 34 wrestling titles are as significant as Stanford's 37 titles in men's and women's tennis but both Colorado and Washington have won CFB national titles more recently than any member of the new Big 12. I know, winning isn't everything, but to me it is certainly near the top of the list. I see your UCLA and USC, and raise you Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas A&M, Missouri and Colorado (who went to the PAC 12, btw).
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Post by tomclen on Mar 17, 2023 12:25:14 GMT -5
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 17, 2023 16:28:37 GMT -5
I don't care, really. I've been a fan of Washington and the PAC-8/10/12 my entire life. My parents went there (met there) and took me to football games there as a baby (kids having kids, pretty much). I've always thought of the Arizona schools as newcomers, much less Colorado and Utah. Titles are nice, but UCLA and USC can go F themselves for all I really care about it. I hope the rest of the PAC stays together, but if they don't, then life will go on.
I hope Washington doesn't walk away from all their traditions and go join some national conference, but if they do, I'll probably adjust to that.
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Post by ay2013 on Mar 17, 2023 16:49:36 GMT -5
I don't care, really. I've been a fan of Washington and the PAC-8/10/12 my entire life. My parents went there (met there) and took me to football games there as a baby (kids having kids, pretty much). I've always thought of the Arizona schools as newcomers, much less Colorado and Utah. Titles are nice, but UCLA and USC can go F themselves for all I really care about it. I hope the rest of the PAC stays together, but if they don't, then life will go on. I hope Washington doesn't walk away from all their traditions and go join some national conference, but if they do, I'll probably adjust to that. 100% agree. Personally, I don't REALLY care that much about college sports, sports in general really. We have REAL problems in this world, the fate of college sports teams is not among them. Most of my comments here are mostly for conversation and general posture. As a program, Washington is a huge state school in a growing region with tons of money. UW will be fine regardless of it is in a contracted Pac-12 (my preference) or in a bigger national conference.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Mar 18, 2023 13:19:28 GMT -5
they're a West Coast school. They're not going to sell their "Olympic" sports' athletes "down the river" like USC and UCLA did. LOL. That's the way *I* feel about it, but I'm not at all sure that's the way the UW administration feels about it. It's a "money grab" that subjects "Olympic" sports' student-athletes to unreasonable travel demands that can put their mental/physical health and academic performance at risk. If the B1G should invite Washington and Oregon to join the Big 18 (there is absolutely no indication they will), I would hope that the schools' administrations would balance money to be gained against student-athletes' quality of life concerns, and not simply sell off the latter for "filthy lucre". I think UW's administration would, but have some doubts about Oregon's...
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Post by blue-footedbooby on Mar 18, 2023 16:58:22 GMT -5
I can't think of a worse outcome. To me it would even be worse than the Shultz's Sonic debacle. Please say it ain't gonna happen. Not another "midwest outsider" screwing us over again. I assure you if Shultz would of been a public employee he would have had his goose cooked.
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