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Post by oldnewbie on Dec 20, 2021 12:34:53 GMT -5
I understand NCAA adopted rules that prohibit coaches from assigning exercise based punishments in practice (running suicides, stadium stairs push-ups etc.) This was a staple in gyms for losing drills or late/rules infractions…. I think this is softening players who already have generational issues thinking the world revolves around them….. That rule was to protect players from punitive coaches that don't know any better. The NCAA rule is what Wooden practiced in the 50's, 60's and 70's, and it didn't seem to make his teams soft. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Dec 20, 2021 12:42:53 GMT -5
Poll needs a "neither" option. I don't think players are soft or that coaches need to change. These may be Gen Z kids but they're not a monolith. Each player is a unique person, as is every coach. It's the mesh of personalities that's key - and that hasn't changed since the 70s. I agree, and it's been since long before the 70's. What is consistently true is that as coaches get older they lose touch with teenagers and it becomes much more difficult to connect with them. That leads to a sense that the new generation of players has changed, when really it is more the coach that has changed. The manifestation is typically either a coach whining about current players being soft or a coach saying that they need to change to adapt to the change in modern players, when in actuality if that coach could be teleported back in time 35 years or so but still at their current age, they wouldn't connect with the teenagers from that era any better. |
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Post by eyeroll2021 on Dec 20, 2021 12:47:03 GMT -5
Coaches. The Portal is here to stay.
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Post by macfan on Dec 20, 2021 12:59:44 GMT -5
It may be because of where we live and the kind of kids we are around, but I do think a lot of kids are soft and are also enabled by their parents. We live in an upper-middle class area and often times, when a player doesn't get her way or has a consequence she doesn't think she deserves, Mommy comes to the rescue. Mom or Dad will make a phone call or spend some time buttering up the coaches and then things fall into place for their little princess. Do some coaches go too far in their discipline/criticism? Absolutely. Some of them are brutal and disgusting, but we also are living in a world where a lot of kids don't develop coping skills because their parents get them out of everything or try to pave the road to be too smooth for them. Later in life, when these kids are held accountable, it turns into mental health problems. Mental health is a real thing and coaches can definitely add to the problem. There are some coaches that my kids have had that I would never want them playing for again, but if they can get through those experiences, they'll be more prepared for real life. I don't know. Each player/coach situation is unique. Sometimes, it's worth it to stick it out and learn from it, sometimes it isn't. But yes, I do think some kids are soft. Agree, well said! I remember watching a video/press conference of the South Carolina MBB coach talking about how kids haven’t changed, adults have changed. I have experienced much of what you talked about, parents preparing the path for their child, not the opposite or letting them experience slight discomfort or not getting what they want, exactly when they want it. Sometimes I think the parents are more outraged about the lack of playing time etc. than the kid themselves. I’ve often wondered, did these parents never play sports? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 13:01:47 GMT -5
Poll needs a "neither" option. I don't think players are soft or that coaches need to change. These may be Gen Z kids but they're not a monolith. Each player is a unique person, as is every coach. It's the mesh of personalities that's key - and that hasn't changed since the 70s. I agree, and it's been since long before the 70's. What is consistently true is that as coaches get older they lose touch with teenagers and it becomes much more difficult to connect with them. That leads to a sense that the new generation of players has changed, when really it is more the coach that has changed. The manifestation is typically either a coach whining about current players being soft or a coach saying that they need to change to adapt to the change in modern players, when in actuality if that coach could be teleported back in time 35 years or so but still at their current age, they wouldn't connect with the teenagers from that era any better. It’s both. Kids are softer these days in general(sure there are exceptions ) also there’s always gonna be coaches that abuse their power. Neither side will be completely fixed. That’s just life. The goal is to keep things within balance. |
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Post by pepperbrooks on Dec 20, 2021 13:06:11 GMT -5
Coaches need to adjust some, but not because players are soft. They're simply not willing to blindly do whatever a coach tells them, especially if it seems harmful physically or emotionally. Players have more rights than ever before. That does not mean you can't challenge them or hold them accountable or push them. But it does mean you can't just scream nonsense at a 19-22 - year-old and expect it to yield results or more dedication.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 13:08:11 GMT -5
Coaches need to adjust some, but not because players are soft. They're simply not willing to blindly do whatever a coach tells them, especially if it seems harmful physically or emotionally. Players have more rights than ever before. That does not mean you can't challenge them or hold them accountable or push them. But it does mean you can't just scream nonsense at a 19-22 - year-old and expect it to yield results or more dedication. What I’ve learned in anything in life if you give either side of something too much power it will inevitably be abused. A balance has to be found. You can apply it in some way to most things in life. It never good if republicans or democrats have all the power, it never good when players or coaches or owners have all the power in sports. Everything in life is about balance. Full power almost always leads to corruption and abuse |
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Post by oldnewbie on Dec 20, 2021 13:17:39 GMT -5
I agree, and it's been since long before the 70's. What is consistently true is that as coaches get older they lose touch with teenagers and it becomes much more difficult to connect with them. That leads to a sense that the new generation of players has changed, when really it is more the coach that has changed. The manifestation is typically either a coach whining about current players being soft or a coach saying that they need to change to adapt to the change in modern players, when in actuality if that coach could be teleported back in time 35 years or so but still at their current age, they wouldn't connect with the teenagers from that era any better. It’s both. Kids are softer these days in general(sure there are exceptions ) also there’s always gonna be coaches that abuse their power. Neither side will be completely fixed. That’s just life. The goal is to keep things within balance. I think your perspective has changed as you get older much more than kids have changed. Yes, there are generational differences, but the inability for someone your age to relate to teenagers (or young 20's) is universal and would have been just as true for you if you were your age in the 1950's as it is today. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Dec 20, 2021 13:26:59 GMT -5
Coaches need to adjust some, but not because players are soft. They're simply not willing to blindly do whatever a coach tells them, especially if it seems harmful physically or emotionally. Players have more rights than ever before. That does not mean you can't challenge them or hold them accountable or push them. But it does mean you can't just scream nonsense at a 19-22 - year-old and expect it to yield results or more dedication. What I’ve learned in anything in life if you give either side of something too much power it will inevitably be abused. A balance has to be found. You can apply it in some way to most things in life. It never good if republicans or democrats have all the power, it never good when players or coaches or owners have all the power in sports. Everything in life is about balance. Full power almost always leads to corruption and abuse How much power does a good literature professor have to wield over a student to motivate them to produce good work? Now imagine they are teaching a highly motivated group of extremely gifted students who competed for a spot in the class in the first place? Since when did it become status quo for coaches to employ abusive and punitive measures in their job of teaching athletes to perfect their craft? A good coach earns the respect of their players and the only real power they need is the power of the lineup. All the other punitive and demeaning BS is completely unnecessary for a good coach, and is abusive and causes harm. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 20, 2021 13:42:25 GMT -5
when in actuality if that coach could be teleported back in time 35 years or so but still at their current age, they wouldn't connect with the teenagers from that era any better. Maybe. But more likely they would connect just fine. People get imprinted by the time period when they grow up. Cultural referents change, and older adults often fall behind. Or they refuse to adopt the new culture (like me, not owning a smartphone). But 35 years earlier, the coach would have "known the lingo". He (or she) would not have to catch up to things like "Nobody uses Facebook anymore, we use TikTok" or whatever the hell it is that kids use these days. The coach might as well be using AOL Online. PEOPLE tend to be the same, but their cultural referents change. Like me, not understanding some things about my grandparents who grew up in the Great Depression years. When I was a kid, people generally speaking had one job for most of their lives. Now -- not so much anymore. People hop from college to college, from job to job, from field to field, and sometimes (either by choice or by economic necessity) take multiple jobs in multiple fields at the same time. That's what life is like for many college athletes right now, and coaches who feel entitled to recruit athletes one time and be done with it are not going to handle the current situation all that well. Just like in any relationship, you have to make sure you keep giving people a reason to want to stay in the relationship. When you start taking them for granted, that's when they walk away. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Dec 20, 2021 14:04:39 GMT -5
when in actuality if that coach could be teleported back in time 35 years or so but still at their current age, they wouldn't connect with the teenagers from that era any better. Maybe. But more likely they would connect just fine. People get imprinted by the time period when they grow up. Cultural referents change, and older adults often fall behind. Or they refuse to adopt the new culture (like me, not owning a smartphone). But 35 years earlier, the coach would have "known the lingo". He (or she) would not have to catch up to things like "Nobody uses Facebook anymore, we use TikTok" or whatever the hell it is that kids use these days. The coach might as well be using AOL Online. PEOPLE tend to be the same, but their cultural referents change. Like me, not understanding some things about my grandparents who grew up in the Great Depression years. When I was a kid, people generally speaking had one job for most of their lives. Now -- not so much anymore. People hop from college to college, from job to job, from field to field, and sometimes (either by choice or by economic necessity) take multiple jobs in multiple fields at the same time. That's what life is like for many college athletes right now, and coaches who feel entitled to recruit athletes one time and be done with it are not going to handle the current situation all that well. Just like in any relationship, you have to make sure you keep giving people a reason to want to stay in the relationship. When you start taking them for granted, that's when they walk away. Yeah, when I said transported back I gave the wrong message, because I really meant what you are saying, that if they were the age they are know but 35 years ago and had grown up in the previous generation. I still think there would be a good amount of disconnect simply based on age even if you could somehow teleport back to your own teenage era, but nothing as extreme as coaching 2 or 3 generations after your era when the lingo and communication styles and techs have changed, as well as the societal issues/fears (depression, WWII, cold war, Civil Rights, Vietnam, Iraq war, Afghanistan, Global Warming, BLM, etc.) Personally, I think the transfer portal is fantastic. I like the story told by an ex DI football player on the radio in LA, about how awesome his recruiter was to a P12 school and all the smoke that was blown up his ass. Then, on the first day of practice, that same coach looked at him with crazy eyes and literally gave out a maniacal laugh as he said "your ass is mine now, rook." Coaches were so used to being allowed to treat underclassman like complete crap because there was very little the player could do about it. Now the coaches have to treat the players at least somewhat fairly and with a modicum of respect or the players can bail out. I don't mind that at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 14:15:52 GMT -5
I did hear a few doozies at convention in Columbus. If the way you run your team results in a bunch of transfers or kids going to the administration, you should probably re evaluate your motivation tactics. If you can't retain quality staff it's time to look in the mirror. Nobody should have to put up with an abusive environment.
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Post by rickfromreddeer on Dec 20, 2021 14:17:27 GMT -5
Most kids are soft and entitled because their parents allowed them to get away with it. It won't suit them well when they hop into the real world and crying that "it's unfair" won't help them advance in their careers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 14:21:46 GMT -5
What I’ve learned in anything in life if you give either side of something too much power it will inevitably be abused. A balance has to be found. You can apply it in some way to most things in life. It never good if republicans or democrats have all the power, it never good when players or coaches or owners have all the power in sports. Everything in life is about balance. Full power almost always leads to corruption and abuse How much power does a good literature professor have to wield over a student to motivate them to produce good work? Now imagine they are teaching a highly motivated group of extremely gifted students who competed for a spot in the class in the first place? Since when did it become status quo for coaches to employ abusive and punitive measures in their job of teaching athletes to perfect their craft? A good coach earns the respect of their players and the only real power they need is the power of the lineup. All the other punitive and demeaning BS is completely unnecessary for a good coach, and is abusive and causes harm. I get most of what you are saying and I’m not for abuse but there has to be discipline. Otherwise people just do whatever the hell they want when there’s no consequences. The question comes down to what each individual sees as abuse vs discipline. What we need is transparency. Everything that can and can’t be done needs to be written down for everyone to see and then it’s each individuals choice weather they want to adhere to those rules. If those rules are broken people need to be held accountable otherwise the same thing will happen over and over. So I guess in essence it’s setting a standard and holding people who choose to accept that standard accountable if they break it. I don’t think actually standards are the problem right now. It’s the transparency of holding people accountable who arnt adhering to those standards. Everyone from politicians to corporations to sports establishments to individuals say we’re about this and this and this but then their actions complete contradict that and no one’s held accountable cause everyone is the victim these days. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Dec 20, 2021 15:32:21 GMT -5
How much power does a good literature professor have to wield over a student to motivate them to produce good work? Now imagine they are teaching a highly motivated group of extremely gifted students who competed for a spot in the class in the first place? Since when did it become status quo for coaches to employ abusive and punitive measures in their job of teaching athletes to perfect their craft? A good coach earns the respect of their players and the only real power they need is the power of the lineup. All the other punitive and demeaning BS is completely unnecessary for a good coach, and is abusive and causes harm. I get most of what you are saying and I’m not for abuse but there has to be discipline. Otherwise people just do whatever the hell they want when there’s no consequences. The question comes down to what each individual sees as abuse vs discipline. What we need is transparency. Everything that can and can’t be done needs to be written down for everyone to see and then it’s each individuals choice weather they want to adhere to those rules. If those rules are broken people need to be held accountable otherwise the same thing will happen over and over. So I guess in essence it’s setting a standard and holding people who choose to accept that standard accountable if they break it. I don’t think actually standards are the problem right now. It’s the transparency of holding people accountable who arnt adhering to those standards. Everyone from politicians to corporations to sports establishments to individuals say we’re about this and this and this but then their actions complete contradict that and no one’s held accountable cause everyone is the victim these days. I get what you are saying as well, and I totally get what you are saying in a power-sharing environment like politics where you want some balance between the parties to check each other. My point goes towards every other form of teaching at a university and why is teaching athletes so wildly different? If someone misses a math problem and just doesn't get it, you try to find another way to teach them that they will understand, you don't send them out to do winds prints until they can solve that partial differential. The young VB players I know are intensely focused and have an incredible inner drive to compete and to get better. I guess for me it comes down to what do you really mean by discipline? Are we talking about being late to practice, mouthing off to a coach, being disrespectful to another player or sleeping during film? That requires one type of punishment. I'm thinking more of "I told you to drop your hand, you didn't and she hit the ball right by you again. Get on the line and run". To me that is a sign of poor teaching, is lazy coaching and is never OK. |
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