|
|
Post by memorybankrupt on Jul 6, 2022 0:23:50 GMT -5
Agree. One of the biggest reasons Karch’s team won Olympic gold last year and the 2012 team lost that gold is the comradery and the lack of. My only disagreement here is we lost 2012 because of “kumbaya” or whatever you want to call it. We win that match 2 out of 3 times (or whatever “best of” you want to use). We were the much better team. Jacque had a surprisingly monster match, and a few other things didn’t fall in USA’s favor, but we were the best team in London. Sometimes the better team just doesn’t win. That’s not to say if we won gold we wouldn’t have seen the “shift” though. I think USA lost in 2012 for various reasons. IMO Glass should have been on the roster as a reasonable backup to Berg. And there is something to teammates being able to support each other in the biggest moments. Our non-Logan Tom pin hitters were panicking and no one could reel them back in. Not saying Logan needed to do that, but that role was lacking. That Team USA squad also lost clutch matches in the World Cup if if I remember correctly. Gotta address those demons or they'll just come back at the worst time. But I think Brazil basically played lights out with nothing to lose after surviving their quarterfinals and get thrashed by the US in set one of the Gold Medal match. |
|
|
|
Post by donut on Jul 6, 2022 0:46:08 GMT -5
My only disagreement here is we lost 2012 because of “kumbaya” or whatever you want to call it. We win that match 2 out of 3 times (or whatever “best of” you want to use). We were the much better team. Jacque had a surprisingly monster match, and a few other things didn’t fall in USA’s favor, but we were the best team in London. Sometimes the better team just doesn’t win. That’s not to say if we won gold we wouldn’t have seen the “shift” though. I think USA lost in 2012 for various reasons. IMO Glass should have been on the roster as a reasonable backup to Berg. Yeah, it was a mistake not to bring Glass or Bown. I suppose that was Berg's role as captain? Also, Bown would have been a great on-court personality presence. I've never understood/agreed with the "panicking" narrative though. I think Larson should have been subbed back in after Hodge wasn't doing much offensively -- Larson was spectacular in pool play against Brazil, and had a great match against them in the 2011 World Cup. Also, don't think it's pointed out enough that maybe our players "panicked" (if that's the word we're going to use) because of youth! I mean, 5 of our 6 starting hitters graduated in 2008 or 2009. First Olympic gold medal match is scary -- Hugh invested heavily in the younger players, which generally paid off short and long term, but that was obviously a risk. IIRC, the narrative was that the players had never been "pushed" like that before. Which I thought was strange. They won clutch matches against Italy and China in the World Cup, before getting swept by Japan to place second. Got swept by Germany too in the earlier rounds. But they improved so much from 2010 to 2011. Went from losing to Italy and Brazil in 4 sets in 2010, to beating both in 4 sets in 2011. Idk, we had plenty of experience "losing" that quad, I struggle with that explanation. |
|
|
|
Post by pittsburgh7717 on Jul 6, 2022 0:48:28 GMT -5
Just because the team found their groove and started winning doesn't mean the obsessive focus on Kumbuya isn't a problem. Of course we want the girls to like each other and enjoy playing together, but it still feels a bit forced... It's a problem for who, though, the fans or the players? This is kind of my point. Have any players complained? Complain and risk getting blackballed from the National Team?  Come on... |
|
|
|
Post by donut on Jul 6, 2022 1:22:06 GMT -5
My only disagreement here is we lost 2012 because of “kumbaya” or whatever you want to call it. We win that match 2 out of 3 times (or whatever “best of” you want to use). We were the much better team. Jacque had a surprisingly monster match, and a few other things didn’t fall in USA’s favor, but we were the best team in London. Sometimes the better team just doesn’t win. That’s not to say if we won gold we wouldn’t have seen the “shift” though. Yes to all of this. I know it's unrealistic and impossible (with player overlap), but it would be interesting to see H2H matches between USA 2012, 2016, and 2021. I'm definitely not confident in saying that 2021 was the best USA team of recent history despite their absolute domination of the Knockout rounds destroying DR, Serbia, and Brazil. That's fun to think about! I think I'd go 2012 > 2021 > 2016? And I'll assume we're looking at line-ups going into the games (i.e. Foluke is healthy, JT is healthy, etc.). It's close though! I give the edge to 2012 because Hooker was just that good. Also because USA's best 2 OHs ever were on the floor together, and Berg to Foluke was magic. Harmotto was also definitely at her peak around that time. Biggest issue with 2012 was Davis, and I love Berg, but you can't overlook her blocking liability. And then honestly the difference between 2021 and 2016, for me, is the opposite position. I give Glass the edge in 2016 (but I also love Glass, so might be biased), and the OHs the edge in 2016 too (surprisingly). Our OHs in 2021 were passing at an insane level, but I think we forget that MBH's offensive in 2021 was pretty poor. If 2016 USA ran the system we used in 2021, I think it would change things too. But yeah, fun thought exercise! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2022 1:45:28 GMT -5
It's a problem for who, though, the fans or the players? This is kind of my point. Have any players complained? Complain and risk getting blackballed from the National Team?  Come on... I know this has been assumed by many, and I've joked about it in the past, but, seriously, are there any receipts to validate this statement? |
|
|
|
Post by northwoods on Jul 6, 2022 5:06:11 GMT -5
It's a problem for who, though, the fans or the players? This is kind of my point. Have any players complained? Complain and risk getting blackballed from the National Team? Come on... I think it is more, check your self-absorbed Diva attitude at the door. Treat everyone in the gym with respect because everyone on these extended rosters is damn good. Yeah, don’t complain, rather communicate your needs positively with your team on the floor and coaching staff. Everyone is there to help, but no one is there to serve just you. I think it’s a pretty healthy, productive environment to improve in. |
|
|
|
Post by jwvolley on Jul 6, 2022 8:03:14 GMT -5
Kumbaya is just no fun. All hail the 2012 quad.  Not Tom walking away annoyed lmao |
|
|
|
Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jul 6, 2022 9:51:30 GMT -5
Yes to all of this. I know it's unrealistic and impossible (with player overlap), but it would be interesting to see H2H matches between USA 2012, 2016, and 2021. I'm definitely not confident in saying that 2021 was the best USA team of recent history despite their absolute domination of the Knockout rounds destroying DR, Serbia, and Brazil. That's fun to think about! I think I'd go 2012 > 2021 > 2016? And I'll assume we're looking at line-ups going into the games (i.e. Foluke is healthy, JT is healthy, etc.). It's close though! I give the edge to 2012 because Hooker was just that good. Also because USA's best 2 OHs ever were on the floor together, and Berg to Foluke was magic. Harmotto was also definitely at her peak around that time. Biggest issue with 2012 was Davis, and I love Berg, but you can't overlook her blocking liability. And then honestly the difference between 2021 and 2016, for me, is the opposite position. I give Glass the edge in 2016 (but I also love Glass, so might be biased), and the OHs the edge in 2016 too (surprisingly). Our OHs in 2021 were passing at an insane level, but I think we forget that MBH's offensive in 2021 was pretty poor. If 2016 USA ran the system we used in 2021, I think it would change things too. But yeah, fun thought exercise! nah, 2016 ~= 2012 > 2021. the opposition just dropped even more. |
|
|
|
Post by c4ndlelight on Jul 6, 2022 9:59:58 GMT -5
Me gearing up for the latest discussion of comradery  iconic post No one can stop kumbaya. Everyone here is too much sissy. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2022 10:05:29 GMT -5
No one can stop kumbaya. Everyone here is too much sissy. So, I just did an image search, cause I was clueless... Glow's "Zoya the Destroya". |
|
|
|
Post by donut on Jul 6, 2022 10:53:28 GMT -5
nah, 2016 ~= 2012 > 2021. the opposition just dropped even more. 2016 on the same level as 2012? With Murphy as starting opposite?  |
|
|
|
Post by donut on Jul 6, 2022 11:56:07 GMT -5
No one can stop kumbaya. Everyone here is too much sissy. So, I just did an image search, cause I was clueless... Glow's "Zoya the Destroya".  (fantastic show everyone should watch) |
|
|
|
Post by chatchu-off moksri on Jul 6, 2022 12:18:24 GMT -5
Random thought but I do think about how good Karsta Lowe could have been, had she not taken a break to get that architecture degree at USC.
|
|
|
|
Post by jay on Jul 6, 2022 12:47:52 GMT -5
The original source of the Karch's Kumbaya meme was a response to his clumsy handling of the Logan Tom dismissal from the NT and then the racist debacle of the Hooker imbroglio. He is lucky no journalist ever took time to reveal the inner story on that mess. It was a way of mocking him for the excuses he and his apparatchiks' made for his leadership decisions. Forgotten but not forgiven by many who over time have just moved on. Like our Founding Fathers his legacy will be known for his successes and not his failures.
|
|
|
|
Post by liberovb10 on Jul 6, 2022 14:13:10 GMT -5
Random thought but I do think about how good Karsta Lowe could have been, had she not taken a break to get that architecture degree at USC. I have that same thought. Had she stuck with it, i could have seen JT and KL on that olympic roster. No matter what, JT was going to make the olympics with how lights out she’s been since her National Team debut. What i don’t get about Karsta is her constant indecision about volleyball. She quits after the bronze to finish her degree (which congrats to her, an Architecture degree isn’t easy), but she comes back with a bit of slump, quits pro after not making Tokyo and essentially says she’s done but then goes to AU then shortly after to Puerto Rico and just signed with JT Marvelous (Annie’s old team). Is her goal to keep playing/playing sporadically? i can’t see Karch bringing her back because he was hesitant to do so before the Tokyo quad |
|
