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Post by volleyguy on Nov 27, 2022 15:55:39 GMT -5
You do much better when you limit your words. another put-down, lol two can play that game. you do much better when you don't say anything! sheesh Oh, what a burn! |
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Post by Cubicle No More ... on Nov 27, 2022 15:57:27 GMT -5
in fairness, hawaii didn't technically help the conference RPI the past couple years. this year and last year, they had losing non-conference records (3-5). this year, despite the losing non-conference, hawaii scheduled so tough (with bonuses from pitt, san diego, usc as top 25 RPI teams, and even texas st as a top 50 team) that it boosted their own RPI (currently 40) to be on the better side of bubble. but anytime a team finishes the non-conference portion of the schedule with a losing record, it does no favors to the rest of the conference teams (for RPI purposes). Point taken. This is why doing a post-season RPI analysis is crucial and promoting that understanding a conference level is key, which is really my primary point. I know coaches think about rpi, but none of them are doing the type of detailed analysis that is really required. The conference tournament is simply like offering a lollipop to crying kids who lost. i mean, you can do all the analysis that you want, but at this point, i would think most, if not all, D1 coaches know what they need to do to schedule favorably for the RPI. one of the challenges for BW coaches is whether they have the budget to chase RPI-friendly schedules. the reality is that the RPI has a midwest and east coast bias, simply b/c there is a far greater pool of teams to schedule from (including a lot more teams who will have inflated win/loss records from weaker or mid-range conferences). the other component, besides scheduling, is that you have to just go out and win. if you look at teams at the top of the BW conference this year, like ucsb, cal poly and long beach, they actually had decent RPI schedules. however .... ucsb under-performed in the early season. they had a tournament in colorado against northern colorado, colorado st and north carolina. northern colorado just won the big sky. and csu/unc are usually pretty reliable for solid win/loss records. but ucsb went 0-3 at that tourney. and were 4-6 overall in the non-conference. cal poly couldn't pull off wins against pepperdine and washington, losing those matches in 5. they woulda been great signature wins. cp went 3-7 in the non-conference. beach fared better. they went 5-3 in the non-conference, and were on the brink of taking down oregon. the upper half of the conference need to keep scheduling like this. but also need to win. and for the bottom half - well, they just gotta play who they can schedule, and also win. they don't need to schedule tough. i don't care if they schedule cupcakes up and down their non-conference schedule. the wins will boost the conference RPI. |
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Post by Cubicle No More ... on Nov 27, 2022 16:10:19 GMT -5
lol, ok you 2 do your thing .... haha ...
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Nov 27, 2022 16:15:25 GMT -5
It’s actually really simple. Want a trip to the dance? Win the conference!
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2022 16:16:14 GMT -5
It’s actually really simple. Want a trip to the dance? Win the conference! or the BWCT it would seem soon or just win everything |
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Nov 27, 2022 16:21:42 GMT -5
It’s actually really simple. Want a trip to the dance? Win the conference! or the BWCT it would seem soon or just win everything No, win the regular season. Every team has the same opportunity. A tournament is for runner ups . That is why the runner up programs are supporting the idea. |
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Post by noblesol on Nov 27, 2022 16:22:01 GMT -5
Dumping the UCR WVB program, would be a signficant improvement to the conference. RPI so bad, teams took the RPI penalty of one position if they lost to them, which was in addition to the RPI bomb every team in the conference takes in having to play them twice. Someone has to be at the bottom, but there are plenty of teams in the nation that are worse (or can be worse) than UCR. I subscribe to the carrot AND stick approach. Even if the stick is just the equivalent of a verbal tongue lashing. Pointing out the impact of a 'UCR Deficit' on VT is way less than that, but maybe it's a start. To that end, here's just some facts to make it clear how bad UCR WVB has become, and what has to be overcome, and how a tournament does nothing to 'turnaround' the bottom dweller problem: UCR has no tournament hx. They've never made it. In 2022, they played only one NC opponent with 'recent'-2013 tournament hx. Most of their NC opponents had no tournament hx. UCR on UCR: Try to find their WVB media guide. They haven't put one online since 2018. UCR 2022 record: 4-25. Wins over UCSD, CSUN, Southern Utah (7-17; RPI 214), Bethune-Cookman (9-21; RPI 329). 2022 UCR RPI vs. 345 other DIV I teams: in the bottom 10%. Out of 32 DIV I conferences, only 14 had a team with RPI worse than UCR. Out of those 14 conferences, only 8 had more than one with RPI worse than UCR. UCR RPI Hx (adjusted): 2017- 222; 2018- 254; 2019- 282; 2021- 305; 2022- 310. The five year trend is down ⬇ The last two seasons, teams took a one position RPI penalty if they lost to UCR. A conference tournament isn't a carrot to get teams to perform/schedule better in the non-conference, it only makes sense for the perennial RPI bubble teams. Any tournament that would invite cellar dwellers, the teams near the RPI bubble likely get another RPI bomb on their resume. If cellar dwellers are tournament eligible, a tournament ceases to make RPI sense. And if a tournament is added, it should only be done with reduction in the number of regular conference season matches, otherwise potential NC match dates are lost. Not to mention the harm on the S-A with excessive matches and travel, and harm to team resumes of the bubble teams missing NC opportunities against NC top 50 teams. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2022 16:25:16 GMT -5
or the BWCT it would seem soon or just win everything No, win the regular season. Every team has the same opportunity. A tournament is for losers. That is why the losing programs are supporting the idea. how do you know Hawaii is not supporting it. are you saying Cal Poly is a losing program? they support it. seems they've won the conference a couple times recently I guess they should scuttle the BWCT MVB tournament as well. very simplistic arguments. heck, I'm ambivalent about it, it's a bad time of year to try to schedule travel to attend (unless it's in SoCal!), I just find it amusing some of these arguments about it. |
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Nov 27, 2022 16:27:11 GMT -5
No, win the regular season. Every team has the same opportunity. A tournament is for losers. That is why the losing programs are supporting the idea. how do you know Hawaii is not supporting it. are you saying Cal Poly is a losing program? they support it. seems they've won the conference a couple times recently I guess they should scuttle the BWCT MVB tournament as well. very simplistic arguments. heck, I'm ambivalent about it, it's a bad time of year to try to schedule travel to attend (unless it's in SoCal!), I just find it amusing some of these arguments about it. Why would Hawaii support an idea that doesn’t benefit then at all? And I changed the comment to runner ups (instead of losers). |
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Post by roy on Nov 27, 2022 16:31:32 GMT -5
i'm actually open to a conference tournament, but the regular season conference scheduling would have to be tweaked/reduced first, to make it work. for your point a) -- the challenge for hawaii finding teams to play in the last week of the non-conference was impacted by covid, but we're emerging from that, and teams are willing to travel (even great distances) again. hawaii's early season tournaments have consistently attracted solid teams wanting to make the trip and simultaneously boost their RPI. with the BW conference schedule ballooning to 20 matches, that has actually done more to hinder non-conference scheduling in that final week. there's only 8 non-conference allotments to play with now. if hawaii plays a 3 match tourney on the mainland, plus 3-match tourney at home .... that leaves just 2 matches to play with. not enough to fill another 3-match tourney at home. so, the only option is to invite one team to play a 2-match homestand in hawaii. which might not be as desireable for teams traveling all this way. for points b), c), d) -- i'm not entirely convinced a BW tourney will raise the profiles of the other BW teams. i guess being the "BW Champion" can do that a little. but the better way to raise your profile is to get a signature win or more in the non-conference. i don't think the men's and beach tourneys are great examples for why the women should hold a tournament. for the men, the BW is already one of (if not, the) premiere conference out there. whether they hold a tournament or not, their profiles are just fine. and for the beach, RPI is not a consideration in selection. but i will agree that the tourneys create excitement... but moreso for the fans. if we do a tourney for the women, let's reduce the number of conference matches, and allow the teams more chances to schedule in the non-conference. those are the matches that will allow teams to better raise their profiles and RPI ... Great points. A couple of things to note. I don't believe the tournament counts against the 28 days but the sheer number of conference games has hurt the Big West. I would agree that I would be in favor of a conference tournament if it would reduce the number of conference matches. Hawaii's RPI on Figstats dropped from 34 to 40 after playing CSUN. There should be a way to protect the top team's RPI, because we are not just talking about getting into the tournament, but also possibly being a top 32 team to get a favorable first round match up. This way, the California schools can try to avoid constantly playing the WCC in the first round and a Pac12 team in the second. If I recall correctly, the NCAA has changed the rule to 32 total matches instead of the 28 days of competition, so that alone should help Hawaii fill the 4th week of non-conference play. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2022 16:32:58 GMT -5
i'm actually open to a conference tournament, but the regular season conference scheduling would have to be tweaked/reduced first, to make it work. for your point a) -- the challenge for hawaii finding teams to play in the last week of the non-conference was impacted by covid, but we're emerging from that, and teams are willing to travel (even great distances) again. hawaii's early season tournaments have consistently attracted solid teams wanting to make the trip and simultaneously boost their RPI. with the BW conference schedule ballooning to 20 matches, that has actually done more to hinder non-conference scheduling in that final week. there's only 8 non-conference allotments to play with now. if hawaii plays a 3 match tourney on the mainland, plus 3-match tourney at home .... that leaves just 2 matches to play with. not enough to fill another 3-match tourney at home. so, the only option is to invite one team to play a 2-match homestand in hawaii. which might not be as desireable for teams traveling all this way. for points b), c), d) -- i'm not entirely convinced a BW tourney will raise the profiles of the other BW teams. i guess being the "BW Champion" can do that a little. but the better way to raise your profile is to get a signature win or more in the non-conference. i don't think the men's and beach tourneys are great examples for why the women should hold a tournament. for the men, the BW is already one of (if not, the) premiere conference out there. whether they hold a tournament or not, their profiles are just fine. and for the beach, RPI is not a consideration in selection. but i will agree that the tourneys create excitement... but moreso for the fans. if we do a tourney for the women, let's reduce the number of conference matches, and allow the teams more chances to schedule in the non-conference. those are the matches that will allow teams to better raise their profiles and RPI ... Great points. A couple of things to note. I don't believe the tournament counts against the 28 days but the sheer number of conference games has hurt the Big West. I would agree that I would be in favor of a conference tournament if it would reduce the number of conference matches. Hawaii's RPI on Figstats dropped from 34 to 40 after playing CSUN. There should be a way to protect the top team's RPI, because we are not just talking about getting into the tournament, but also possibly being a top 32 team to get a favorable first round match up. This way, the California schools can try to avoid constantly playing the WCC in the first round and a Pac12 team in the second. If I recall correctly, the NCAA has changed the rule to 32 total matches instead of the 28 days of competition, so that alone should help Hawaii fill the 4th week of non-conference play. it didn't help Hawaii this year or last year |
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Post by roy on Nov 27, 2022 16:37:55 GMT -5
it didn't help Hawaii this year or last year If you're referring to competition dates, I don't believe it takes affect until 2023. I could be mistaken, but I recall seeing a post on the rule change from this summer. |
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Post by noblesol on Nov 27, 2022 16:46:11 GMT -5
Great points. A couple of things to note. I don't believe the tournament counts against the 28 days but the sheer number of conference games has hurt the Big West. I would agree that I would be in favor of a conference tournament if it would reduce the number of conference matches. Hawaii's RPI on Figstats dropped from 34 to 40 after playing CSUN. There should be a way to protect the top team's RPI, because we are not just talking about getting into the tournament, but also possibly being a top 32 team to get a favorable first round match up. This way, the California schools can try to avoid constantly playing the WCC in the first round and a Pac12 team in the second. If I recall correctly, the NCAA has changed the rule to 32 total matches instead of the 28 days of competition, so that alone should help Hawaii fill the 4th week of non-conference play. it didn't help Hawaii this year or last year Explained at least partly if not primarily by covid impacts. A whole list of them. Only alleviated in part this current season. Going forward, Hawai'i likely returns to a normal scheduling. Just as the men's team schedule for 2023 has vastly improved, due to lessening of covid impacts and recent RPI performance, the same beneficial factors will help the WVB program in 2023. I see little stopping Hawai'i from having success at scheduling top 50 teams to play Hawai'i next season. And as always, Hawaii will sprinkle in a mix at home, usually those teams with Hawaii tournament hx, or with active Hawaii players on their roster. |
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Post by raian13 on Nov 27, 2022 16:50:29 GMT -5
I don’t like the idea of BWCT especially BW has been historically a one-bid tournament. You should not risk the top seeded team (who plays well during conference play) of losing in the tournament and miss the chance of post-season just because of a potentially one bad match. Losers don’t get to steal the top team’s thunder.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2022 16:53:27 GMT -5
it didn't help Hawaii this year or last year If you're referring to competition dates, I don't believe it takes affect until 2023. I could be mistaken, but I recall seeing a post on the rule change from this summer. that's not the entire point. the point is regardless of 28 or 32, getting matches scheduled that 4 th week has more to do with availability of teams, many of which don't want to travel (especially far) that last weekend, especiallly those in P5 conferences. |
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