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Post by BeachbytheBay on Dec 9, 2022 23:03:59 GMT -5
lol, you stated yourself, since Hawaii plays itself in regardless, there is no impact to them, so why care? NO, it doesn't necessarily benefit other teams specifically in one single season. these 'other' teams could be the #1 seed and lose in teh tournament. that's not a 'benefit' specific to that season,...... but OVERALL, it WILL increase bids slightly, so OVERALL on an average basis, it is BENEFICIAL to every team, because it INCREASES the likelihood of a bid for any team, less so for Hawaii, more so for others based on historical data. yes some team is gonna be a #1 seed at somepoint, not win the tournament, not get the at-large, and rue the tournament at that moment. overall though it benefits the conference and teams all these arguments about 'getting screwed out of bid' are defeatist The "slight" chance of either increasing the bids or the chances of a bid for another team pales in comparision to the detriment caused to a team that wins the regular season conference title, as clearly exemplified in the example of Long Beach in Men's Basketball. I don't consider that to be defeatist, I think it's punitive and counter-productive. Again, the better solution is look for ways to improve the over-all number of teams who are tournament eligible on the strength of RPI. And I do understand that's not an easy task with an obvious solution, but the Conference in general isn't even trying. the different in opinion is that the conference (or any conference) has ZERO leverage really to make teams better. I know that sounds odd. Some schools simply have to pick and choose their battles. In T&F sports, Long Beach for instance doesn't excel in cross-country/long distance because they target sprints and field events. it's not punitive if the rules are clear for the auto-bid, which they will be. If it increases 2 bids per decades, then is it worth it for the conference (which statistically on average flows to the teams)? does it 'diminish' the regular season championship? that's debatable. the team is the champion, does the conference risk not sending the 'best' team, that's possible, but outweight by sending more teams in the AGGREGATE, sending more teams is beneficial to teams, especially those on the bubble - hard to characterize that as punitive. let's face it if the top 6 teams, say were ranked 65, 78, 89, 100, 102, 125 and it's not a great year anyway, and if the #78 team won the regular season, is that really so punitive that one of those other teams got in? I don't see it that way, but that's my opinion. LB Men's basketball was rated about 160 last year, hardly something to get in a twist over that they got 'punished' by the Big West rules for auto-bid |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Dec 9, 2022 23:07:37 GMT -5
Cal Poly and UCSB are no longer in the same pair. But we do not know how the reduced matches will be selected for now. UCSD and Bakersfield are geographic outliers (i.e. isolated), as well as Davis, but that raises the issue of creating some unfavorable travel and schedule issues for a lot of teams, since the options otherwise are Tuesday matches, or a single opponent in a week. That is simply another difficulty that would seem to outweight the benefit. all the teams are in California, except for Hawaii. the travel can be managed. not rocket science. there's all sorts of options. yes travel is tougher for Davis and Hawaii, it already is. but for those two, they are simply going to have one less away game from a southern cal trip. in fact the year Hawaii doesn't play Davis, they don't have an awkward trip that year. |
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Post by wahinefan on Dec 9, 2022 23:20:58 GMT -5
why would it be funny? Beach fans aren't the ones with a persecution mentality on this subject. I doubt it would be of benefit to the Beach. Hawaii could be really good, so the tournament if so is pretty much irrelevent to Hawaii, like it historically would be. that's what funny. teams like Beach, SB, or Cal Poly are actually the ones to be more likely to be knocked out of bid as a #1 seed, yet, Hawaii dominates the complaining, lol. go figure the entire 1-bid discussion is just silly. overall it will SLIGHTLY increase bids, SLIGHTLY, which is a good thing for the conference. as I pointed out. Long Beach would have had 4 NCAA bids in MBB the last decade, but the Beach lost 4 BWCT title games. in MVB. Long Beach would also have had TWO more auto-bids, but Hawaii won the BWCTs!! seems Beach has a lot more historically been on the wrong side of the formula than Hawaii so far, yet it's all Hawaii fans (not all) who are moaning and graning about perceived slights left and right Well, obviously it would only be Hawaii fans somewhat askew over a tournament in WVB. They haven't been the the ones with either a long or short-term historical need for it. Until BG retired, Beach didn't really have a need for it either. I was somewhat surprised that Tyler was pro-tournament right off the bat. It seemed an early admission that the mighty had fallen. But, it was the right call for the Beach and where the program he was taking over was at. So, understandable. I see Beach getting back to competing for conference titles in WVB, but as you've fairly judged, Hawai'i will remain in their way. Competition will be good for both. The tournament will put a new twist on it. But, I don't agree, or, don't want to agree, that there is nothing to be done about strengthening the bottom of the Conference. If the top six in the conference want to incentivize the bottom, either with carrot or stick, they might have enough collective clout to motivate the programs at the bottom. Even if it's just public harassment. It's a matter of getting those schools to priotize their resources. If they don't have the resources, never will, or don't care to go through the work of obtaining them, then it's time for the rest of the schools to put in place the 'pruning' actions that remove the bottom from the equation. All Power 5 Conferences have consistent bottom feeding teams. The difference is, there is not much separation between the Top 2, or 3 Tier Teams. That is why teams in Power 5 Conferences when they play the bottom feeding teams in their conference does not hurt them much RPI wise. Not to mention having a very competitive non-conference schedule. That is what the BWC needs to strive for. The Conferences 2 and 3 Tier teams elevating their play, by bringing more talented players, via NLI and transfers, also scheduling a more competitive non-conference schedule. When the BWC 2nd and 3rd Tier Teams can close the ranks on the Top Tier Teams, that is when the BWC will once again be more then a 1 Bid Conference. |
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 9, 2022 23:24:05 GMT -5
UCSD and Bakersfield are geographic outliers (i.e. isolated), as well as Davis, but that raises the issue of creating some unfavorable travel and schedule issues for a lot of teams, since the options otherwise are Tuesday matches, or a single opponent in a week. That is simply another difficulty that would seem to outweight the benefit. all the teams are in California, except for Hawaii. the travel can be managed. not rocket science. there's all sorts of options. yes travel is tougher for Davis and Hawaii, it already is. but for those two, they are simply going to have one less away game from a southern cal trip. in fact the year Hawaii doesn't play Davis, they don't have an awkward trip that year. What I am suggesting is that it might make travel tougher for more teams other than Hawai'i and Davis (and Bakersfield) given that Cal Poly and UCSB are not pairs (and that was still a bit of a rough trip). It is not rocket science, but it's not all that easy either. The Conference can essentially make any rules (or recommendations) it wants to if the institutions' leadership want it, including things such as mandatory sport sponsorship (which it already does) or mandatory funding, etc. The Conference as a whole hasn't been too successful or effective in raising its profile or building its brand, but that's a result of choices and lack of leaderhip. |
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Post by beachgrad on Dec 9, 2022 23:41:50 GMT -5
In 2018 the BW had three tournament teams: Hawaii (12), UCSB (29) and Cal Poly (35). The next highest RPI was LBSU at 124 and there were three teams in the 200's. The conference was rated the 9th best that year. If the top teams play well they can be rewarded with at large bids even if the bottom is rather low. I believe Cal Poly and UCSB has the foundation to get better and LBSU looks to be moving in that direction. Really need UCI and UCD to make the move upward on a consistent basis. I like the coach at Fullerton but I do not think she will get the resources and I have no hope for the remaining schools, well maybe UCSD with time.
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Post by wahinefan on Dec 10, 2022 0:04:58 GMT -5
In 2018 the BW had three tournament teams: Hawaii (12), UCSB (29) and Cal Poly (35). The next highest RPI was LBSU at 124 and there were three teams in the 200's. The conference was rated the 9th best that year. If the top teams play well they can be rewarded with at large bids even if the bottom is rather low. I believe Cal Poly and UCSB has the foundation to get better and LBSU looks to be moving in that direction. Really need UCI and UCD to make the move upward on a consistent basis. I like the coach at Fullerton but I do not think she will get the resources and I have no hope for the remaining schools, well maybe UCSD with time. I agree, LBSU looks to be moving in the right direction, with their new Head Coach. The question for LBSU is, how long can they hold on to their New Head Coach. UCI and UCD need to join these Top Teams on a consistent basis, not just be 1 year wonder teams. I do like the jump Fullerton made this year. Hoping they can continue to improve, if they do, they will make the Conference that much stronger. Currently, the BWC is known as a Baseball Conference, but with the help of Hawaii and LBSU, it is starting to become a Dominant Men's Volleyball Conference. What the BWC Women's Volleyball teams need to do is take what the Men's Volleyball teams have started, and make Volleyball in the BWC a Dominant Coference once again. |
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 10, 2022 0:49:27 GMT -5
In 2018 the BW had three tournament teams: Hawaii (12), UCSB (29) and Cal Poly (35). The next highest RPI was LBSU at 124 and there were three teams in the 200's. The conference was rated the 9th best that year. If the top teams play well they can be rewarded with at large bids even if the bottom is rather low. I believe Cal Poly and UCSB has the foundation to get better and LBSU looks to be moving in that direction. Really need UCI and UCD to make the move upward on a consistent basis. I like the coach at Fullerton but I do not think she will get the resources and I have no hope for the remaining schools, well maybe UCSD with time. I agree, LBSU looks to be moving in the right direction, with their new Head Coach. The question for LBSU is, how long can they hold on to their New Head Coach. UCI and UCD need to join these Top Teams on a consistent basis, not just be 1 year wonder teams. I do like the jump Fullerton made this year. Hoping they can continue to improve, if they do, they will make the Conference that much stronger. Currently, the BWC is known as a Baseball Conference, but with the help of Hawaii and LBSU, it is starting to become a Dominant Men's Volleyball Conference. What the BWC Women's Volleyball teams need to do is take what the Men's Volleyball teams have started, and make Volleyball in the BWC a Dominant Coference once again. Men’s volleyball is not a good example to use as a barometer. There are too few teams, more good talent than available scholarships, and a small tournament field. |
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Post by staticb on Dec 10, 2022 2:27:27 GMT -5
the different in opinion is that the conference (or any conference) has ZERO leverage really to make teams better. I know that sounds odd. Some schools simply have to pick and choose their battles. In T&F sports, Long Beach for instance doesn't excel in cross-country/long distance because they target sprints and field events. Many conferences have scheduling and facilities requirements. (Like scheduling X% of home games, or not scheduling teams that had sub-300 RPI the season before, etc) The Big West (imho) almost always plays better volleyball than it's conference RPI--it never gets to show it because there soooo many road/bodybag/cheapy travel type games without any regards for conference RPI. |
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Post by jake on Dec 10, 2022 12:09:33 GMT -5
the different in opinion is that the conference (or any conference) has ZERO leverage really to make teams better. I know that sounds odd. Some schools simply have to pick and choose their battles. In T&F sports, Long Beach for instance doesn't excel in cross-country/long distance because they target sprints and field events. Many conferences have scheduling and facilities requirements. (Like scheduling X% of home games, or not scheduling teams that had sub-300 RPI the season before, etc) The Big West (imho) almost always plays better volleyball than it's conference RPI--it never gets to show it because there soooo many road/bodybag/cheapy travel type games without any regards for conference RPI. BWC coaches need to remember and schedule NC matches to build their RPI. Playing a tough NC schedule to be a better team for conference play is defeating the goal. When CAL POLY started the season 0-7,...well, it was all but the end that you work so hard to prepare. |
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Post by beachgrad on Dec 10, 2022 12:19:29 GMT -5
There is an art to developing an improved non conference schedule that will elevate the team's RPI. You still need to win the matches and not just play high RPI teams. Schedule tough matches in the 25-75 range and try to get some of them on your home court and you still need to win some give me matches. Poly played every preseason match on the road this year and it's hard to come out of that on the top. The UCR's of the conference just need to schedule teams they have a chance to beat because wins are all they need at this time in their development.
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Post by Logan Tom Fan on Dec 10, 2022 12:19:37 GMT -5
I like this addition, it gives the bottom dwelling teams some incentives to play for. I think some teams, when they see the Hawai'i's and Cal Poly's on their schedule, in their heads they feel they've already lost the game and in turn won't try. At least with this tourney, it gives them the incentive to want to play better and try harder so that they can get into those 4, 5, and 6 seeded spots. Something to fight for if they feel an outright Big West Championship is out of their hands, without a tourney. That in turn should raise the level of play, especially for said bottom dwelling teams.
For those top teams, it keeps them prepared (at least it should), knowing that just because you won the regular season, anything can happen in the tourney, so you have to be prepared. I think going into the NCAA tourney that's a good thing to lean back on, especially from the highs of if you've won your conference with no tourney (like how it has been these years).
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