|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Dec 9, 2022 21:41:45 GMT -5
I do not understand the fixation with focusing on the bottom of the conference. There is NOTHING one can do about it, other than bolting for another conference. Wan't to join the WAC? The Mtn West? (where teams are trying to wink wink at the Big12 or Pac-10/11?), the WCC? hey turn Hawaii into a Jesuit school and maybe the WCC will take Hawaii!!! Of course the tournament doesn't solve a 1 bid issue. It's designed to INCREASE competition and generate interest for the top schools!! that's good!! It DOES INCREASE the chances of multi-bid, whatever probability you want to give it. HOW IS THAT BAD!!! oh, it's bad because of some segment of Hawaii paranoia that xxyyzz is always 'out to get them' with every decision lol. yeah, it's fun poking fun, sorry, but it is funny at the knee-jerk reactions! solving the 1 bid issues has NOTHING to do with the bottom of the conference, it will be bad 1, 3, 5, 7 years from now like it has been. Solving the 1 bid issue rests pretty much on Beach, Cal Poly, SB making some incremental improvements to get over the hump. As it is, Cal Poly may really struggle next year. what I find interesting is that Hawaii pretty much takes care of itself, so why get all agitated. I'd be more concerned why Hawaii is straddling the 40/50 line vs. the 20/30 line of always getting in. That's Robyn and Hawaii's issue to solve just like it's Beach's issue to solve the Beach issues, etc. the tournament increases interest, bids (slightly), RPI (slightly).. It's a positive!! it's all pretty funny I'm a Hawai'i fan. Many years of season tickets, men and women volleyball. I've conversed with many other season ticket holders. None are 'mafia' like, none are 'paranoid'. Zealous yes, but not in a bad way. On VT, many who post here are the 1% of the 1%. It's just not a good assumption they're representative of the whole. And, as mentioned, I'm convinced some who post as Hawai'i fans are primarily trolls, reveling in the emotional froth they can create. But they pick on the Hawai'i threads, because, well, that's where the views are. I have hope a BWC WVB tournament will prove overall a benefit to the conference. But, next season it's likely to be more of a benefit to Beach than Hawaii, so there's that 'negative' from the Hawaii perspective. But, should Beach fail to pick up a bid next year, despite having a tournament chance on their home court, that could be 'funny'. why would it be funny? Beach fans aren't the ones with a persecution mentality on this subject. I doubt it would be of benefit to the Beach. Hawaii could be really good, so the tournament if so is pretty much irrelevent to Hawaii, like it historically would be. that's what funny. teams like Beach, SB, or Cal Poly are actually the ones to be more likely to be knocked out of bid as a #1 seed, yet, Hawaii dominates the complaining, lol. go figure the entire 1-bid discussion is just silly. overall it will SLIGHTLY increase bids, SLIGHTLY, which is a good thing for the conference. as I pointed out. Long Beach would have had 4 NCAA bids in MBB the last decade, but the Beach lost 4 BWCT title games. in MVB. Long Beach would also have had TWO more auto-bids, but Hawaii won the BWCTs!! seems Beach has a lot more historically been on the wrong side of the formula than Hawaii so far, yet it's all Hawaii fans (not all) who are moaning and graning about perceived slights left and right |
|
|
|
Post by noblesol on Dec 9, 2022 22:05:41 GMT -5
I'm a Hawai'i fan. Many years of season tickets, men and women volleyball. I've conversed with many other season ticket holders. None are 'mafia' like, none are 'paranoid'. Zealous yes, but not in a bad way. On VT, many who post here are the 1% of the 1%. It's just not a good assumption they're representative of the whole. And, as mentioned, I'm convinced some who post as Hawai'i fans are primarily trolls, reveling in the emotional froth they can create. But they pick on the Hawai'i threads, because, well, that's where the views are. I have hope a BWC WVB tournament will prove overall a benefit to the conference. But, next season it's likely to be more of a benefit to Beach than Hawaii, so there's that 'negative' from the Hawaii perspective. But, should Beach fail to pick up a bid next year, despite having a tournament chance on their home court, that could be 'funny'. why would it be funny? Beach fans aren't the ones with a persecution mentality on this subject. I doubt it would be of benefit to the Beach. Hawaii could be really good, so the tournament if so is pretty much irrelevent to Hawaii, like it historically would be. that's what funny. teams like Beach, SB, or Cal Poly are actually the ones to be more likely to be knocked out of bid as a #1 seed, yet, Hawaii dominates the complaining, lol. go figure the entire 1-bid discussion is just silly. overall it will SLIGHTLY increase bids, SLIGHTLY, which is a good thing for the conference. as I pointed out. Long Beach would have had 4 NCAA bids in MBB the last decade, but the Beach lost 4 BWCT title games. in MVB. Long Beach would also have had TWO more auto-bids, but Hawaii won the BWCTs!! seems Beach has a lot more historically been on the wrong side of the formula than Hawaii so far, yet it's all Hawaii fans (not all) who are moaning and graning about perceived slights left and right Well, obviously it would only be Hawaii fans somewhat askew over a tournament in WVB. They haven't been the the ones with either a long or short-term historical need for it. Until BG retired, Beach didn't really have a need for it either. I was somewhat surprised that Tyler was pro-tournament right off the bat. It seemed an early admission that the mighty had fallen. But, it was the right call for the Beach and where the program he was taking over was at. So, understandable. I see Beach getting back to competing for conference titles in WVB, but as you've fairly judged, Hawai'i will remain in their way. Competition will be good for both. The tournament will put a new twist on it. But, I don't agree, or, don't want to agree, that there is nothing to be done about strengthening the bottom of the Conference. If the top six in the conference want to incentivize the bottom, either with carrot or stick, they might have enough collective clout to motivate the programs at the bottom. Even if it's just public harassment. It's a matter of getting those schools to prioritize their resources. If they don't have the resources, never will, or don't care to go through the work of obtaining them, then it's time for the rest of the schools to put in place the 'pruning' actions that remove the bottom from the equation. |
|
|
|
Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Dec 9, 2022 22:07:36 GMT -5
I'm a Hawai'i fan. Many years of season tickets, men and women volleyball. I've conversed with many other season ticket holders. None are 'mafia' like, none are 'paranoid'. Zealous yes, but not in a bad way. On VT, many who post here are the 1% of the 1%. It's just not a good assumption they're representative of the whole. And, as mentioned, I'm convinced some who post as Hawai'i fans are primarily trolls, reveling in the emotional froth they can create. But they pick on the Hawai'i threads, because, well, that's where the views are. I have hope a BWC WVB tournament will prove overall a benefit to the conference. But, next season it's likely to be more of a benefit to Beach than Hawaii, so there's that 'negative' from the Hawaii perspective. But, should Beach fail to pick up a bid next year, despite having a tournament chance on their home court, that could be 'funny'. why would it be funny? Beach fans aren't the ones with a persecution mentality on this subject. I doubt it would be of benefit to the Beach. Hawaii could be really good, so the tournament if so is pretty much irrelevent to Hawaii, like it historically would be. that's what funny. teams like Beach, SB, or Cal Poly are actually the ones to be more likely to be knocked out of bid as a #1 seed, yet, Hawaii dominates the complaining, lol. go figure the entire 1-bid discussion is just silly. overall it will SLIGHTLY increase bids, SLIGHTLY, which is a good thing for the conference. as I pointed out. Long Beach would have had 4 NCAA bids in MBB the last decade, but the Beach lost 4 BWCT title games. in MVB. Long Beach would also have had TWO more auto-bids, but Hawaii won the BWCTs!! seems Beach has a lot more historically been on the wrong side of the formula than Hawaii so far, yet it's all Hawaii fans (not all) who are moaning and graning about perceived slights left and right Why do you insist on bringing other sports, such as Men’s Volleyball or Beach Volleyball into the discussion as a reference point? We’re talking about Women’s Volleyball here, and a new tournament format to determine the auto bid. Again, this is an idea that will benefit other teams and not Hawaii. Hawaii is the only team in the conference that plays itself into an at-large selection opportunity if they don’t win the conference, which they usually win anyway (check the Big West history book). All this tournament does is give teams who falter during the regular season another chance to win. And any conference tournament for the Big West the should be held at the home arena of the conference champion, not at the home arena of an also-ran. Why does the Big West want to reward teams who didn’t put in the work? And I don’t by the RPI angle. The Committee proved this year that end of season matches don’t matter. Unlike others, I’m not looking at what is best for the conference, only what is best for Hawaii. |
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Dec 9, 2022 22:11:14 GMT -5
It seems obvious that Beachbythebay wasn’t a forensics (debate) major in college. He literally handed the winning argument on a platter to the opposition. It’s like stabbing himself in the heart and saying “See, I’m not a killer!” LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by avid 2.0 on Dec 9, 2022 22:14:44 GMT -5
why would it be funny? Beach fans aren't the ones with a persecution mentality on this subject. I doubt it would be of benefit to the Beach. Hawaii could be really good, so the tournament if so is pretty much irrelevent to Hawaii, like it historically would be. that's what funny. teams like Beach, SB, or Cal Poly are actually the ones to be more likely to be knocked out of bid as a #1 seed, yet, Hawaii dominates the complaining, lol. go figure the entire 1-bid discussion is just silly. overall it will SLIGHTLY increase bids, SLIGHTLY, which is a good thing for the conference. as I pointed out. Long Beach would have had 4 NCAA bids in MBB the last decade, but the Beach lost 4 BWCT title games. in MVB. Long Beach would also have had TWO more auto-bids, but Hawaii won the BWCTs!! seems Beach has a lot more historically been on the wrong side of the formula than Hawaii so far, yet it's all Hawaii fans (not all) who are moaning and graning about perceived slights left and right And I don’t by the RPI angle. The Committee proved this year that end of season matches don’t matter. on the contrary... the only reason the BEast got two host seeds was because of the Big East tournament. |
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Dec 9, 2022 22:16:55 GMT -5
why would it be funny? Beach fans aren't the ones with a persecution mentality on this subject. I doubt it would be of benefit to the Beach. Hawaii could be really good, so the tournament if so is pretty much irrelevent to Hawaii, like it historically would be. that's what funny. teams like Beach, SB, or Cal Poly are actually the ones to be more likely to be knocked out of bid as a #1 seed, yet, Hawaii dominates the complaining, lol. go figure the entire 1-bid discussion is just silly. overall it will SLIGHTLY increase bids, SLIGHTLY, which is a good thing for the conference. as I pointed out. Long Beach would have had 4 NCAA bids in MBB the last decade, but the Beach lost 4 BWCT title games. in MVB. Long Beach would also have had TWO more auto-bids, but Hawaii won the BWCTs!! seems Beach has a lot more historically been on the wrong side of the formula than Hawaii so far, yet it's all Hawaii fans (not all) who are moaning and graning about perceived slights left and right Why do you insist on bringing other sports, such as Men’s Volleyball or Beach Volleyball into the discussion as a reference point? We’re talking about Women’s Volleyball here, and a new tournament format to determine the auto bid. Again, this is an idea that will benefit other teams and not Hawaii. Hawaii is the only team in the conference that plays itself into an at-large selection opportunity if they don’t win the conference, which they usually win anyway (check the Big West history book). All this tournament does is give teams who falter during the regular season another chance to win. And any conference tournament for the Big West the should be held at the home arena of the conference champion, not at the home arena of an also-ran. Why does the Big West want to reward teams who didn’t put in the work? And I don’t by the RPI angle. The Committee proved this year that end of season matches don’t matter. lol, you stated yourself, since Hawaii plays itself in regardless, there is no impact to them, so why care? NO, it doesn't necessarily benefit other teams specifically in one single season. these 'other' teams could be the #1 seed and lose in teh tournament. that's not a 'benefit' specific to that season,...... but OVERALL, it WILL increase bids slightly, so OVERALL on an average basis, it is BENEFICIAL to every team, because it INCREASES the likelihood of a bid for any team, less so for Hawaii, more so for others based on historical data. yes some team is gonna be a #1 seed at somepoint, not win the tournament, not get the at-large, and rue the tournament at that moment. overall though it benefits the conference and teams all these arguments about 'getting screwed out of bid' are defeatist |
|
|
|
Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Dec 9, 2022 22:17:37 GMT -5
And I don’t by the RPI angle. The Committee proved this year that end of season matches don’t matter. on the contrary... the only reason the BEast got two host seeds was because of the Big East tournament. The Big West is not the Big East. Did you see the RPI’s of the Big West teams this season? |
|
|
|
Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Dec 9, 2022 22:19:52 GMT -5
Why do you insist on bringing other sports, such as Men’s Volleyball or Beach Volleyball into the discussion as a reference point? We’re talking about Women’s Volleyball here, and a new tournament format to determine the auto bid. Again, this is an idea that will benefit other teams and not Hawaii. Hawaii is the only team in the conference that plays itself into an at-large selection opportunity if they don’t win the conference, which they usually win anyway (check the Big West history book). All this tournament does is give teams who falter during the regular season another chance to win. And any conference tournament for the Big West the should be held at the home arena of the conference champion, not at the home arena of an also-ran. Why does the Big West want to reward teams who didn’t put in the work? And I don’t by the RPI angle. The Committee proved this year that end of season matches don’t matter. lol, you stated yourself, since Hawaii plays itself in regardless, there is no impact to them, so why care? NO, it doesn't necessarily benefit other teams specifically in one single season. these 'other' teams could be the #1 seed and lose in teh tournament. that's not a 'benefit' specific to that season,...... but OVERALL, it WILL increase bids slightly, so OVERALL on an average basis, it is BENEFICIAL to every team, because it INCREASES the likelihood of a bid for any team, less so for Hawaii, more so for others based on historical data. yes some team is gonna be a #1 seed at somepoint, not win the tournament, not get the at-large, and rue the tournament at that moment. overall though it benefits the conference and teams all these arguments about 'getting screwed out of bid' are defeatist There is an impact to Hawaii because they’d have to play these tournament games, despite the results being the same. They would literally have to win a few more matches to get the same result. You support this idea because it’s a big benefit to the beach and every other Big West also-ran program that continue to fail at being better than Hawaii during the entire conference season. |
|
|
|
Post by avid 2.0 on Dec 9, 2022 22:29:59 GMT -5
on the contrary... the only reason the BEast got two host seeds was because of the Big East tournament. The Big West is not the Big East. Did you see the RPI’s of the Big West teams this season? I didn't say it was. You said end of season matches don't matter, I provided reason as to why they do. An unbalanced schedule (if done properly) benefits Hawaii. They don't have to play all of the bad teams twice. Meanwhile they pick up an extra game against a positive RPI opponent in the Big West tournament. That's what helps the Big East (specifically the tournament teams)... They get the RPI boosts from playing the good teams in the tournament instead of more bad teams in the regular season. |
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Dec 9, 2022 22:33:01 GMT -5
Why do you insist on bringing other sports, such as Men’s Volleyball or Beach Volleyball into the discussion as a reference point? We’re talking about Women’s Volleyball here, and a new tournament format to determine the auto bid. Again, this is an idea that will benefit other teams and not Hawaii. Hawaii is the only team in the conference that plays itself into an at-large selection opportunity if they don’t win the conference, which they usually win anyway (check the Big West history book). All this tournament does is give teams who falter during the regular season another chance to win. And any conference tournament for the Big West the should be held at the home arena of the conference champion, not at the home arena of an also-ran. Why does the Big West want to reward teams who didn’t put in the work? And I don’t by the RPI angle. The Committee proved this year that end of season matches don’t matter. lol, you stated yourself, since Hawaii plays itself in regardless, there is no impact to them, so why care? NO, it doesn't necessarily benefit other teams specifically in one single season. these 'other' teams could be the #1 seed and lose in teh tournament. that's not a 'benefit' specific to that season,...... but OVERALL, it WILL increase bids slightly, so OVERALL on an average basis, it is BENEFICIAL to every team, because it INCREASES the likelihood of a bid for any team, less so for Hawaii, more so for others based on historical data. yes some team is gonna be a #1 seed at somepoint, not win the tournament, not get the at-large, and rue the tournament at that moment. overall though it benefits the conference and teams all these arguments about 'getting screwed out of bid' are defeatist The "slight" chance of either increasing the bids or the chances of a bid for another team pales in comparision to the detriment caused to a team that wins the regular season conference title, as clearly exemplified in the example of Long Beach in Men's Basketball. I don't consider that to be defeatist, I think it's punitive and counter-productive. Again, the better solution is look for ways to improve the over-all number of teams who are tournament eligible on the strength of RPI. And I do understand that's not an easy task with an obvious solution, but the Conference in general isn't even trying. |
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Dec 9, 2022 22:35:24 GMT -5
The Big West is not the Big East. Did you see the RPI’s of the Big West teams this season? I didn't say it was. You said end of season matches don't matter, I provided reason as to why they do. An unbalanced schedule (if done properly) benefits Hawaii. They don't have to play all of the bad teams twice. Meanwhile they pick up an extra game against a positive RPI opponent in the Big West tournament. That's what helps the Big East (specifically the tournament teams)... They get the RPI boosts from playing the good teams in the tournament instead of more bad teams in the regular season. The problem with that is that the conference has pairs, so in one season, Hawai'i (or any other team) would miss playing Cal Poly and Santa Barbara, perenially top tier teams that help RPI. |
|
|
|
Post by beachgrad on Dec 9, 2022 22:37:24 GMT -5
I didn't say it was. You said end of season matches don't matter, I provided reason as to why they do. An unbalanced schedule (if done properly) benefits Hawaii. They don't have to play all of the bad teams twice. Meanwhile they pick up an extra game against a positive RPI opponent in the Big West tournament. That's what helps the Big East (specifically the tournament teams)... They get the RPI boosts from playing the good teams in the tournament instead of more bad teams in the regular season. The problem with that is that the conference has pairs, so in one season, Hawai'i (or any other team) would miss playing Cal Poly and Santa Barbara, perenially top tier teams that help RPI. Cal Poly and UCSB are no longer in the same pair. But we do not know how the reduced matches will be selected for now. |
|
|
|
Post by avid 2.0 on Dec 9, 2022 22:37:51 GMT -5
I didn't say it was. You said end of season matches don't matter, I provided reason as to why they do. An unbalanced schedule (if done properly) benefits Hawaii. They don't have to play all of the bad teams twice. Meanwhile they pick up an extra game against a positive RPI opponent in the Big West tournament. That's what helps the Big East (specifically the tournament teams)... They get the RPI boosts from playing the good teams in the tournament instead of more bad teams in the regular season. The problem with that is that the conference has pairs, so in one season, Hawai'i (or any other team) would miss playing Cal Poly and Santa Barbara, perenially top tier teams that help RPI. thats why I mentioned (if done properly) The ACC does it (to benefit their top teams). No reason it cant be fixed a little bit to help the good teams. |
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Dec 9, 2022 22:47:31 GMT -5
The problem with that is that the conference has pairs, so in one season, Hawai'i (or any other team) would miss playing Cal Poly and Santa Barbara, perenially top tier teams that help RPI. Cal Poly and UCSB are no longer in the same pair. But we do not know how the reduced matches will be selected for now. UCSD and Bakersfield are geographic outliers (i.e. isolated), as well as Davis, but that raises the issue of creating some unfavorable travel and schedule issues for a lot of teams, since the options otherwise are Tuesday matches, or a single opponent in a week. That is simply another difficulty that would seem to outweight the benefit. |
|
|
|
Post by wahinefan on Dec 9, 2022 23:00:55 GMT -5
The BWC, in Women's Volleyball, is a 4 tier Conference. The Top Tier teams are Hawaii, UCSB, and LBSU. These 3 teams have more often than not been the Top 3 teams in the Conference, with Hawaii starting to separate itself from the other 2. Something, UCSB and LBSU cannot let occur. The 2nd Tier teams are Cal Poly, UC Irvine, and UC Davis. Once in a while one of these 3 teams will make it into the Top Tier. What these 3 teams need to do is make the Top Tier Level on a more consistent basis, and stay there. The 3rd Tier teams are Cal State Fullerton and UC San Diego. These 2 teams seem to have separated themselves from the Bottom Tier teams, and seem to be looking at moving up in the BWC hierarchy. The Bottom Tier teams are CSUN, CSU Bakersfield, and UC Riverside. One, or two, of these 3 teams needs to start improving, otherwise they will bring the Conference down, RPI Wise.
With the above being said, teams need to start bringing in more talented players, either via NLI or transfers, on a more consistent basis. Otherwise, Hawaii will start to run away with the BWC Title, which would keep the BWC a 1 Bid Conference. For the BWC to become more then a 1 Bid Conference, there needs to be more teams then just Hawaii, UCSB, and LBSU in the Top Tier. The Teams in the 2nd Tier need to make the transition to the Top Tier Level on a consistent basis. Which would make the BWC a 3 tier Conference, instead of a 4 Tier Conference. Eventually, the goal for the BWC is to become a 2 Tier conference. The way all these teams start upgrading their teams is by first upgrading their out of conference schedule, which should bring in more talented players via the NLI, and transfers, on a more consistent basis.
Having a BWC Tournament at the end of the conference regular season, should help elevate the competition level of the 2nd and 3rd Level Tier teams. Give them some hope, something to still practice for, to get better, including the 2nd and 3rd place teams. As for Hawaii, they will always have a Target on their back, which they should. This will only make them look at ways to make them better, to stay in front of the pack, the Top Dog, in the Conference. Having a BWC Tournament should not negatively effect the Wahine. In fact, it would help them, by having 2 tough matches to prepare them for the NCAA Tournament.
|
|
