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Post by Fight On! on Jan 7, 2022 23:33:19 GMT -5
Have there been any studies with high-speed cameras of what a double and a clean set actually look like? How long is the ball touching the setter's hands? What is the difference in the total time the right hand contacts the ball vs. the left hand? How much time passes between the setter's first hand starting to touch the ball and her second hand starting to touch the ball? And more importantly, do these tiny, tiny fractions of seconds last long enough for a human eye to actually perceive what's going on, or is the referee just going to rely on ball spin or other indirect evidence? Are those tiny fractions “two attempts” or one mistimed attempt.
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Post by uofaGRAD on Jan 7, 2022 23:41:31 GMT -5
Double calls are something I’ve hated in secret for a long time but I never said anything to ANYONE because I thought I’d be jumped. Glad so many other people agree they should be done away with.
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Post by Badger Alum on Jan 8, 2022 0:45:35 GMT -5
As a setter for almost 40 years, I know the difference immediately when I set a ball that is clean vs double contact. Ask any hitter in the world and they rather have a clean set than a double hit set. It’s a skill. It’s one of the nice advantages for a team that has a good setter vs the other team that does not. Reward that. Don’t punish the good team by eliminating one of the advantages of that skill. Yes it’s hard to officiate. No question. Consistency is a big issue too. It’s not simple but it’s valuable enough to preserve the advantage of the skill. Reward the skill don’t punish it.
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Post by volleydada4 on Jan 8, 2022 0:45:47 GMT -5
There are pros and cons with anything, and this “no double rule” is no different . I think Setters will be more confident setting the ball and take more risks. Eliminate the fear of the repercussions of not quite getting your feet and hands to the ball leading to a BHE and there no reason why a setter won’t go for the gusto 10 out of 10 times. I think this will lead to a game that’s more similar to the Mens side. Offense will improve. Overall, for the way the game will be played though, I don’t think that’s necessarily a good thing for volleyball on the women's side. I enjoy the Women's game a great deal more than the Mens game because I feel like the women's game has more skill and longer rally’s. This rule change will make it harder on defenses in general (Especially the middles). I appreciate a setter that’s skilled enough to set the ball from pin to pin, with the ability to settle a ball down and put it on the money, no matter where on the court they are. I’m not a fan of rewarding, or looking the other way of bad technique or substandard skill. Inconsistency from referees have led us to this crossroads, and that in itself should be reason to give us pause. But, as they say, it is what it is.
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
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Post by trojansc on Jan 8, 2022 1:05:35 GMT -5
How many challenge plays do FIVB teams get each match? You get two per set. If you win the challenge, you keep it. If you challenge mid-rally and lose the challenge, you lose the point. You can only challenge the 'last action', you can't wait to see how your team transitions to challenge a net violation mid-rally. You have only a few seconds to challenge otherwise it will be deemed an invalid challenge.
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Post by basil on Jan 8, 2022 1:15:17 GMT -5
You get two per set. If you win the challenge, you keep it. If you challenge mid-rally and lose the challenge, you lose the point. You can only challenge the 'last action', you can't wait to see how your team transitions to challenge a net violation mid-rally. You have only a few seconds to challenge otherwise it will be deemed an invalid challenge. ok that's what the ncaa should do too, since they're not calling double now either! I don't think the ncaa has the technology to allow 2 challenges per set without significantly disrupting match rhythm challenges at the pro level rarely take over approx 45 seconds, whereas ncaa...
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,134
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Post by trojansc on Jan 8, 2022 1:18:54 GMT -5
ok that's what the ncaa should do too, since they're not calling double now either! I don't think the ncaa has the technology to allow 2 challenges per set without significantly disrupting match rhythm challenges at the pro level rarely take over approx 45 seconds, whereas ncaa... And no FIVB challenges are inconclusive. That's the reason why the mid-rally challenge in the NCAA wouldn't work either.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Jan 8, 2022 1:36:27 GMT -5
Give an objective definition of a double and how a ref can identify it? A majority of sets the fans whoop and holler at are not double contacts according to the rule book, they’re just ugly sets. 2) Any set made by a middle blocker. Thank God this wasn't the official ruling or Regan Pittman, and the Gophers would've been screwed!
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 8, 2022 6:54:14 GMT -5
As a setter for almost 40 years, I know the difference immediately when I set a ball that is clean vs double contact. Ask any hitter in the world and they rather have a clean set than a double hit set. It’s a skill. It’s one of the nice advantages for a team that has a good setter vs the other team that does not. Reward that. Don’t punish the good team by eliminating one of the advantages of that skill. Yes it’s hard to officiate. No question. Consistency is a big issue too. It’s not simple but it’s valuable enough to preserve the advantage of the skill. Reward the skill don’t punish it. Wow, this is really confused logic. If hitters prefer a clean set, then won't those sets be rewarded by better attacks? Why do you need the ref to enforce setting style?
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Post by mln59 on Jan 8, 2022 9:20:17 GMT -5
i have mixed feelings about removing the doubles rule. sometimes a set is so egregiously bad that it is undeniably a double contact. other times, the call feels too subjective. will be interesting to hear how corches feel once the spring season concludes (assuming there is one)
edit: and i wonder if removing the rule will make a big difference anyway. i don't recall seeing a match with a ton of doubles called. uofaGRAD is right about the Texas/arizona match. the doubles call on the last point of the match was not a good call
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Post by Sooners1822 on Jan 8, 2022 9:41:19 GMT -5
Most ‘doubles’ are really just sets with spin. Not actually a 1,2 contact on the ball. I can contact the ball simultaneously with both hands and still have spin on it. That’s why the double rule is lame, it’s really just grading the aesthetic of the set, or the standard of a set must be clean. Very rarely are they actually double contacts. Those are the real real bad ones but just about never happen at the collegiate level.
I agree with others who brought up football passes as an example. A poor spiral isn’t penalized it just makes it tougher on yourself. Is there a sport where a skill is scrutinized and penalized subjectively like setting?
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Post by getbusy on Jan 8, 2022 9:52:08 GMT -5
I am all for it. It will make it more exciting but I do think without the double rule the teams with bad passing will not be waiting for the setter to run across the floor to set the ball. Who ever is closest will just throw up the ball up and keep it in play.
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money
Sophomore
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Post by money on Jan 8, 2022 9:53:43 GMT -5
Double needs to go. What if a football ref flagged a Tom Brady TD because it wasn’t a perfect spiral, or a steph curry half courted was waved off because is had too much spin, or a Wayne Gretzky goal disallowed because it was on-edge when he shot it.
Better setters will STILL be better setters.
And let’s be honest - some officials have already decided they aren’t calling it.
Remember when “doubles” on the first contact and let served we’re going to ruin the game? Remember when defense with your hands was going to destroy the “skill” of defense? We’re more popular now than ever - let them play.
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Post by silverchloride on Jan 8, 2022 11:04:01 GMT -5
Yes, no doubles. No problem.
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Post by vballfannbama on Jan 8, 2022 11:17:17 GMT -5
I like it. Take doubles out of matches. It only hurts the setting side anyway. If your setter can't set, that is your team's problem. I won't miss sitting in the stands watching coaches and players holding up two fingers at the ref if a double wasn't called, fans yelling double every time, coaches holding up a match because a double wasn't called, and seeing a ref that is inconsistent with their call
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