Wisconsin Red/White Scrimmage - Sat 8/20/22, noon Central

[robtearle]

Aug 20, 2022 16:35:15 GMT -5 skinny said:

I just have a couple very important questions. Did they play Sweet Caroline at the scrimmage? And what was Crawfords reaction when they did? Was Buttercup played? Reaction from team was what?

No to all of it. But there was a fifteen person or so version of the band there, which was nice.

[badgerbreath]

Everything I’m hearing here is pretty hopeful. It will be interesting to see if the balance of the badger’s offense changes. Feels like a lot more emphasis on back row and pin attacks is coming.

I noticed that red had quite a few more hitting errors than white. That seemed to be the difference in what was a pretty good offensive showing. Not much separating the teams otherwise, including the setters.

Blocking pretty even between teams too. Was good that Ashburn got three blocks. Did red try to target her on the block a lot in this scrimmage?

[robtearle]

Aug 20, 2022 17:07:19 GMT -5 badgerbreath said:

Everything I’m hearing here is pretty hopeful. It will be interesting to see if the balance of the badger’s offense changes. Feels like a lot more emphasis on back row and pin attacks is coming.

I noticed that red had quite a few more hitting errors than white. That seemed to be the difference in what was a pretty good offensive showing. Not much separating the teams otherwise, including the setters.

Blocking pretty even between teams too. Was good that Ashburn got three blocks. Did red try to target her on the block a lot in this scrimmage?

Three, maybe four of red team's blocks were from the guy playing MB (in McCaa's place, I imagine). I assume those get included in the team stats. A couple were pretty much soloo, and at least one was in combo with Gregorski. 

[PeoriaBucky]

"For example, I hadn't really thought all that much about Franklin and back row attacking before today. So you could play her 6-rotation. But then would you also play Orzol 6-rotation. Sure, you could. But that leaves either GG or Bramschreiber on the bench with nobody to sub in for. Does that make sense? No, not really. So Orzol doesn't play six? Sheffield says she graded out very high as a serve-receive passer. So she plays six, and Franklin subs out? What about back row attacking? Smrek-Demps Opp combo, to preseve Demps back row attack? Then you can't run 6-2 setting (though you could with a 5-2). And on and on and on...

I'm glad I don't have to decide. And I have little doubt that we will see MANY different options explored as the season goes forward. It's gonna be fun to watch."

I like to see this. I trust that coach Sheffield with a lot of options is a good thing. Use the Wisconsin offense to take advantage of whatever weakness is available in the opponent.

[greatlakesvballer]

I didn't get to go - home with COVID-19 for a few more days 🤕 But I read all comments and heard from another attendee. Except for McCaa, it's all very optimistic!... including moving the U.S. flag.

But could someone who went say more about Hart? Did she not get to play much? Or just not look up-to-speed yet? I was so hoping she could get back to being a serious threat during this season....

[mnbadger]

Aug 20, 2022 19:24:01 GMT -5 greatlakesvballer said:

I didn't get to go - home with COVID-19 for a few more days 🤕 But I read all comments and heard from another attendee. Except for McCaa, it's all very optimistic!... including moving the U.S. flag.

But could someone who went say more about Hart? Did she not get to play much? Or just not look up-to-speed yet? I was so hoping she could get back to being a serious threat during this season....

Hart was in for the entire match. She looked smooth, it's just that, offensively, the middles didn't see much action as a unit. I think it was more of a setting choice thing than Hart not being ready. Ashburn took way fewer risks with her sets than Hammill did.

Hope you're feeling better soon!

[mnbadger]

Adding my $0.02 on this...

It was very jarring watching this scrimmage as the last several seasons, we've been such a middle- and opposite-heavy team. I agree with a previous poster...suddenly, our biggest arms are on the left, and this scrimmage showed that off.

Setters: I don't think I learned much about who may have the lead if the team goes 5-1. Ashburn's location seemed a little cleaner. Red was less consistent with ball-handling, but as I stated above, I thought Hammill took more risks with her setting. As such, it doesn't always pay off. There were a couple times she was backpedalling but pushed out to the left side for Franklin or Gregorski to score. So, I really don't know.

OHs: Holy depth chart, Batman! Orzol looked really solid in all phases of the game. Franklin is as-advertised, but for some reason, I felt her she quietly had herself a day. Wrobel is a BALLER. She took some really smart shots when out of system, has good off-speed and rolls when she needs it, but brings the hammer when she's got a tempo set in-system. Gregorski was also pretty solid up there. She doesn't have the physicality that the other 3 have, but she doesn't look like she doesn't belong in D1. Actually, my favorite play of hers was getting the better of the much taller Smrek on a 50-50 play at the net.

MBs: Offensively, just not much to write home about, but not in a way that has me concerned. All three clearly have it in them to be solid contributors on offense, it just likely didn't show in the stats today. The main standout was Robinson, but her best swing was from position 1 in the back row, which I've truly never seen a serving middle go to the back right, and certainly not attack from there. None of them are slow to close and seem to have good eyes. The only time I saw a middle bite hard so that the opposing OH had a 1-on-1 was from the practice player. Of course, this could be a result of knowing the other setter because you play against them every day.

Opps: Demps and Smrek were solid there. Demps's front row attacking seems to have come a long way in terms of consistency. Her blocking wasn't a liability, but it wasn't mindblowing. Smrek is such an asset. I don't think she had an error, save for one time she was blocked. She seemed WAY more comfortable working from the right side as opposed to last year when she was really mostly a MB in Oppo clothing.

Ls/DSs: All of our smalls saw court time. The one that seemed to have the most trouble in serve receive was Guctekin. A couple of shank city passes from her, but she settled down and in as the scrimmage wore on. She had some crazy defensive plays and almost had a kick save. You can also tell that she's really never been asked to serve. Bramshreiber was quietly solid. Made the digs that I would expect a libero to make but none of those body-contorting saves that make highlight reels (not a critique). Good passing. I hope she's cleared. I don't recall much exceedingly good or bad from MacDonald when she wore the jersey. Boyer and Reed also seemed to hold up fine; truly not much noteworthy from my memory.

Concluding thoughts...
The scrimmage today actually made the 6-2 more plausible in my mind. The weapons on both pins are really good and I have a difficult time saying no to that, especially when none of the OHs are defensive disasters. The setter position was not clear and convincing in one direction. I wanted to see more from the middles, but the sets just weren't there. Specifically (perhaps overly so), I wanted to see if the setters and middles were working the quick shoot away from the setter...if the Badgers can establish that as a threat, it will create a wealth of 1:1 opportunities for our opposite, particularly in a 6-2 offense. Regardless of how line-ups are built and shift, there's going to be great talent on the floor and on the bench. Let's go figure this thing out!

[Badger Alum]

Some of my thoughts from the scrimmage today:
• Was extremely impressed. These felt like 2 very strong teams. It’s hard to believe this is just one team. So much depth. I’ve been attending matches for 30 years and this is the deepest Badger team I’ve ever seen. Every position has legitimate depth.
• On offense, I saw the left sides hit more line than I’m used to seeing. I’m guessing it’s something they are working on
• The scrimmage was high quality. Excellent transition offense. Scrappy defense. I left the Field House feeling really good about this team.
• I expected more rust and tentative play out of Hart. Saw very little. She moved surprisingly well. She had a couple of really nice hard angle slides. I thought it would take a couple months into the season to be in the “form” she’s in now. Another pleasant surprise.
• Orzel was bombing her serve and was very aggressive on offense too. Definitely a few steps up from where she ended last year. She needs to be because the competition at left side is intense.
• Anna McDonald looked good as the libero in the 3rd set. I wonder if she will find playing time.
• Both setters did well. They are clearly similar in abilities. Hard to predict what they’ll go with. But I’ve always been in the camp that they’ll set a 5-1. But after watching the OH we have today, I think I walked away thinking the 6-2 is more and more likely. Both are talented setters. If we run a 6-2, we’ll have one more excellent hitter get a chance to attack across the front row. I think that’s more likely now that I thought before the scrimmage. So much offensive firepower. I got to see Izzy's serve from the end line. I sat in what is the student section. I have a new appreciation for how tough that serve really is. Excellent pace and zero spin so the ball really moves. I'd rather face Orzel's jump serve than Izzy's float. You can see serves much better from the end lines.
• Devyn Robinson was fantastic last year and she looked more aggressive this year. She looks like she’s really to take a bigger leadership role too.
• They need to find a way to keep Demps in the lineup. Her back row attacks are really special. She’s just too talented not to play.
• Sarah Franklin = holy cow! She was way better than advertised and she was highly rated. She looked unstoppable at times. She has so many shots. I don’t know if we have ever had a left side hitter like her in our program. Legit first team AA candidate. She played phenomenally.
• Ella Wrobel is the real deal. On almost any other team she’s a starter. I just don’t know where the playing time comes from on this team. She was really smart with her attacks. Not just 100% power. She’s got finesse too.
• GG is very athletic. Made some great plays. Lots of potential. Needs a stronger serve.

Overall, just extremely impressed. The coaches have a lot of hard decisions to make. Regardless of who starts, I think they’ll have quicker triggers to pull someone that is struggling because the depth of this team is crazy good. Their “2nd team” could win a lot of matches in the Big 10.

[robtearle]

Aug 20, 2022 23:08:58 GMT -5 Badger Alum said:

Some of my thoughts from the scrimmage today:
• Was extremely impressed. These felt like 2 very strong teams. It’s hard to believe this is just one team. So much depth. I’ve been attending matches for 30 years and this is the deepest Badger team I’ve ever seen. Every position has legitimate depth.
• On offense, I saw the left sides hit more line than I’m used to seeing. I’m guessing it’s something they are working on
• The scrimmage was high quality. Excellent transition offense. Scrappy defense. I left the Field House feeling really good about this team.
• I expected more rust and tentative play out of Hart. Saw very little. She moved surprisingly well. She had a couple of really nice hard angle slides. I thought it would take a couple months into the season to be in the “form” she’s in now. Another pleasant surprise.
• Orzel was bombing her serve and was very aggressive on offense too. Definitely a few steps up from where she ended last year. She needs to be because the competition at left side is intense.
• Anna McDonald looked good as the libero in the 3rd set. I wonder if she will find playing time.
• Both setters did well. They are clearly similar in abilities. Hard to predict what they’ll go with. But I’ve always been in the camp that they’ll set a 5-1. But after watching the OH we have today, I think I walked away thinking the 6-2 is more and more likely. Both are talented setters. If we run a 6-2, we’ll have one more excellent hitter get a chance to attack across the front row. I think that’s more likely now that I thought before the scrimmage. So much offensive firepower. I got to see Izzy's serve from the end line. I sat in what is the student section. I have a new appreciation for how tough that serve really is. Excellent pace and zero spin so the ball really moves. I'd rather face Orzel's jump serve than Izzy's float. You can see serves much better from the end lines.
• Devyn Robinson was fantastic last year and she looked more aggressive this year. She looks like she’s really to take a bigger leadership role too.
• They need to find a way to keep Demps in the lineup. Her back row attacks are really special. She’s just too talented not to play.
• Sarah Franklin = holy cow! She was way better than advertised and she was highly rated. She looked unstoppable at times. She has so many shots. I don’t know if we have ever had a left side hitter like her in our program. Legit first team AA candidate. She played phenomenally.
• Ella Wrobel is the real deal. On almost any other team she’s a starter. I just don’t know where the playing time comes from on this team. She was really smart with her attacks. Not just 100% power. She’s got finesse too.
• GG is very athletic. Made some great plays. Lots of potential. Needs a stronger serve.

Overall, just extremely impressed. The coaches have a lot of hard decisions to make. Regardless of who starts, I think they’ll have quicker triggers to pull someone that is struggling because the depth of this team is crazy good. Their “2nd team” could win a lot of matches in the Big 10.

Been saying it for weeks, even months now: the way to run a two setter offense while keeping Demps' back row attack as part of it is to run a 5-2, not a 6-2.

[badgerbreath]

I still don't get the advantage of the 5-2 over the 5-1. If you are keeping the Smrek/Demps sub on the RS, why not just have one setter so that the connections between the setters and the hitters could be better. Ashburn and Hammill don't appear to be that different except in terms of height. While that difference frankly isn't huge, it gives the clear advantage to one of the players.

So to me, the question is whether you want to run a 5-1 or a 6-2. Demps hit with amazing efficiency out of the backrow at the end of last year. Will she be as effective having somebody besides Rettke running the slide in front of her? In the absence of a threat like Rettke clearing the net and shifting the defense, is Demps in the backrow harder to defend than, say, Franklin in the BR and Demps in the front row providing a third option?

[robtearle]

Aug 21, 2022 8:18:58 GMT -5 badgerbreath said:

I still don't get the advantage of the 5-2 over the 5-1. If you are keeping the Smrek/Demps sub on the RS, why not just have one setter so that the connections between the setters and the hitters could be better. Ashburn and Hammill don't appear to be that different except in terms of height. While that difference frankly isn't huge, it gives the clear advantage to one of the players.

So to me, the question is whether you want to run a 5-1 or a 6-2. Demps hit with amazing efficiency out of the backrow at the end of last year. Will she be as effective having somebody besides Rettke running the slide in front of her? In the absence of a threat like Rettke clearing the net and shifting the defense, is Demps in the backrow harder to defend than, say, Franklin in the BR and Demps in the front row providing a third option?

The premise to my 5-2 argument has always been "if you are going to run a two setter offense, then...". If the answer to your "whether you want to run a 5-1 or 6-2" comes back as "6-2", THEN I say why not a 5-2 instead?

There are any number of combinations they can chose to go with, and pretty much each one is going to leave talented players on the sideline.

As for Franklin in the BR and Demps in the front, assuming you mean during a 6-2, my question becomes - and I don't have any good feel for the answer - can a team "safely" attack from the back row when the back row consists of the setter, the attacker, and the libero? There isn't much defense at the ready should that back row swing come back over the net at you. In a 5-2 (or 5-1) you can back row attack during the three rotations when the setter is front row and still have two other defenders ready to defend.

[robtearle]

Aug 21, 2022 9:12:37 GMT -5 robtearle said:

Aug 21, 2022 8:18:58 GMT -5 badgerbreath said:

I still don't get the advantage of the 5-2 over the 5-1. If you are keeping the Smrek/Demps sub on the RS, why not just have one setter so that the connections between the setters and the hitters could be better. Ashburn and Hammill don't appear to be that different except in terms of height. While that difference frankly isn't huge, it gives the clear advantage to one of the players.

So to me, the question is whether you want to run a 5-1 or a 6-2. Demps hit with amazing efficiency out of the backrow at the end of last year. Will she be as effective having somebody besides Rettke running the slide in front of her? In the absence of a threat like Rettke clearing the net and shifting the defense, is Demps in the backrow harder to defend than, say, Franklin in the BR and Demps in the front row providing a third option?

The premise to my 5-2 argument has always been "if you are going to run a two setter offense, then...". If the answer to your "whether you want to run a 5-1 or 6-2" comes back as "6-2", THEN I say why not a 5-2 instead?

There are any number of combinations they can chose to go with, and pretty much each one is going to leave talented players on the sideline.

As for Franklin in the BR and Demps in the front, assuming you mean during a 6-2, my question becomes - and I don't have any good feel for the answer - can a team "safely" attack from the back row when the back row consists of the setter, the attacker, and the libero? There isn't much defense at the ready should that back row swing come back over the net at you. In a 5-2 (or 5-1) you can back row attack during the three rotations when the setter is front row and still have two other defenders ready to defend.

... and then thinking about a 6-2 some more this morning, a couple other possibilities come to mind. 

If you go with a 6-2, the pair opposite the setters doesn't have to be Smrek and Demps. You could move Robinson back to the right, and let Hart and Crawford play the middle. Or, did Franklin ever play right side at Michigan State? She hit from the right side at least once yesterday in that rotation when it's just easier to leave her over there instead of making her way back to the left pin. Smrek and Franklin on the right opens up a slot for Wrobel to get on to the floor.

All of that means Demps is the "odd woman out", of course...

I'm glad I'm not making the decisions.

[Hawk Attack]

Notes should definitely be taken about how Nebraska handled all their new talent on the floor last season. Everyone got their chances and the right lineup came together at the end run for them, which is all that matters. That entire bench developed and was at the ready come tournament time. I'd like to see something similar from Wisconsin this season.

[robtearle]

Aug 21, 2022 12:34:37 GMT -5 Hawk Attack said:

Notes should definitely be taken about how Nebraska handled all their new talent on the floor last season. Everyone got their chances and the right lineup came together at the end run for them, which is all that matters. That entire bench developed and was at the ready come tournament time. I'd like to see something similar from Wisconsin this season.

In 2021, from the start of the season through the end of the Big Ten schedule (according to Dennis Punzel's book) Wisconsin used 14 different starting lineups. That's 14 different lineups over the course of 28 matches, over the course of a 14 week regular season schedule.

I think Sheffield will be OK figuring out what to do with the 2022 team.

[badgerbreath]

Aug 21, 2022 9:12:37 GMT -5 robtearle said:

Aug 21, 2022 8:18:58 GMT -5 badgerbreath said:

I still don't get the advantage of the 5-2 over the 5-1. If you are keeping the Smrek/Demps sub on the RS, why not just have one setter so that the connections between the setters and the hitters could be better. Ashburn and Hammill don't appear to be that different except in terms of height. While that difference frankly isn't huge, it gives the clear advantage to one of the players.

So to me, the question is whether you want to run a 5-1 or a 6-2. Demps hit with amazing efficiency out of the backrow at the end of last year. Will she be as effective having somebody besides Rettke running the slide in front of her? In the absence of a threat like Rettke clearing the net and shifting the defense, is Demps in the backrow harder to defend than, say, Franklin in the BR and Demps in the front row providing a third option?

The premise to my 5-2 argument has always been "if you are going to run a two setter offense, then...". If the answer to your "whether you want to run a 5-1 or 6-2" comes back as "6-2", THEN I say why not a 5-2 instead?

But it seems odd to start from the presumption of a two-setter offense. That decision sequence just seems an accident of the history of the discussion, not how you'd think about maximizing team efficiency. The only reason to commit to having two setters a priori is if one prioritizes making them both happy by giving them equal court time. I don't think that rationale is at the heart of the argument for a 6-2, nor should be a priority for a coach in the B1G.

From my perspective, the 5-2 is more an elaboration of a 5-1 than a version of the 6-2. The reason to run a 6-2 is to have three hitters in the front row in all 6 rotations, and likely a BR hitter because the OHs have to pass given limits to subs. The setters occupy the back row in opposite positions of the rotation and get subbed when rotating to the front row for an attacker.

If I understand your version of a 5-2, you are just playing Hammill in the front row, and Ashburn in the back row (the 2), both in the setter position of the rotation. In that situation, a non hitter is in the front row for three rotations, giving 2+3 = 5 front row hitters per 6 rotations. The 5-2 is more similar to the 5-1 in that respect - so the question should be why run the 5-2 instead of the 5-1.

There are situations where a 5-2 makes sense over a 5-1. For example, if Hammill were a significantly better blocker, and Ashburn were a substantially better setter and defender it might pay off for them to trade off despite reduced connection with the hitters that repetition with a single setter creates. However, reports so far aren't clear that Ashburn and Hammill are much different in any of these respects. Maybe Izzy has the advantage in D, but do we really know? We just haven't seen Hammill play much because she is rarely used as a serving sub. Is Hammill better as a blocker? It makes sense, but it's not that clear yet. Are any of these differences large enough to offset the loss in connection with the hitters that comes from having two setters?

So, to summarize, I think the first choice is whether to run a 6 hitter offence or a 5 hitter offense. The badgers definitely have to personnel to run a 6 hitter offense, which would necessitate two setters. However, they may decide that keeping Demps in the backrow offsets losing a front hitter for three rotations because Demps is so good there. Or they may decide that they want to save subs for DSs to shore up ball handling (in which case Ashburn makes more sense as setter in a 5-1, because she is definitely serving one way or the other and it will save subs). If they decide to run a 5 hitter offense, then they will have to decide whether to go with a 5-1 or a 5-2 based on Ashburn and Hammill's strengths/weaknesses, and what else they want to use the subs for.