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Post by vollectator on Aug 24, 2022 17:31:52 GMT -5
I’m curious about the percentage of kills Logan got off of her throws, and why it’s really questionable if she could adjust to not using them midgame, especially when she has an impressive selection of shots she’s shown over the past few seasons. I don't even understand who is saying it's questionable she could adjust midgame. What I'm saying is that if no ref calls her on it early in the year, no ref calls her on it in conference play, no ref calls her on it in the first 3 rounds of the tournament, no ref calls her on it for the first three sets of the Nebraska match, and you have Hildebrand in the ear of the ref every time she does the palm hit with the ball that she does...and THEN you call it...there's no adjustment to be made. At least GIVE her a chance to make an adjustment, rather than signaling to her all season, and all tournament, and all match that it's just fine until a little more than midway through the 4th set. If it's going to be an issue, early in the Ohio State match would be a GREAT time to call her on it aggressively. if you stole 5 tvs and didn't get caught, you should at least be GIVEN a chance to steal 3 more before the cops can slap a pair of cuffs on you. that sounds like what you're advocating. i think you should be happy with the 5 you have, especially when the penalty, when caught, was to give back the tv that never belonged to you to begin with. |
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Post by slxpress on Aug 24, 2022 17:41:59 GMT -5
I don't even understand who is saying it's questionable she could adjust midgame. What I'm saying is that if no ref calls her on it early in the year, no ref calls her on it in conference play, no ref calls her on it in the first 3 rounds of the tournament, no ref calls her on it for the first three sets of the Nebraska match, and you have Hildebrand in the ear of the ref every time she does the palm hit with the ball that she does...and THEN you call it...there's no adjustment to be made. At least GIVE her a chance to make an adjustment, rather than signaling to her all season, and all tournament, and all match that it's just fine until a little more than midway through the 4th set. If it's going to be an issue, early in the Ohio State match would be a GREAT time to call her on it aggressively. I agree that calling any violation like thrown balls consistently during the season is best.
Last season the B1G officials started making the call on Stivrins when she returned from injury. IMO it did affect her game to an extent but gave her time to adjust before tournament time.
That being said, if the B12 refs do not make a call during the regular season, it isn't the responsibility of non-B12 refs to let it go come tournament time. We should not expect opposing coaches to keep quiet about something they see as an unfair advantage when their players have been called for something all season in another conference.
So what about the non conference matches? What about the first 3 matches of the tournament? What about the first 3 sets? I'll tell you this much. I certainly expect assistants to keep quiet about it this year, since because of Hildebrand they passed it as a rule that only the head coach can talk to the ref. And it wasn't because Hildebrand talked to the ref. He rode her mercilessly the entire match. As I said above, that's gamesmanship and it could be Nebraska never gets that call in Gregory Gym without it. But that goes back to saying apply more consistency throughout the year. Congrats on B1G officials calling it in conference play. I don't see how that's supposed to affect Eggleston's approach to the game, or give her the opportunity to adjust to how the game is going to be called. That's my gripe. If you're going to start calling it, give the player the opportunity to adjust her game accordingly. That was certainly not done in Eggleston's case, regardless if people felt like the call was justified or not. |
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Post by slxpress on Aug 24, 2022 17:52:06 GMT -5
I don't even understand who is saying it's questionable she could adjust midgame. What I'm saying is that if no ref calls her on it early in the year, no ref calls her on it in conference play, no ref calls her on it in the first 3 rounds of the tournament, no ref calls her on it for the first three sets of the Nebraska match, and you have Hildebrand in the ear of the ref every time she does the palm hit with the ball that she does...and THEN you call it...there's no adjustment to be made. At least GIVE her a chance to make an adjustment, rather than signaling to her all season, and all tournament, and all match that it's just fine until a little more than midway through the 4th set. If it's going to be an issue, early in the Ohio State match would be a GREAT time to call her on it aggressively. if you stole 5 tvs and didn't get caught, you should at least be GIVEN a chance to steal 3 more before the cops can slap a pair of cuffs on you. that sounds like what you're advocating. i think you should be happy with the 5 you have, especially when the penalty, when caught, was to give back the tv that never belonged to you to begin with. If you're not going to call something, whether it's double contact, palming the ball, or anything else, then don't call it. If you are going to call it, call it early so players can adjust. Not spring the call on them after indicating it was okay. Same with holding in football. Travelling, palming, or charges from the weakside in basketball. Balls and strikes in baseball. Be consistent. Call it the same way both sides. That wasn't done in the Nebraska match. Of course you and I have different views of it. But what Eggleston was doing was no more egregious than similar plays in other sports. If you're not going to call it, you're taking the view of "let the players play." If you're not going to have that view, indicate it early on so players can adjust. It's not equivalent to stealing TVs. It's more like allowing people to go over the speed limit, then when a person is late getting to the airport pulling them over for something you just allowed them to do a few minutes ago because a bystander is screaming in your ear that people shouldn't be allowed to go over the speed limit. |
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Post by tablealgebra on Aug 24, 2022 18:08:01 GMT -5
(of course, this is easy for me to say because I think the throws are an abomination that are completely against the spirit of the game, but mainly I want to defend the ref's ability to call some edge plays and let others go) just as a curiosity, what's your opinion on setter dumps? My opinion is that setters don't palm the ball before performing a setter dump. |
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Post by uofaGRAD on Aug 24, 2022 18:52:08 GMT -5
just as a curiosity, what's your opinion on setter dumps? My opinion is that setters don't palm the ball before performing a setter dump. hm, we’ve definitely watched and played with some different setters then. I think the motion is very similar. A shove of the ball down to a more accurate part of the court, that would be much harder to place with a swing and much harder to dig than a tip because of the speed of the shove. I’m not arguing that they should or shouldn’t be allowed, but to allow a setter to shove/throw the ball like that and not an outside is when I start getting opinionated. Calls like that shouldn’t be called based on position. I could go on an even deeper rant but it happens with doubles ALL the time too. Setters are allowed to double for days half the time, but as soon as a ball comes off a middles or outsides (sometimes even libs) hands, double or not, it’s called a double. I just want an evenly called game, but I know that’s a lot to ask🙃 |
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Post by slxpress on Aug 24, 2022 19:06:45 GMT -5
My opinion is that setters don't palm the ball before performing a setter dump. hm, we’ve definitely watched and played with some different setters then. I think the motion is very similar. A shove of the ball down to a more accurate part of the court, that would be much harder to place with a swing and much harder to dig than a tip because of the speed of the shove. I’m not arguing that they should or shouldn’t be allowed, but to allow a setter to shove/throw the ball like that and not an outside is when I start getting opinionated. Calls like that shouldn’t be called based on position. I could go on an even deeper rant but it happens with doubles ALL the time too. Setters are allowed to double for days half the time, but as soon as a ball comes off a middles or outsides (sometimes even libs) hands, double or not, it’s called a double. I just want an evenly called game, but I know that’s a lot to ask🙃 Fleck was called for a double in the Rice scrimmage after SKT had first contact. You could see her facial expression, "Really?" My thing about double contact is I'm unclear how that gives a team an advantage. A carry is different. If one side is allowed to redirect the ball - whoever is doing it - and another side isn't, that's going to be unfair. The problem with carries is how they're called. Setters are never called for them, even when it's obvious the contact has not been a clean hit. There's been a lasting contact and that contact has allowed the setter to put the ball into an open area of the court. There's absolutely an obvious "throw" involved. With outside hitters, if they're able to get on top of the ball it ends up being a tough call (I'm not saying it should be - but it is), but if they're anywhere underneath the ball it's pretty easy. That's part of why Eggleston gets that call so much. She's always on top of the ball with the ball going directly down, and refs in general are loathe to call it. Except in the B1G, where they've made it a point of emphasis, and yet somehow the rest of the NCAA is supposed to get the memo. I wish they would, frankly, that way it would be consistently called across the landscape. |
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Post by horns1 on Aug 25, 2022 22:49:10 GMT -5
Guess I'll bump this thread since it fell to page 4
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Post by Timeless on Aug 26, 2022 0:09:42 GMT -5
Is Ohio State a good passing team? If they are then I can see but if not I'm a bit surprised at the votes in this thread and in the PTW.
This Texas might be the best serving team ever (on paper).
or
Is it mostly Anti-Texas or Nebraska/Big ten fans voting with their hearts?
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Post by vollectator on Aug 26, 2022 0:37:23 GMT -5
if you stole 5 tvs and didn't get caught, you should at least be GIVEN a chance to steal 3 more before the cops can slap a pair of cuffs on you. that sounds like what you're advocating. i think you should be happy with the 5 you have, especially when the penalty, when caught, was to give back the tv that never belonged to you to begin with. If you're not going to call something, whether it's double contact, palming the ball, or anything else, then don't call it. If you are going to call it, call it early so players can adjust. Not spring the call on them after indicating it was okay. Same with holding in football. Travelling, palming, or charges from the weakside in basketball. Balls and strikes in baseball. Be consistent. Call it the same way both sides. That wasn't done in the Nebraska match. Of course you and I have different views of it. But what Eggleston was doing was no more egregious than similar plays in other sports. If you're not going to call it, you're taking the view of "let the players play." If you're not going to have that view, indicate it early on so players can adjust. It's not equivalent to stealing TVs. It's more like allowing people to go over the speed limit, then when a person is late getting to the airport pulling them over for something you just allowed them to do a few minutes ago because a bystander is screaming in your ear that people shouldn't be allowed to go over the speed limit. |
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Post by slxpress on Aug 26, 2022 0:57:41 GMT -5
If you're not going to call something, whether it's double contact, palming the ball, or anything else, then don't call it. If you are going to call it, call it early so players can adjust. Not spring the call on them after indicating it was okay. Same with holding in football. Travelling, palming, or charges from the weakside in basketball. Balls and strikes in baseball. Be consistent. Call it the same way both sides. That wasn't done in the Nebraska match. Of course you and I have different views of it. But what Eggleston was doing was no more egregious than similar plays in other sports. If you're not going to call it, you're taking the view of "let the players play." If you're not going to have that view, indicate it early on so players can adjust. It's not equivalent to stealing TVs. It's more like allowing people to go over the speed limit, then when a person is late getting to the airport pulling them over for something you just allowed them to do a few minutes ago because a bystander is screaming in your ear that people shouldn't be allowed to go over the speed limit. I promise I am not ignoring you, but this is difficult for me to read. I'll try to copy and paste it or something. Sorry about your technical difficulties. Nothing personal! |
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Post by ay2013 on Aug 26, 2022 0:57:51 GMT -5
Is Ohio State a good passing team? If they are then I can see but if not I'm a bit surprised at the votes in this thread and in the PTW. This Texas might be the best serving team ever (on paper). or Is it mostly Anti-Texas or Nebraska/Big ten fans voting with their hearts? well if you are just looking at aces, possibly, but being high in aces doesn't mean Texas is the best serving team ever. They had 2 aces per set last year but over 3 service errors per set. There are plenty of good serving teams that don't get outright aces, but consistently get their opponents out of system without making tons of service errors. |
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Post by Timeless on Aug 26, 2022 1:04:14 GMT -5
Is Ohio State a good passing team? If they are then I can see but if not I'm a bit surprised at the votes in this thread and in the PTW. This Texas might be the best serving team ever (on paper). or Is it mostly Anti-Texas or Nebraska/Big ten fans voting with their hearts? well if you are just looking at aces, possibly, but being high in aces doesn't mean Texas is the best serving team ever. They had 2 aces per set last year but over 3 service errors per set. There are plenty of good serving teams that don't get outright aces, but consistently get their opponents out of system without making tons of service errors. So, who would be the best serving team ever be then? A 1 to 1.5 ish aces/error ratio for the women's game looks pretty elite to me. Interesting to see how this series plays out and the rest of the season for Texas. I do think they are going to sweep both matches this weekend though pretty convincingly. |
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Post by slxpress on Aug 26, 2022 1:10:20 GMT -5
Is Ohio State a good passing team? If they are then I can see but if not I'm a bit surprised at the votes in this thread and in the PTW. This Texas might be the best serving team ever (on paper). or Is it mostly Anti-Texas or Nebraska/Big ten fans voting with their hearts? I do not know how Ohio State was as a passing team last year. What people have been saying is the acclaimed libero, Murr, is not as good in serve receive as she is on defense, but that's not my opinion (I have none regarding her). What I can say is that I had the same impression as you did regarding UT's serve. As a Texas fan, I was excited about it. However, I haven't been blown away from what I've seen in the O/W scrimmage and the scrimmage against Rice. It could be things will be ratcheted up for Ohio State. I don't know. Eggleston looks in mid season form, and Parra was devastating against what I can only assume were some of Rice's backups in the 4th set (starting setter Carly Graham was on the court, but I don't know the rest of their roster well enough to identify everyone else). Zoe Fleck's serve rotation was by far the most effective serve rotation for Texas against Rice, specifically in the first 2 sets when everyone had their starters in, but it was less because her serve was so indefensible and more because the rotation itself dominated. We'll see how Akana looks against the Buckeyes, since I'm assuming she'll be starting as DS for Molly Phillips' back row rotations. I'm also interested to see if O'Neal is the MB server, because while I felt she was very effective for Texas last year, she gave way to both Caffey and Bergmark as the server against Rice. In fact, only O'Neal and Phillips didn't serve versus Rice out of everyone who will be in the active rotation, which surprised me. It's also unclear how they're going to try to incorporate Parra's serves. What I can say is that UT's serve receive looks really good. Much better than I'm used to. I picked Texas to win both because I'm a Texas fan, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Ohio State win one. I would be devastated as a fan if they win both, but that's certainly possible, too. It just depends on how well this Texas roster jells early in the season. Ohio State should definitely have the edge there with all their returners, and Podraza leading the way. |
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Post by slxpress on Aug 26, 2022 1:14:00 GMT -5
Is Ohio State a good passing team? If they are then I can see but if not I'm a bit surprised at the votes in this thread and in the PTW. This Texas might be the best serving team ever (on paper). or Is it mostly Anti-Texas or Nebraska/Big ten fans voting with their hearts? well if you are just looking at aces, possibly, but being high in aces doesn't mean Texas is the best serving team ever. They had 2 aces per set last year but over 3 service errors per set. There are plenty of good serving teams that don't get outright aces, but consistently get their opponents out of system without making tons of service errors. I'd also argue the opposite is true. Making tons of service errors isn't bad if the team is consistently scoring on serve rotations before they occur. It's when there are a ton of first serve service errors that there's an issue. And since we don't measure that effectively, it's hard to tell what's going on with any team in that regard. |
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Post by basil on Aug 26, 2022 1:40:45 GMT -5
Is Ohio State a good passing team? If they are then I can see but if not I'm a bit surprised at the votes in this thread and in the PTW. This Texas might be the best serving team ever (on paper). or Is it mostly Anti-Texas or Nebraska/Big ten fans voting with their hearts? well if you are just looking at aces, possibly, but being high in aces doesn't mean Texas is the best serving team ever. They had 2 aces per set last year but over 3 service errors per set. There are plenty of good serving teams that don't get outright aces, but consistently get their opponents out of system without making tons of service errors. I didn't check *every* team out there but Texas got their opponents to a lower passing grade than pretty much every single top team, and it held when I filtered out the Big 12 teams that suck |
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