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Post by Keystonekid on Aug 31, 2005 22:44:37 GMT -5
Publius, I do believe that a killed overpass is a reception error but i'll make sure. I understand your point none the less, but were talking about literally half their opponents players hitting over .400. that is an awful lot of overpasses. These are NOT serve receive issues. .688, .478, .440,.440,.421 etc.... those are major problems at the net, not behind the 10 foot line.
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Post by Gorf on Aug 31, 2005 23:18:41 GMT -5
Publius, I do believe that a killed overpass is a reception error but i'll make sure. I understand your point none the less, but were talking about literally half their opponents players hitting over .400. that is an awful lot of overpasses. These are NOT serve receive issues. .688, .478, .440,.440,.421 etc.... those are major problems at the net, not behind the 10 foot line. If killed overpasses count as reception errors they better have had more than 4 reception errors in their stats over the course of the 6 games they played against Nebraska and Penn State. They had more than 4 over passes in individual games let alone total over the course of all 6 games. I guess some of those could have been counted as blocks, and some of the overpasses I saw might have come as the result of digs rather than on serve receive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2005 23:32:18 GMT -5
Publius, I do believe that a killed overpass is a reception error but i'll make sure. I understand your point none the less, but were talking about literally half their opponents players hitting over .400. that is an awful lot of overpasses. These are NOT serve receive issues. .688, .478, .440,.440,.421 etc.... those are major problems at the net, not behind the 10 foot line. I don't disagree with your overall position. But if a killed overpass is shown as a reception error, then it would also have to be shown as an ace and not as a kill by the scoring team. I believe one team's aces always equal the other teams' service reception errors and vice versa. However, I believe the point resulting from a put down of a service overpass (or any overpass) is recorded as a kill.
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Post by bucky415 on Aug 31, 2005 23:49:43 GMT -5
I haven't seen Penn State this year (stupid lack of CSTV), but I think they definitely have a size advantage over Hawaii and have an excellent setter in Tortorello and a very good libero in Walters, so I would expect a good match in the rematch this weekend. I know that I am biased because the only time I saw them last year was in the match they lost, but I didn't feel that Hawaii was very intimidating physically last year. Prince was really the only hitter who seemed to have that "wow" type of athleticism that jumps out at you. It seemed like they won so many matches due to their execution, especially at crunch time, and that was lacking last weekend, apparently. Thus, I think that Hawaii will have to play their game pretty well, or PSU (another team that executed very well in the matches I saw them play last year) will win again.
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Post by aaronic on Sept 1, 2005 2:41:18 GMT -5
Hawaii is going to have to play downright flawless in order to beat USC or PSU!!!
Since Tara Hittle is only playing the backrow, then i'm sure that it'll be pretty darn hard for them to win either game. Hittles front row power is probably that missing piece the wahine needed against PSU last week. I don't think we can win without her, unless that is we play flawless. Just a random thought, I think Hawaii's lineup should be:
LS- Susie Boogaard LS- Arnott MB- Prince MB- Kari Gregory RS- Jamie Houston S - Kanoe L - Watanabe
I say that the passing has got to be at it's best with Susie and Arnott hopefully able to hit for a decent percentage.
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Post by VBSID on Sept 1, 2005 4:20:00 GMT -5
Just for clarification, an overpass does not count as a reception error. If it's put down, then it's a kill, otherwise it's a nothing if someone handles it to the setter. In the stat world, it's just an "Over."
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Post by roy on Sept 1, 2005 4:22:57 GMT -5
Interesting thread. The stuff I miss when I actually work at work. I don't disagree with a lot of what has been said. A few minor thoughts to add to this.
Hawaii has some very interesting challenges ahead of them. With the losses to Nebraska and Penn State, the pressure is off to try to repeat last year's run. A good wake up call in showing these players what a top team can do and how much more they need to improve. In some ways, Hawaii has the advantage in the fans and home court. Again, the pressure to win is less with the 2 losses. But Hawaii doesn't have everything they usually have in the home court. They will also be a team traveling to Hawaii, as the Wahine and Penn State both arrived in Hawaii from Nebraska around the same time. They also need to deal with school while the others don't.
Hittle will improve the back row, but only in 3 rotations. If she isn't going to play front row, it will pose some problems with the passing. But Hittle is probably the third best passer on the team, next to Watanabe and Boogard. She is definately needed on the court. Her hitting was sorely missed and the firepower is what Hawaii was missing.
I am not convinced Penn State played at their best in Nebraska. If Penn State can start to get on a roll, they will be hard to beat.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2005 9:50:13 GMT -5
Just for clarification, an overpass does not count as a reception error. If it's put down, then it's a kill, otherwise it's a nothing if someone handles it to the setter. In the stat world, it's just an "Over." Exactly. And all the more reason why there should be a stat for this, especially for the server. To support what some have been saying, poor passing _will_ lead to higher hitting %s for the opponent. But Hawaii's problems went deeper than that. All of the sudden this USC match becomes a MUST win for Hawaii if they want to stay in the top 10 and will have a significant impact on their seeding. Of course, if they beat PSU...
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Post by Keystonekid on Sept 1, 2005 10:22:03 GMT -5
I don't see why Hawaii would drop out of top 10 if they lose to USC. Although they would have four losses (assuming PSU wins again. Their losses would be against #1, #5, #5, and #7. What other teams in the top 10 would not be 0-4? Minnesota would, Ohio State would, Wisconsin would, and possibly Tenn and Florida.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2005 10:27:08 GMT -5
Oh? Minnesota can't beat Stanford? PSU? USC?
Get real. That's not a given.
And USC is over-rated at #7.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Sept 1, 2005 11:31:00 GMT -5
Oh? Minnesota can't beat Stanford? PSU? USC? Get real. That's not a given. And USC is over-rated at #7. Touchy ;D
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Post by Keystonekid on Sept 1, 2005 11:37:03 GMT -5
Ruffda, I didn't say they couldn't beat those three teams, I am saying that could very easily go 0-4 with that schedule. Nebraska is much better , I believe PSU is better, and USC is probably as good. I don't think you will get alot of argument on that. I think Minnesota is good to, but they could and I think would go 0-4 or 1-3 at best with Hawaii's schedule.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2005 11:38:36 GMT -5
Only when they use a blow-torch...
And make your Cowbell picture smaller, BiK.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2005 11:42:14 GMT -5
Ruffda, I didn't say they couldn't beat those three teams, I am saying that could very easily go 0-4 with that schedule. Nebraska is much better , I believe PSU is better, and USC is probably as good. I don't think you will get alot of argument on that. I think Minnesota is good to, but they could and I think would go 0-4 or 1-3 at best with Hawaii's schedule. But that's not what you said. You said they _would_ be 0-4. Never mind, if that's not what you meant. I still think USC is more like #10. So, if Hawaii loses to them, at home, that puts Hawaii outside the top 10 for me.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Sept 1, 2005 11:47:37 GMT -5
I don't see why Hawaii would drop out of top 10 if they lose to USC. If you are talking the AVCA poll, there is no way an 0-4 team would hang around that much. Basic guideline: take the starting point, and drop a couple of spots for every loss. Take more if they are against weaker teams (not the case here) or if they compound (is the case here). Maybe they will hold in the top 15, but a lot of people will move them down a lot, especially if they are uncompetitive this week as last. OTOH, if they win one of these, that will make things very different. You are basing your argument on the idea that the AVCA voters are doing a gross evaluation. As Ruffda likes to note, the AVCA poll is a system of penalize and reward. For most of the season, it is mostly penalize losses. This poll, the second of the year, is better in that regard as they try to resort given their blatent mistakes that originate from using last year's poll in the preseason, but they still will follow the pattern. I will note that what you are suggesting is much more likely to happen in Pablo rankings than the AVCA. A team could easily be 0 - 4 and still be in the top ten in Pablo. However, given the magnitude of the losses last weekend, I think Hawaii would be ranked well enough below Nebraska and Penn State to move them out of the top ten, and maybe even out of the top 20. All depending on their performance this week, again. A win this week against Penn St would change things a lot. A win over USC would help, but will be tempered by the HCA and by USC's loss to Penn St. Unfortunately, I will be out of town this weekend and won't be running the first Pablo ranking of the season until the 18th, during which time a lot can happen.
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