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Post by huskervbfan on Sept 1, 2005 11:51:58 GMT -5
Also keep in mind they have been swept twice. IF that happens against the next two teams, all the more reason to drop them out of the Top 10. I wouldn't have rated them as high as they were to start with so almost any drop would put them out of my Top 10.
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Post by Keystonekid on Sept 1, 2005 12:46:40 GMT -5
If a team ranked 15th wins against teams that are ranked behind them do they move into the top 10? So why do teams ranked in the top ten who lose to teams in the top ten move out of the top ten?
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Post by huskervbfan on Sept 1, 2005 12:53:55 GMT -5
To me, it depends on how bad they lose. Being swept is certainly worse than going 5 tough games. A loss is a matter of degree. I thought they were too high to start with too.
It also depends on how other teams do. If there is no other particular upsets in the lower ranks, that will help Hawaii. I haven't looked at other schedules to see what else MIGHT happen.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Sept 1, 2005 13:22:45 GMT -5
If a team ranked 15th wins against teams that are ranked behind them do they move into the top 10? It depends. How many losses did the team's in front of them have? For example, consider the #24 team who loses to the #10 team. If the #25 and #26 teams both win, even if they beat the #100 and #101 teams, they almost always will move ahead of the team that lost. You can think it doesn't make sense. Even by the voter's own ranking, the #10 should beat the #24 team, but the #24 team is still penalized. I never understood that myself, but this is what poll voters do. BTW, HuskerVBfan, there is very, very little consideration of what other teams do in the actual polls (your approach my vary). Ranking polls are based on two things, mainly: 1) What were you ranked last week, and 2) Did you lose? In some cases, with very good wins, you will move up a spot or two, but that has to be a very big win. But now to the point: it is not unusual for this to come back to bite the voters illogically. For example, Team A, ranked #10, beats Team B, ranked #6, and the voters boost them up. Let's say they trade spaces. But the following week, team B loses again, to an unranked team. All of a sudden, team B drops to #15. What happens to Team A? Well, if they won, even if they beat lousy team D in a close match, they don't move. Despite the fact that their #6 rank was based on beating former #6 Team B, they don't drop even though Team B lost. Morover, Team B could drop out of the poll altogether, and Team A will still sit at #6 because they beat Team B. There is no indication that voters pay all that much attention to such things. |
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Post by OverAndUnder on Sept 1, 2005 13:42:54 GMT -5
Remember that's exactly what happened last year to Texas.
They started the season out of the top 25.
They stumbled into the 18-25 range after a couple weeks.
Then BOOM! They beat then-#5 Florida and jumped to #11.
They had expected losses against Nebraska (#4) and Stanford (NCAAs), and a loss to #20 A&M and unranked Missouri.
Their final ranking?
#11
As AB and Ruff have stated, the AVCAs are a popularity contest based on punishment/reward, NOT the relative strength of all teams in the field.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Sept 1, 2005 13:54:33 GMT -5
Why are some of you ladies talking about Hawai'i losing?
Take your crystal balls back to the trinket shops you got them from.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2005 13:55:50 GMT -5
Take your crystal balls back to the trinket shops you got them from. Watch your language. And make that picture smaller. |
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Sept 1, 2005 13:58:13 GMT -5
Take your crystal balls back to the trinket shops you got them from. Watch your language. And make that picture smaller. Nope ;D |
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Post by GauchoDon on Sept 1, 2005 14:15:12 GMT -5
I don't see why Hawaii would drop out of top 10 if they lose to USC. Although they would have four losses (assuming PSU wins again. Their losses would be against #1, #5, #5, and #7. What other teams in the top 10 would not be 0-4? Minnesota would, Ohio State would, Wisconsin would, and possibly Tenn and Florida. I would think how far they drop will have more to do with how many of the losses are 3 game sweeps. Would think Hawaii will do better at SSC  , but if they don't a better question might be how many of those teams would be swept two or more times in the four games. |
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Post by huskervbfan on Sept 1, 2005 14:21:34 GMT -5
Why are some of you ladies talking about Hawai'i losing? Take your crystal balls back to the trinket shops you got them from. I don't know who the ladies you are talking about are but I'm basing it on recent trends and notice above that I put a big IF they lose, this is what I would do. That may have no similarity to what the AVCA voters do. |
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Post by Keystonekid on Sept 1, 2005 14:45:31 GMT -5
the scores of games and matches have no bearing on anything whatsover. There is no difference in losing in 3, 4, or 5. A loss is a loss.
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Post by Wolfgang on Sept 1, 2005 14:48:00 GMT -5
the scores of games and matches have no bearing on anything whatsover. There is no difference in losing in 3, 4, or 5. A loss is a loss. Oh, sure, yeah, but it's good for fun discussions and betting purposes. Why have a SPREAD? A win is a win, a loss is a loss... It's just for fun. |
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Post by huskervbfan on Sept 1, 2005 15:14:54 GMT -5
the scores of games and matches have no bearing on anything whatsover. There is no difference in losing in 3, 4, or 5. A loss is a loss. Not in my book and I think that is one of the things wrong with the RPI. Pablo does take that into consideration and that is why I think that ranking is one of the best indicators. |
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Sept 1, 2005 16:37:37 GMT -5
the scores of games and matches have no bearing on anything whatsover. There is no difference in losing in 3, 4, or 5. A loss is a loss. It depends on the question. If the question "What is the team's winning percentage?" then a loss is certainly a loss. If the question is "How good is a team?" then most often, there needs to be a difference in how one interprets 3, 4, and 5 game losses. It is an empirical fact that taking into account this information allows one to make a more accurate prediction of future performance. And, for the record, I will note that the distinction between 3, 4, and 5 losses was also part of the old Ballicora system. Ballicora handled it a little differently than Pablo does, and it played a bigger role in his system than it does in mine. Mine compensates for the difference by looking to the points as well. Just as a 3 game match is not the same as a 5 game match, a 30 - 21 game is not the same as a 33 - 31 game. |
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Post by 2c on Sept 1, 2005 21:58:18 GMT -5
the scores of games and matches have no bearing on anything whatsover. There is no difference in losing in 3, 4, or 5. A loss is a loss. 2004 pre-NCAA Tourney... See Hawaii and Stanford. |
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, but if they don't a better question might be how many of those teams would be swept two or more times in the four games.
