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Post by babybacksets on Dec 3, 2023 1:33:21 GMT -5
Interesting. If you go with Kate, being the Starter, that she should set the A-side about 75-80% of the time in practice, then Jackie is only setting about 20-25% in practice, she would not learn much. Jackie should be setting the B-side about 75-80%, and the A-side about 20-25%, with Kate setting the B-side 20-25%. Robyn should only be setting when she wants to show both Kate and Jackie how a certain set should be performed. Yes ma'am. Jackie needs reps if not to take the starting position then at least to be a viable back up. I shared this with babybacksets but I have coached against Jackie since she was young and she has never looked so paltry in setting and just her overall game in general. Now I'm not saying definitively that Jackie's woes are because Robyn sets the B-side because I don't know. But if Robyn or any coach for the matter is taking touches away from the players more often than not, it's a problem. Yea I’m hoping there’s more that Jackie can bring next season because as of now, I don’t think there’s anything she brings that Kate isn’t already bringing. Then you have Arquette, who will bring net presence that neither of the other two setters will have, I just hope she comes in ready to be a SETTER who can hit every now and then. We have plenty of pins, no need to add her to the list unless she’s going to put up insane numbers
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 3, 2023 1:45:02 GMT -5
That part! She was very erratic in serve receive and I know damn well that Logan Tom did not teach her to swing her arms that way when she passes. Floor defense and scramble was probably tops on the team though. She can read. Yes it was definitely the swinging for me. Hopefully that’s a habit she can break by next season because she has the potential to be a more offensive Wagoner and the momentum of the type of fearless defense she brings can make an incredible difference, especially if it’s a mainstay in the lineup. I think Caylen was the steadier passer this season, just made overall calmer, quieter moves. I like Paula and Stella and I think they will provide quality depth, if not win out a spot outright if their passing, floor defense, and out of system hitting improves. Paula for sure needs to get stronger and jump higher, she got dug way too much this season but I think if she’s the type of player that wants great things for herself, she’ll take on the challenge. Stella I like a lot of her athleticism and I think her way in is bringing the incredible athlete she is in the front row along with her to the backrow. But going back to what was previously stated, passing is ALWAYS going to be something every team works on but like you stated, passing just breaks down sometimes, but that breakdown gets felt A LOT less if you have a pin hitter who can swing on out of system balls and bail the team out. I think these past few having your biggest bailout arm be your middle, made passing a premium and it was more obvious we were hurting because of situations where we couldn’t get Amber the ball. The middles will be role players next season but likely won’t be the focus, so having that arm in the pin that can score no matter what ALONG WITH improving passing, especially under the bright lights, is what can keep the trajectory for the program moving upwards. And we can want a “faster offense” all day long but when the passing isn’t there to run things fast, it’s going to be tough to live and die by that. Which is one reason why I was accepting, albeit begrudgingly, of how slow and high the offense started out. I think it’s important to have hitters who don’t need a lot of particulars in order to be effective scorers Agree about Caylen seemingly being the steadier passer and having quieter technique. Majorly agree with Amber being Hawaii's best option as a middle (and honestly, Hawaii's only real threatening option most of the time) putting a premium on Hawaii's passing and transition ball control. The fact that Amber had so many attempts and kills isn't just a testament to Amber's hard work but to the hard work of the passers and Kate. If the passing and Kate are as bad as we are being led to believe, then I don't care if Hawaii had Foluke, it just wouldn't have worked out the way it has. "Running" a fast offense takes time and careful planning. In my opinion, it's more than just passing up to the net and other factors come into play like: 1) Do you want to tempo pass? 2) How do you want the passes to lead your setter? 3) What step should your pins/middles be on when your setter is about to contact the ball? ....and last but definitely not least..... 4) Do you have the personnel to run the quicker tempo offense/system? I liked what Paula brought this season but I'll be diggity dog damn shook if she is able to run in a first tempo offense. In my opinion, Stella and Tali look like they can, Stella with her seemingly great footwork on her approach and Tali with her willingness to go, go, go! From what I could tell on TV and live, Caylen can sometimes be caught taking her first step either slightly in place or not quick enough which just screws up her step close.
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 3, 2023 2:56:43 GMT -5
It just seems to me like Jackie has lost confidence in her setting ability. She just needs setting time, whether it is in practice or in an actual match. With that playing time she will regain her confidence, and her setting ability will come back. I agree with you that it seems that Jackie has lost confidence. Tidbit that I'm not sure anyone knows but Jackie was coached by the same club coach as Texas all-American Jhenna Gabriel. This same coach was also one of my club coaches in my prep days. The man was a tough as nails coach who, in my opinion, makes Robyn look mild.
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Post by hwnstunner on Dec 3, 2023 3:19:31 GMT -5
Yes it was definitely the swinging for me. Hopefully that’s a habit she can break by next season because she has the potential to be a more offensive Wagoner and the momentum of the type of fearless defense she brings can make an incredible difference, especially if it’s a mainstay in the lineup. I think Caylen was the steadier passer this season, just made overall calmer, quieter moves. I like Paula and Stella and I think they will provide quality depth, if not win out a spot outright if their passing, floor defense, and out of system hitting improves. Paula for sure needs to get stronger and jump higher, she got dug way too much this season but I think if she’s the type of player that wants great things for herself, she’ll take on the challenge. Stella I like a lot of her athleticism and I think her way in is bringing the incredible athlete she is in the front row along with her to the backrow. But going back to what was previously stated, passing is ALWAYS going to be something every team works on but like you stated, passing just breaks down sometimes, but that breakdown gets felt A LOT less if you have a pin hitter who can swing on out of system balls and bail the team out. I think these past few having your biggest bailout arm be your middle, made passing a premium and it was more obvious we were hurting because of situations where we couldn’t get Amber the ball. The middles will be role players next season but likely won’t be the focus, so having that arm in the pin that can score no matter what ALONG WITH improving passing, especially under the bright lights, is what can keep the trajectory for the program moving upwards. And we can want a “faster offense” all day long but when the passing isn’t there to run things fast, it’s going to be tough to live and die by that. Which is one reason why I was accepting, albeit begrudgingly, of how slow and high the offense started out. I think it’s important to have hitters who don’t need a lot of particulars in order to be effective scorers Agree about Caylen seemingly being the steadier passer and having quieter technique. Majorly agree with Amber being Hawaii's best option as a middle (and honestly, Hawaii's only real threatening option most of the time) putting a premium on Hawaii's passing and transition ball control. The fact that Amber had so many attempts and kills isn't just a testament to Amber's hard work but to the hard work of the passers and Kate. If the passing and Kate are as bad as we are being led to believe, then I don't care if Hawaii had Foluke, it just wouldn't have worked out the way it has. "Running" a fast offense takes time and careful planning. In my opinion, it's more than just passing up to the net and other factors come into play like: 1) Do you want to tempo pass? 2) How do you want the passes to lead your setter? 3) What step should your pins/middles be on when your setter is about to contact the ball? ....and last but definitely not least..... 4) Do you have the personnel to run the quicker tempo offense/system? I liked what Paula brought this season but I'll be diggity dog damn shook if she is able to run in a first tempo offense. In my opinion, Stella and Tali look like they can, Stella with her seemingly great footwork on her approach and Tali with her willingness to go, go, go! From what I could tell on TV and live, Caylen can sometimes be caught taking her first step either slightly in place or not quick enough which just screws up her step close. Really good post!! Agreed.
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 3, 2023 3:33:51 GMT -5
Agree about Caylen seemingly being the steadier passer and having quieter technique. Majorly agree with Amber being Hawaii's best option as a middle (and honestly, Hawaii's only real threatening option most of the time) putting a premium on Hawaii's passing and transition ball control. The fact that Amber had so many attempts and kills isn't just a testament to Amber's hard work but to the hard work of the passers and Kate. If the passing and Kate are as bad as we are being led to believe, then I don't care if Hawaii had Foluke, it just wouldn't have worked out the way it has. "Running" a fast offense takes time and careful planning. In my opinion, it's more than just passing up to the net and other factors come into play like: 1) Do you want to tempo pass? 2) How do you want the passes to lead your setter? 3) What step should your pins/middles be on when your setter is about to contact the ball? ....and last but definitely not least..... 4) Do you have the personnel to run the quicker tempo offense/system? I liked what Paula brought this season but I'll be diggity dog damn shook if she is able to run in a first tempo offense. In my opinion, Stella and Tali look like they can, Stella with her seemingly great footwork on her approach and Tali with her willingness to go, go, go! From what I could tell on TV and live, Caylen can sometimes be caught taking her first step either slightly in place or not quick enough which just screws up her step close. Really good post!! Agreed. Thank you! I'm all eyes (ears) for everyone's input as well. The discussions have been much better as of late and I'm enjoying it!
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Post by g0bows on Dec 3, 2023 3:55:47 GMT -5
I mean 808 is not wrong tho. Time eventually reveals the truth and if each year our ball control always gets exposed in our biggest games then there’s a problem in cultivating the right training or lack there of. If it becomes mental then there’s more to it then doubt, with constant training and preparation there is nothing to doubt. Nor should there be a need for animated examples in the mist of a games timeout! I’m not calling out coach Rob, I think her passion for the team and the girls are absolutely awesome and a big positive but there needs to be some changes in training and coaching not necessarily her but additional coaches to help find new approaches to help find a remedy and lay improvements! This program has developed many unknown All -Americans like Amber…Ahuna, Cubi-Otinero , Maglio. If you are content with our current status and think we can’t improve in our coaching/training/method and being the current Delaware’s , Fairfield’s and Northern Illinois going into Lincoln .. Madison.. and Austin in the first rounds as a back end top 50-60’s Team as a reward for winning your conference then congrats cause that’s where we are already There's a few things I want to address here: 1.) In post season matches where the stage is high and the stakes are even higher, someone's passing will and needs to breakdown. It's one of the first ways you strategize against a team. Serving is dual in nature as its offensive but it is also a first line of "defense" by pulling setters off the net and making offenses easier to set up against. With that being said, I don't think anyone is saying Hawaii's passing is amazing. They had a rough go but they definitely showed some improvement the last few weeks of the season vs CP and LB. The passing got tested by ISU and I was happy with how they held on cause sometimes that what you have to do. The passing started off strong against Oregon but the Ducks really whittled away at the passing line and it broke. I don't disagree with you that passing needs to improve cause it's just the truth. 2.) Your sentiment at the end where you gave a snarky "congratulations" to fans who are supporting the team while keeping it real and sharing knowledge of the game is another feature of the Hawaii fanbase on VT. Nobody said anything about being content with the team's finishes but we're fans and will support the team and try to be as constructive as possible. This "congrats for being mediocre" act is right along with what I called out the other day when I said I feel like there are a lot of Hawaii's fans who are actually ashamed to be fans of this program. I think this because so many resort to cutting down players and staff and bailing when the ship hits rough waters but quickly wanna come back aboard and when the sun comes out. That's the funny part right there! Also it's quite the exaggeration to say that Hawaii is on par with teams like Delaware, Fairfield and NIU. Delaware had a fine season but they have no top 50 wins and even suffered a few 150 sub losses. Fairfield and NIU were something like 140 and 240 respectively in the RPI this season. Side note: Aneli was a notable local recruit! My remark about “congrats” is directed towards a few in here that constantly throw shade on any other comment/criticism of the team that was not their own. Like how dare any other be unsatisfied or express any disappointments with the team..unless they fully agree..!!! there’s definitely a bunch of you that constantly try to dictate this thread and ridicule anyone who you think is not as seasoned as you in debates and volleyball logistics.. Some come here to share, talk story, joke and learn..as I do. Not to be judged/be questioned as a fan if I get upset and want to vent a loss..,the congrats is for these high Maka-Maka bullies that just try to embarrass and put down others and use the team as a scapegoat.. das why it’s always crappy vibes in here, arguing.. for the sake of arguing not discussing, just degrading Oh I’ve been a passionate Wahine Fan for some time..I’m not bailing ,so if I say “this Team stinks this season” or “the coaches piss me off” I’m bailing the ship and not a real fan? When you care a lot you get emotional… think everyone said things they might of regretted a time or two or truly didn’t really mean when they really upset and hurt ,doesnt mean I’m out and bailed on the team..just very sad/mad we lost I’ll come back once I’ve vented and cheer on the team again or am I not a fan anymore? Fairfield , NIU , Delaware was just examples how they consistently win the conference to the NCAA’s meant more so Hawaii with the RPI. But yes , it’s just my opinion that I may be see we are trending to a fill-in-the-gap puzzle piece and not a problem/factor piece in brackets anymore! And I just wanted to express my frustration my bad that I care about it
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 3, 2023 4:04:49 GMT -5
There's a few things I want to address here: 1.) In post season matches where the stage is high and the stakes are even higher, someone's passing will and needs to breakdown. It's one of the first ways you strategize against a team. Serving is dual in nature as its offensive but it is also a first line of "defense" by pulling setters off the net and making offenses easier to set up against. With that being said, I don't think anyone is saying Hawaii's passing is amazing. They had a rough go but they definitely showed some improvement the last few weeks of the season vs CP and LB. The passing got tested by ISU and I was happy with how they held on cause sometimes that what you have to do. The passing started off strong against Oregon but the Ducks really whittled away at the passing line and it broke. I don't disagree with you that passing needs to improve cause it's just the truth. 2.) Your sentiment at the end where you gave a snarky "congratulations" to fans who are supporting the team while keeping it real and sharing knowledge of the game is another feature of the Hawaii fanbase on VT. Nobody said anything about being content with the team's finishes but we're fans and will support the team and try to be as constructive as possible. This "congrats for being mediocre" act is right along with what I called out the other day when I said I feel like there are a lot of Hawaii's fans who are actually ashamed to be fans of this program. I think this because so many resort to cutting down players and staff and bailing when the ship hits rough waters but quickly wanna come back aboard and when the sun comes out. That's the funny part right there! Also it's quite the exaggeration to say that Hawaii is on par with teams like Delaware, Fairfield and NIU. Delaware had a fine season but they have no top 50 wins and even suffered a few 150 sub losses. Fairfield and NIU were something like 140 and 240 respectively in the RPI this season. Side note: Aneli was a notable local recruit! My remark about “congrats” is directed towards a few in here that constantly throw shade on any other comment/criticism of the team that was not their own. Like how dare any other be unsatisfied or express any disappointments with the team..unless they fully agree..!!! there’s definitely a bunch of you that constantly try to dictate this thread and ridicule anyone who you think is not as seasoned as you in debates and volleyball logistics.. Some come here to share, talk story, joke and learn..as I do. Not to be judged/be questioned as a fan if I get upset and want to vent a loss..,the congrats is for these high Maka-Maka bullies that just try to embarrass and put down others and use the team as a scapegoat.. das why it’s always crappy vibes in here, arguing.. for the sake of arguing not discussing, just degrading Oh I’ve been a passionate Wahine Fan for some time..I’m not bailing ,so if I say “this Team stinks this season” or “the coaches piss me off” I’m bailing the ship and not a real fan? When you care a lot you get emotional… think everyone said things they might of regretted a time or two or truly didn’t really mean when they really upset and hurt ,doesnt mean I’m out and bailed on the team..just very sad/mad we lost I’ll come back once I’ve vented and cheer on the team again or am I not a fan anymore? Fairfield , NIU , Delaware was just examples how they consistently win the conference to the NCAA’s meant more so Hawaii with the RPI. But yes , it’s just my opinion that I may be see we are trending to a fill-in-the-gap puzzle piece and not a problem/factor piece in brackets anymore! And I just wanted to express my frustration my bad that I care about it Okay, I understand. I'm all for hearing everyone's opinions but if opinions are stated shouldn't there be backing for it? Regardless, we are all fans of this program. Venting about a loss is more than okay but I don't think it's high maka-maka to offer a differing opinion and trying to be positive. Moving forward, I apologize if anything I've said about the team, program or the game of volleyball in general have offended you or made you feel put off. I want this fanbase to be more cohesive here and I know I can get really Karen up in here at times. But my questions when others state opinions are mostly in good faith and I'm just curious to know why other Hawaii posters believe what they believe.
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Post by g0bows on Dec 3, 2023 4:41:39 GMT -5
Nah it’s all good , your questioning my comments was absolutely just!! A lot of what I said was in frustration atm and deserved to be called out.. but yeah different opinion is fine but there is also a tone and wording in phrases you pick up when someone seems condescending but .. ahhh it’s ok!
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Post by ACE on Dec 3, 2023 8:49:59 GMT -5
Hawaii's main issue recently hasn't been passing and transition defense IMO. It's shaky at ties, but solid enough. The issue, IMO, is Hawaii hasn't had a terminating pin since Van Sickle in 2021. Hawaii's outside's are just under/over .200, which cannot be the norm if a team wants to make it to the Sweet 16 and beyond. Our team has literally been one bail-out terminating 6 rotation pin away from being that Top 25 team. Alexander was showing glimpses in the beginning of the season and returning to form as the season ended, but for the most part, Hawaii has just not been able to secure the kind of pin hitters the top level teams have. There's potential for Alexander, Hakas, Geursching, and Adeyemi to develop into that, but we've desperately needed a big time outside or opposite to compliment Igiede. Secondarily, Hawaii pins have been short over the last two years. It's not all about being tall, but when Hawaii faces a team like Oregon that can serve, pass, and play defense just as good as Hawaii, the physicality of a team like Oregon will tip the scale. Then again, if Hawaii'a 5'11 - 6'0 pins this season could have all hit .250 + at about 2.5 KPG to compliment Igiede and Evans, we may have won more matches and earned a higher seed. In 2021 (Washington) and 2023 (Oregon) Hawaii just didnt have the resume to avoid that second round match up after "upsetting" at SEC (Mississippi) and Big 12 (Iowa State) team. --- I have been wondering if a player like Sylvester could make the transition to the pin. I know she has the potential to be an outstanding middle, but at 6'3, physical and athletic, she could be an outstanding pin... Just a thought. Bingo! You need a pin who can score no matter the situation! I was able to watch Sylvester live a few times this season and I actually see a pin hitter in her. She just doesn't have any passing or floor D capabilities so it would make it tough for her to transition. I think Robyn has tried to recruit taller OH, they just haven't stayed here to see what they could have become. 6'4 Helvig 6'3 de Goede 6'3 Leoniak 6'5 Dimertas 6'1 Simpson (decommit)
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Post by noblesol on Dec 3, 2023 13:47:00 GMT -5
Since passing is such a difficult skill for many, I've often wondered if the technique being taught, or the training methods, are somehow off.
I've wondered if some cross-training in other sports would be helpful. For instance, give them 20 minutes a day on a softball field taking infield, with hard and soft line drives and ground balls coming at them. If they do well at that, start using baseballs. If they do well at that, put them on a football field and have them field kickoffs and punts. If they do well at that have eleven players running at them full speed to tackle them before they can secure the ball. If they do well at that have them do it at night in the rain and with gusting cross winds. Eventually, if they survive all that, their technique might not be text book, but who will care. They'll have demonstrated great spatial awareness and quick twitch smoothness of movement, an ability to read the ball and the environment and make whatever adjustment of necessity needed in the moment. Adjusting to a volleyball floating in their general direction might actually feel boring to them.
Ok, just being facetious but do tend to feel that cross training is beneficial, and that 'technique' is only helpful up to a point. Some of the best athletes are that way with technique no one would teach.
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Post by hwnstunner on Dec 3, 2023 13:54:12 GMT -5
Bingo! You need a pin who can score no matter the situation! I was able to watch Sylvester live a few times this season and I actually see a pin hitter in her. She just doesn't have any passing or floor D capabilities so it would make it tough for her to transition. I think Robyn has tried to recruit taller OH, they just haven't stayed here to see what they could have become. 6'4 Helvig 6'3 de Goede 6'3 Leoniak 6'5 Dimertas 6'1 Simpson (decommit) Yes, you can tell the philosophy at least for a bit was tall and European. But we know how that worked out. I understand the need for better passing, but as it was pointed out, Hawaii has also really needed pins that could terminate at a high clip. Both of these aspects of volleyball go hand in hand. Its kind of a chicken and the egg thing, but I thought the past two years, Hawaii was solid enough in passing ... but we haven't had a pin that could put the ball away and at least hit . 250. Don't get me wrong, passing and transition define can always get better. One pin of Van Sickle's quality could have improved the team A LOT.
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 3, 2023 14:39:48 GMT -5
Bingo! You need a pin who can score no matter the situation! I was able to watch Sylvester live a few times this season and I actually see a pin hitter in her. She just doesn't have any passing or floor D capabilities so it would make it tough for her to transition. I think Robyn has tried to recruit taller OH, they just haven't stayed here to see what they could have become. 6'4 Helvig 6'3 de Goede 6'3 Leoniak 6'5 Dimertas 6'1 Simpson (decommit) Tall doesn't always mean that they are great pin attackers. We all know what Hellvig could do. My opinion on the others: De Goede was very awkward and apart from her extra awkward but surprisingly good outing vs USC in 2021, she didn't have another strong performance. Demirtas was.....a non-factor. Leoniak maybe? But her footwork issues means that was can't adequately take the trash out in OOS situations. She has had some nice performances for NC State though. She had more minutes in 2022 but she did have a nice outing against GT this season as she had something like 18 kills against a team that is now in the Sweet 16. DNS would have been interesting and she has time to polish up. I've only seen her once for the Creighton against Nebraska and she was decent (keeping in mind who the opponent was.) Footwork is just as if not more important than the arm swing especially for pins who are the go-to, in and out of system. First step to step close, if you don't have good footwork how are you going to be able to manage your offense especially in tight situations? For analogy purposes, how would you hammer a nail if you can't get into good position to do so?
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 3, 2023 14:44:54 GMT -5
I think Robyn has tried to recruit taller OH, they just haven't stayed here to see what they could have become. 6'4 Helvig 6'3 de Goede 6'3 Leoniak 6'5 Dimertas 6'1 Simpson (decommit) Yes, you can tell the philosophy at least for a bit was tall and European. But we know how that worked out. I understand the need for better passing, but as it was pointed out, Hawaii has also really needed pins that could terminate at a high clip. Both of these aspects of volleyball go hand in hand. Its kind of a chicken and the egg thing, but I thought the past two years, Hawaii was solid enough in passing ... but we haven't had a pin that could put the ball away and at least hit . 250. Don't get me wrong, passing and transition define can always get better. One pin of Van Sickle's quality could have improved the team A LOT. BVS was really good. In my mind, she was much more than an honorable mention all-American in 2021. 3.7 kills per set hitting .268 with over 3 digs per set, over half a block per set, a primary passer, some aces to boot all while being undersized? Yeah, that would help any team. QUEENT
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 3, 2023 14:47:04 GMT -5
Since passing is such a difficult skill for many, I've often wondered if the technique being taught, or the training methods, are somehow off. I've wondered if some cross-training in other sports would be helpful. For instance, give them 20 minutes a day on a softball field taking infield, with hard and soft line drives and ground balls coming at them. If they do well at that, start using baseballs. If they do well at that, put them on a football field and have them field kickoffs and punts. If they do well at that have eleven players running at them full speed to tackle them before they can secure the ball. If they do well at that have them do it at night in the rain and with gusting cross winds. Eventually, if they survive all that, their technique might not be text book, but who will care. They'll have demonstrated great spatial awareness and quick twitch smoothness of movement, an ability to read the ball and the environment and make whatever adjustment of necessity needed in the moment. Adjusting to a volleyball floating in their general direction might actually feel boring to them. Ok, just being facetious but do tend to feel that cross training is beneficial, and that 'technique' is only helpful up to a point. Some of the best athletes are that way with technique no one would teach. 🤣 I mean, the softball one is a little intriguing. All I have to say is angles.
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Post by veebfan1111 on Dec 3, 2023 14:50:23 GMT -5
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