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Post by HOLIDAY on Dec 14, 2023 4:10:09 GMT -5
I know who would hit a volleyball better. W/ this specific example, the average power 10 middle could wreck him. oh god Rettke and Smrek are each like 2 of Hart's height, and as a short guy I'm allowed to say this lol. Bottom line, far too many generalizations made as not all men are built the same, and trans women aren't all built the same. The committed player this thread has strayed far from is only 6'0 apparently. Imo, falsely characterizing male gender assignment at birth as an automatic throw in their favor as an athlete neglects the individuals competing on either of the net (regardless of gender identity) If you believe this then why not just have women and men compete against each other? You’ve use the argument that the trans athlete is only 6 foot? What is the reason we’ve had the separation of men in women’s sports? Because it is a FACT that men are stronger and faster than women. Could the average women play professional football? Of course not. Could the average woman play NBA basketball? Of course not. To assume they are on the same level is just not having any common sense at all.And just because a man transitions does change these basic facts. And if we don’t have people with common sense trying to steer this in the right direction then you will have the ruination of women’s sports eventually. To pretend otherwise is also having no common sense. |
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Post by nederlander on Dec 14, 2023 4:12:58 GMT -5
I’m curious to know how many (if any), and in what sports, transitioning males (to female) have chosen to continue, or elected to keep playing, boys/mens sports. The debate isn’t that trans athletes are prohibited, legally denied, the right to compete in sports, but whether or not biologically-born males can compete in girls/womens sports. I’m actually surprised there isn’t more discussion about girls/females competing in boys/mens sports. I do believe that females are at a fundamental biological disadvantage, but that disadvantage is not absolute, and is often surpassed, especially on a sport by sport basis. But I do wonder what the debate would look like if the emphasis was on integrating females (biological or transitioned) into male sports, rather than transitioned males into female sports.
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Post by Cruz'n on Dec 14, 2023 4:35:38 GMT -5
I have actually read the entire thread. It actually wasn't a bad discussion until Holiday got involved. Oh well.
On most issues I consider myself progressive or liberal leaning, I have typically been opposed to those born as male competing in divisions intended only for females. Lia Thomas swimming 3 years as a male, then switching to female and winning her event in NCAA's, was egregious imo. Worse is transgender females competing in MMA, where possibility of serious injury is so high. In my sport of disc golf, we have had an issue this past year with a transgender woman in professional disc golf, who can throw farther than her female counterparts. It has caused a lot of damage in the sport.
I feel being born male gives an advantage in most sports. I'm no scientist, but it would seem that the earlier you transition, the less advantage you would have. I could be wrong.
After reading the story, my strongest feeling was of sympathy for Tate. She obviously did not transition to gain some advantage. I can only imagine the hate-storm she will now have to deal with. I feel so badly for her. The article was shameful, so disrespectful.
Although, as I have stated, that I am typically against those born as males competing as females, I try to keep an open mind, and am aware of the possibility that I could be wrong, and could be on the wrong side of history. In the case of Tate, I will be STRONGLY rooting for her success. Her mother made that video when Tate was 9 years old. So did she transition at 8? 7? I find myself having trouble standing in the way of someone who has identified as female from such a young age.
I'm sure I have a lot to learn on this issue. But I really hope that Tate weathers the storm and comes out okay, ready to focus on volleyball. If Washington ever plays at Stanford while Tate is playing, I will be sure to give her the loudest ovation I have ever given anyone!
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Post by pull3 on Dec 14, 2023 5:07:56 GMT -5
Is the truth difficult for you? Was the Lia Thomas situation fair to the women who had trained their entire lives to compete? Lea was 6'4" with a wingspan that was impressive. The sheer length and strength of a genetic male gives them a huge advantage. I tell you what shocks me the most. The people, gay and progressive especially, that have fought tooth and nail for the equal-ness and integrity of womens sports are now going down this path. If you privately asked the majority of women athletes how they feel what do you think they would say? Because you all care about women....right? Prove it.
hey stfu, don't bring my Anna into this.
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Post by HappyVolley on Dec 14, 2023 5:37:33 GMT -5
Regardless the article is clearly transphobic and disgusting  |
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Post by HappyVolley on Dec 14, 2023 5:45:22 GMT -5
OK, so the OP is just peddling standard transphobia. About a minor. Cool. A minor !?!?! OMG!!! What are your thoughts on drag shows for minors? What are your thoughts on exposing minors to nudity at pride parades? Stop clutching your pearls about a mentally ill teen being outed, especially when he and his parents want him to be outed. |
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Post by noblesol on Dec 14, 2023 5:45:49 GMT -5
Was Title IX meant to provide equality of opportunity in education and sports to males and females based on their biological sex, or their chosen gender role? The Dept. of Education since 2021 has chosen to define it expansively, as applying to chosen gender role. Their stated basis for this interpretation: "The Supreme Court has upheld the right for LGBTQ+ people to live and work without fear of harassment, exclusion, and discrimination – and our LGBTQ+ students have the same rights and deserve the same protections." www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-department-education-confirms-title-ix-protects-students-discrimination-based-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identityUntil there is a Supreme Court case or Congressional action that overrides the DOE interpretation, or a change in Executive branch political leadership that changes the DOE interpretation, biological males choosing the female gender may have DOE backing from its Civil Rights division. This issue has not been settled culturally, politically, or legally. The current Federal Executive branch interpretation has catered to a minority view that Title IX meant to define any biological male choosing to be recognized as female gender as having all the same Title IX 'civil rights' as those granted to biological women. Clearly Title IX wasn't written with this result in mind. The issue is obviously more complex and requires more consideration and balance. VT might not be a good place for this discussion. I wish that it could be, but too much politics are wrapped up in it. |
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Post by jeepers on Dec 14, 2023 5:47:19 GMT -5
The only thing I'm sure of is that this issue will be solved by people posting anonymously on the internet.
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Post by HappyVolley on Dec 14, 2023 5:50:00 GMT -5
I will say I'm adamantly opposed to transgenders ... I will say that I'm adamantly opposed to calling people "transgenders", as if they are nothing except for that one aspect of their lives. I'm also opposed to calling people "transgenders" , because transgenderism does not exist. In all of human history, two things have never happened. No man has ever become a woman. No woman has ever become a man. |
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Post by bounce22 on Dec 14, 2023 5:54:40 GMT -5
Is the truth difficult for you? Was the Lia Thomas situation fair to the women who had trained their entire lives to compete? Lea was 6'4" with a wingspan that was impressive. The sheer length and strength of a genetic male gives them a huge advantage. I tell you what shocks me the most. The people, gay and progressive especially, that have fought tooth and nail for the equal-ness and integrity of womens sports are now going down this path. If you privately asked the majority of women athletes how they feel what do you think they would say? Because you all care about women....right? Prove it. Superior nutrition? You realize we can’t buy Zombie Apple Jacks in Canada right? And I won’t even got down the jumbo turkey leg path ….. |
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Post by HappyVolley on Dec 14, 2023 5:59:58 GMT -5
I have actually read the entire thread. It actually wasn't a bad discussion until Holiday got involved. Oh well. On most issues I consider myself progressive or liberal leaning, I have typically been opposed to those born as male competing in divisions intended only for females. Lia Thomas swimming 3 years as a male, then switching to female and winning her event in NCAA's, was egregious imo. Worse is transgender females competing in MMA, where possibility of serious injury is so high. In my sport of disc golf, we have had an issue this past year with a transgender woman in professional disc golf, who can throw farther than her female counterparts. It has caused a lot of damage in the sport. I feel being born male gives an advantage in most sports. I'm no scientist, but it would seem that the earlier you transition, the less advantage you would have. I could be wrong. After reading the story, my strongest feeling was of sympathy for Tate. She obviously did not transition to gain some advantage. I can only imagine the hate-storm she will now have to deal with. I feel so badly for her. The article was shameful, so disrespectful. Although, as I have stated, that I am typically against those born as males competing as females, I try to keep an open mind, and am aware of the possibility that I could be wrong, and could be on the wrong side of history. In the case of Tate, I will be STRONGLY rooting for her success. Her mother made that video when Tate was 9 years old. So did she transition at 8? 7? I find myself having trouble standing in the way of someone who has identified as female from such a young age. I'm sure I have a lot to learn on this issue. But I really hope that Tate weathers the storm and comes out okay, ready to focus on volleyball. If Washington ever plays at Stanford while Tate is playing, I will be sure to give her the loudest ovation I have ever given anyone! You really had to go through some serious logical contortions to maintain your "progressive or liberal leaning" credentials. That was really impressive in a bizarre way. |
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Post by HappyVolley on Dec 14, 2023 6:05:57 GMT -5
Was Title IX meant to provide equality of opportunity in education and sports to males and females based on their biological sex, or their chosen gender role? The Dept. of Education since 2021 has chosen to define it expansively, as applying to chosen gender role. Their stated basis for this interpretation: "The Supreme Court has upheld the right for LGBTQ+ people to live and work without fear of harassment, exclusion, and discrimination – and our LGBTQ+ students have the same rights and deserve the same protections." www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-department-education-confirms-title-ix-protects-students-discrimination-based-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identityUntil there is a Supreme Court case or Congressional action that overrides the DOE interpretation, or a change in Executive branch political leadership that changes the DOE interpretation, biological males choosing the female gender may have DOE backing from its Civil Rights division. This issue has not been settled culturally, politically, or legally. The current Federal Executive branch interpretation has catered to a minority view that Title IX meant to define any biological male choosing to be recognized as female gender as having all the same Title IX 'civil rights' as those granted to biological women. Clearly Title IX wasn't written with this result in mind. The issue is obviously more complex and requires more consideration and balance. VT might not be a good place for this discussion. I wish that it could be, but too much politics are wrapped up in it. So DoE is using Title IX to destroy the original intent of Title IX. Great. Title IX is far from perfect and is flawed in a number of ways, but it's original intent of expanding athletic opportunities for girls and women has largely been met. I think there is a consensus that that is a good thing. What the DoE is doing is cynical and will eventually destroy those opportunities for female athletes. |
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Post by babybacksets on Dec 14, 2023 6:10:42 GMT -5
Kinda crazy going through this thread and seeing the “true colors” of a lot of regular posters on here.
And then you have the usual garbage guzzling from the likes of Holiday.
Like this is just not a topic that I can take seriously. Just watching her skills videos, Drageset looks like a fine player, can definitely help UW out of the trenches, pero like…….. Put a team of 6 Tate Dragesets up against a team of 6 Kat Plummers and that KP team is sweeping every day. I mean she’s not even touching higher than Harper Murray, Skyler Fields, and several others at that same age.
I think the thought of a “biologically male” body automatically being better than a “biological female” body at the sport of volleyball just because of the chromosomal difference on its on just doesn’t hold any weight unless you’re a transphobic, and tbh sexist, piece of dogsh!!!!!!
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Post by babybacksets on Dec 14, 2023 6:14:34 GMT -5
OK, so the OP is just peddling standard transphobia. About a minor. Cool. A minor !?!?! OMG!!! What are your thoughts on drag shows for minors? What are your thoughts on exposing minors to nudity at pride parades? Stop clutching your pearls about a mentally ill teen being outed, especially when he and his parents want him to be outed. You’re a sick sack of sh!t |
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Post by northwoods on Dec 14, 2023 6:19:00 GMT -5
Finally some clarity on why Keegan Cook bolted from Washington! Only good thing that came in the rise of MAGA and the christian right and their hatred of all things that don’t fit their narrative is that people exposed themselves as bigoted and homophobic and transphobic. Since then I’ve gone with the belief that once someone shows you who they are you should believe them. This thread has done a nice job of doing that. Wow, That’s a whole lot of labeling, hatred and vitriol for one Snide comment…. Hope you don’t bully and marginalize people in real life like that. |
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