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Post by fromonhigh on Dec 17, 2023 16:26:33 GMT -5
Hormone therapy doesn't shorten bones, reduce lung capacity, etc. that is brought about by male puberty. The point is not that some men would not be better than elite women, it is that the elite transgender athlete would be well above the elite women due to the advantages related to their once being men and going through male puberty. I don’t agree that they would be well above elite women just because they might be taller and might have better lung capacity. They might just simply be better at the sport. They might have an advantage, but there are also cis women that are naturally way taller and have better lung capacity which gives them a major advantage. Should they be excluded too? Michael Phelps had major natural advantages and there was no outrage about it. Lia Thomas, for example, won one event. She placed 5th in another and was second and tenth in two prelims. If she had such a major advantage as an elite transgender athlete, why didn’t she dominate all the events? The event she won she was well short of Katie Ledecky’s record. The fact that you use the term “CIS WOMEN” discredits your entire argument.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 17, 2023 16:36:02 GMT -5
I don’t agree that they would be well above elite women just because they might be taller and might have better lung capacity. They might just simply be better at the sport. They might have an advantage, but there are also cis women that are naturally way taller and have better lung capacity which gives them a major advantage. Should they be excluded too? Michael Phelps had major natural advantages and there was no outrage about it. Lia Thomas, for example, won one event. She placed 5th in another and was second and tenth in two prelims. If she had such a major advantage as an elite transgender athlete, why didn’t she dominate all the events? The event she won she was well short of Katie Ledecky’s record. The fact that you use the term “CIS WOMEN” discredits your entire argument. Why?
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Post by fromonhigh on Dec 17, 2023 16:36:55 GMT -5
I couldn't even read the article. There's a lot of hate on that site that's obvious on first glance. I will say I'm adamantly opposed to transgenders transgender persons born male who identify as female competing in women's collegiate sports outside of coed sports such as equestrian events, but I do understand I'm in the far minority on this site. But that site doesn't handle what is a complicated and very emotional issue for a lot of people with any kind of nuance whatsoever. Why is nuance required? For many people like myself the issue is very clear cut; there are two genders and those born male should compete in men’s sports and those born female should compete in women’s sports. This is not a position based on hate, bigotry, nor lack of knowledge and to infer otherwise is hateful and close-minded.
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Post by thevolleybaker on Dec 17, 2023 16:43:50 GMT -5
I couldn't even read the article. There's a lot of hate on that site that's obvious on first glance. I will say I'm adamantly opposed to transgenders transgender persons born male who identify as female competing in women's collegiate sports outside of coed sports such as equestrian events, but I do understand I'm in the far minority on this site. But that site doesn't handle what is a complicated and very emotional issue for a lot of people with any kind of nuance whatsoever. Why is nuance required? For many people like myself the issue is very clear cut; there are two genders and those born male should compete in men’s sports and those born female should compete in women’s sports. This is not a position based on hate, bigotry, nor lack of knowledge and to infer otherwise is hateful and close-minded. There are at least 3 sexes because intersex people exist and biological sex is not the same as gender identity.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 16:54:37 GMT -5
Why is nuance required? For many people like myself the issue is very clear cut; there are two genders and those born male should compete in men’s sports and those born female should compete in women’s sports. This is not a position based on hate, bigotry, nor lack of knowledge and to infer otherwise is hateful and close-minded. There are at least 3 sexes because intersex people exist and biological sex is not the same as gender identity. Some leading experts argue for 5 even because of the variations in intersex phenotype (e.g., mix of both male and female gonadal tissue, male sex organs with female gonads, female sex organs with male gonads). But people don’t want to think too hard to recognize sex variation because, well they’re just lazy or not smart.
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Post by fromonhigh on Dec 17, 2023 16:55:22 GMT -5
Why is nuance required? For many people like myself the issue is very clear cut; there are two genders and those born male should compete in men’s sports and those born female should compete in women’s sports. This is not a position based on hate, bigotry, nor lack of knowledge and to infer otherwise is hateful and close-minded. There are at least 3 sexes because intersex people exist and biological sex is not the same as gender identity. I agree. The occurrence of hermaphroditic infants is extremely rare and could indeed be dealt with by governing bodies. The “changing”of one’s sex via the use of drugs is the issue, particularly biological males competing in women’s sport. The issue has not arisen in men’s sport as the occurrence of biological females wishing to compete in men’s sport has not been a frequent occurrence or effected men’s sport.
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Post by HappyVolley on Dec 17, 2023 17:53:07 GMT -5
There are at least 3 sexes because intersex people exist and biological sex is not the same as gender identity. Some leading experts argue for 5 even because of the variations in intersex phenotype (e.g., mix of both male and female gonadal tissue, male sex organs with female gonads, female sex organs with male gonads). But people don’t want to think too hard to recognize sex variation because, well they’re just lazy or not smart. Leading experts or vocal activists? What you are talking about are deformations. As for thevolleybaker's comment that biological sex is not the same as gender identity, that is true. Gender identity that denies one's biological sex, is a mental disorder.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 17:57:18 GMT -5
Some leading experts argue for 5 even because of the variations in intersex phenotype (e.g., mix of both male and female gonadal tissue, male sex organs with female gonads, female sex organs with male gonads). But people don’t want to think too hard to recognize sex variation because, well they’re just lazy or not smart. Leading experts or vocal activists? What you are talking about are deformations. As for thevolleybaker's comment that biological sex is not the same as gender identity, that is true. Gender identity that denies one's biological sex, is a mental disorder. Not according to the DSM-5. But feel free to keep stating your opinions that aren’t supported by science.
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Post by staticb on Dec 17, 2023 18:15:49 GMT -5
FYI, I've been talking to an lgbt journalist friend of mine who is trying to write an article on this--and basically she can't get any information at all. The Dragset camp is quiet if she was ever offered a scholarship or walkon/and if such an offer was rescinded. And one UW source said they aren't able to comment on who they offer scholies to.
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Post by stanfordvb on Dec 17, 2023 18:45:10 GMT -5
Hormone therapy doesn't shorten bones, reduce lung capacity, etc. that is brought about by male puberty. The point is not that some men would not be better than elite women, it is that the elite transgender athlete would be well above the elite women due to the advantages related to their once being men and going through male puberty. If she had such a major advantage as an elite transgender athlete, why didn’t she dominate all the events? well thats because she was not considered an elite swimmer at all before transitioning, very average in for D1 for a male but now considered elite as a female
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 18:56:54 GMT -5
If she had such a major advantage as an elite transgender athlete, why didn’t she dominate all the events? well thats because she was not considered an elite swimmer at all before transitioning, very average in for D1 for a male but now considered elite as a female As a freshman, Lia had the 7th best time in the country in the men’s 1000 free. Definitely seems “very average” to me.
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Post by touchline on Dec 17, 2023 19:21:06 GMT -5
Why has the UW Volleyball school website removed all articles about this athlete. Unable to search for this athlete's name on the athletics website..
Are they hiding this? Is the coach gonna get heat and blackballed if this situation actually gets to Ms Tate actually playing time on the court ? I think so...
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Post by mervinswerved on Dec 17, 2023 19:23:47 GMT -5
Why has the UW Volleyball school website removed all articles about this athlete. Unable to search for this athlete's name on the athletics website.. Are they hiding this? Is the coach gonna get heat and blackballed if this situation actually gets to Ms Tate actually playing time on the court ? I think so... Because she's in high school you moron.
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Post by babybacksets on Dec 17, 2023 19:24:52 GMT -5
This thread needs to go to hell with whoever started it and all of you who are piling on the uneducated transphobia with it
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 17, 2023 19:26:27 GMT -5
Why has the UW Volleyball school website removed all articles about this athlete. Unable to search for this athlete's name on the athletics website.. Are they hiding this? Is the coach gonna get heat and blackballed if this situation actually gets to Ms Tate actually playing time on the court ? I think so... They don't have (and never have had) any articles about potential recruits on their website. Same as every other school. The only time recruits are ever identified on the website is if they sign a NLI. Same as every other school.
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